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Mike Hartley
2004-12-19, 09:44
Roy,
I don't think it's being framed so much as a territorial dispute as trying to point out that this format intimidates a substantial group of Slims target audience. It's obvious that the existing community wants the list format, but keep in mind that it is "self selecting" to those that will even take the step of registering for this type of discussion format. And I can tell you that Jason's comments are on the money when it comes to the average, casual user seeking information on the product from other users. There is a high barrier to entry--both in loss of privacy/anonimity and challenging format--to the list.

Which comes back to what another poster said: What's the purpose of the list? Is it for support, community, what? Should it appeal to the widest group possible, or only a certain "type" of person. I guess that's where the "territorial" aspect of this comes in, because the format in and of itself is a filter that creates a barrier to participating in the conversation. Since Slim makes a product that I assume they want to appeal to the widest group of customers possible, I would think that ANY barrier to getting information/participating in discussion/etc. is counterproductive.

I can tell you from my own research that there is a lot of misinformation/misunderstanding about this product out there. It's in other forums oriented towards Audio. It's in articles written about the product. People are discussing quite authoritatively how the SB does and does not work and what it will and will not do. And almost all of it is wrong. Why was I at those sites? Because I came to the SLIM site to do my own research and was met with a cumbersome format that was not intuitive and would force me to a level of participation that I didn't really want. That is assuredly NOT a good thing to hear from a potential customer.

I'm more motivated than most. I took the risk and found a rich, cool conversation. But many, many, won't take that step and will go buy something else.

Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy M. Silvernail [mailto:roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com]
Sent: Sun 12/19/2004 1:18 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Cc:
Subject: Re: [slim] The Dreaded Web Forum Conversation



Jason wrote:

>Dean has spoken on this subject and already said that the lists will
>continue to be email based but a forum is forthcoming.
>
>
Just to clarify, Dean said a forum *interface* is forthcoming. He has
wisely decided to maintain a single repository of messages, but add some
different means for accessing them. I believe this is the best decision
to make. The forum fans can see the lists as a web-based interface.
The old-schoolers can receive the lists as email. The Sage patrol can
view the lists as RSS. And if there's enough interest, I'm sure someone
can arrange a smoke signal interface.

>The hard core discussions for those who refuse to participate in a web forum
>will naturally remain here, but I suspect that the forum once up will slowly
>suck people away from the email list and we'll see a rather large number of
>shy new users who have been too intimidated by the email list show up very
>quickly.
>
>
You're framing this as a territorial dispute, and that's a bad way to
look at it. No matter how we look at the lists, the important thing is
that we look at the same lists. Presentation is a separate issue from
content. And if the content is split into multiple repositories (forum
vs. mailing list, for example), all the repositories will suffer,
because not everyone will elect to participate in all the repositories.
It will also mean duplication of effort for those who do try to cover
all the repos.

The web-forum interface is coming, but not at the expense of the email
list interface, and this is a good thing.

--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFT
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

Robin Bowes
2004-12-19, 10:41
Mike Hartley wrote:
>
> I can tell you from my own research that there is a lot of
> misinformation/misunderstanding about this product out there. It's
> in other forums oriented towards Audio. It's in articles written
> about the product. People are discussing quite authoritatively how
> the SB does and does not work and what it will and will not do. And
> almost all of it is wrong. Why was I at those sites? Because I came
> to the SLIM site to do my own research and was met with a cumbersome
> format that was not intuitive and would force me to a level of
> participation that I didn't really want. That is assuredly NOT a
> good thing to hear from a potential customer.

Roy,

Can you give us a list of these sites so we can put them straight?

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-12-19, 11:11
Mike Hartley wrote:

>Roy,
>I don't think it's being framed so much as a territorial dispute as trying to point out that this format intimidates a substantial group of Slims target audience.
>
Mike, please re-read Jason's comment:

>The hard core discussions for those who refuse to participate in a web forum
>will naturally remain here, but I suspect that the forum once up will slowly
>suck people away from the email list and we'll see a rather large number of
>shy new users who have been too intimidated by the email list show up very
>quickly.

As with many other forum proponents in this long-running argument, Jason
is advocating a web forum as a *replacement* for the existing mailing
lists.

I am encouraging all in the argument to step back, take a few deep
breaths and stop conflating the presentation with the content. Just as
with SlimServer itself, think of the mailing lists as skinnable. The
WebForum skin is coming soon. The Gmane skin is available now. And some
of us still like the CLI. Different routes, same data. And when the
WebForum skin goes live, those shy, intimidated new users need never
know they are talking to a "mailing list".

--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFT
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

Roy M. Silvernail
2004-12-19, 11:13
Robin Bowes wrote:

> Mike Hartley wrote:
>
>>
>> I can tell you from my own research that there is a lot of
>> misinformation/misunderstanding about this product out there. It's
>> in other forums oriented towards Audio. It's in articles written
>> about the product. People are discussing quite authoritatively how
>> the SB does and does not work and what it will and will not do. And
>> almost all of it is wrong. Why was I at those sites? Because I came
>> to the SLIM site to do my own research and was met with a cumbersome
>> format that was not intuitive and would force me to a level of
>> participation that I didn't really want. That is assuredly NOT a
>> good thing to hear from a potential customer.
>
>
> Roy,
>
> Can you give us a list of these sites so we can put them straight?

You'd have to ask Mike. I'm a SlimDevices bigot and never go to those
"other sites".

:D

--
Roy M. Silvernail is roy (AT) rant-central (DOT) com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFT
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com