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Squeezemenicely
2016-05-15, 06:08
Well with an ever growing music library on my NAS and ripping taking up a lot of my time - seems like I will never be finished...
I was wondering about backup and options of having my music available everywhere.

Up to now I am using an "oldschool" extra Drive for backup. But now I have started to also upload all of my music (more than 1 TB) to the Amazon Cloud Drive. It is automatically uploaded from my Synology NAS and will probably take 10 days...

Should anything happen I still have my harddrive backup, but it is comforting to think that there is a backup far away from my home, just in case.

Also I wonder if I can use the Cloud Drive for streaming my music, wherever I am - maybe even having it stream to my Squeezeboxen, but will look into this.

The price for unlimited! space is 60 dollars.

What do you think of this, what is you backup option? Already using cloud drive?

Please share your ideas, experiences.

SlimChances
2016-05-15, 11:15
For $60 you could probably buy a 2 TB HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=2+tb&N=-1&isNodeId=1) and store it at a friend's or a safety deposit box. I don't think you can stream from the cloud to a squeezebox but I may be mistaken

Squeezemenicely
2016-05-15, 12:08
Sure, drives are cheap. Good thing about online backup is, that it is constantly synced.
A manual backup not and it is not that I would want to deposit a drive at a friends house every month. Hmm it is a difficult decision, but a loss of all my digital files would be dreadful.


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reinholdk
2016-05-15, 13:02
Maybe you could deposit the extra drive at your workplace?

Don't know how syncing with the Amazon Cloud Drive works, but if it is always available like an internal drive then it is no replacement for a backup, cause then it could be too easily destroyed by accident or malware. Better to connect your backup drive for backup only.

Squeezemenicely
2016-05-15, 13:32
The Amazon Cloud Drive is a cloudspace at Amazon, you backup your files to a Datacenter where they also keep multiple backups. Therefore nothing should happen to the data, it is not a device that is constantly connected to my NAS.


I do not know how good most of you are about making backups, I am not that great at it - I often forget and something working in the Background would definitely help a lot.

reinholdk
2016-05-15, 14:17
I do not know how good most of you are about making backups, I am not that great at it - I often forget and something working in the Background would definitely help a lot.

You're right, that's typically the biggest problem with backups. Everybody knows how important it is to have, but only few actually do it regularly. So any backup you make and that you are able to restore successfully is a good thing.

The latter is again often underestimated. In the past I've once experienced a situation in our company where we wanted to restore some data and the IT department people were happily telling "no problem, we have backups" until they recognized that the backup for several days had files with zero content.

BTW, I just checked the Amazon Cloud Drive offer on amazon.de: the biggest plan is 1TB for 400/yr while on amazon.com it's unlimited for 60$/yr as you mentioned. What a discrepancy!

Shozzer
2016-05-15, 15:12
You could look at Crashplan. This allows you to back up in a variety of ways including backing up to a remote drive which could be at a friend's house or your work. It is a free service unless you select their cloud offering. If you have a lot of data you can seed a backup at home and then resume once you have moved the drive to a remote location. It works nicely for me.

JJZolx
2016-05-15, 23:34
Sure, drives are cheap. Good thing about online backup is, that it is constantly synced.

That's only really a consideration while you're originally ripping your CD library. IMO. After that, most people might buy one CD or a few CDs each week. Losing the work involved to rip, say, a dozen CDs, because you only do off-site backups once a month, isn't a giant inconvenience. And the chances of that happening, because you've lost both your main library and your on-site backup, should be extremely small.

While you're ripping your library you could manually run your backup to a local disk daily or even a couple times a day (it wouldn't really need to be 'manual' - you can easily schedule it to run). The most you'd lose if your main library was lost is a day's work.

Then, create/update an off-site backup once a month, if that.

Online backups of large media libraries are nice in theory, but in practice they don't always work very well. It can take days, weeks, even months to backup a large library given internet connection speeds available to most homes. Then there's the issue of restoring your library if anything goes wrong, which could again take many days to get things back.

Squeezemenicely
2016-05-16, 03:47
That's only really a consideration while you're originally ripping your CD library. IMO. After that, most people might buy one CD or a few CDs each week.

That is the big problem, as it looks now it is going to take me atleast another year to rip my collection, if not much longer. Seems like a neverending story.

Ripping, Scanning, Tagging especially in classical music takes forever. In Pop it is quite easy, covers and tags from dbpoweramp are usually good enough.

Well, I will see what I end up doing. Backing up to Amazon looks like it is gonna take 12 full days - slightly crazy...

Decisions, decisions ;-)

As for the pricing it is a good deal when ordered through the US Amazon site, otherwise the price is way too high (at least for me)

drmatt
2016-05-16, 11:48
I've been looking at tools for Amazon glacier for ages but never got far with setting anything up. By far the cheapest, for data, and you can (and should) encrypt it before you upload. Not suited to rapid updates though.

JJZolx
2016-05-16, 12:32
Why would anyone bother to encrypt media files to store them in the cloud? More sensitive data, sure.

JJZolx
2016-05-16, 12:38
Well, I will see what I end up doing. Backing up to Amazon looks like it is gonna take 12 full days - slightly crazy...

Are you sure about that number? How fast is your internet connection's upload speed and how much music data do you currently have? You should run some tests that last at least a few hours to gauge the true upload speed. You might also find that Amazon doesn't accept the data at anywhere near your connection speed.

If Amazon does let you upload at full speed, keep in mind that you don't want to completely swamp your upstream connection. Or you'll most likely find that it creates problems for other uses of the connection, like watching video, or even just web browsing.

Squeezemenicely
2016-05-16, 12:53
I started uploading at full speed since yesterday evening and 80 GB are already in the cloud. Amazon works at my internets full upload, so much better than other backup services I tried in the past, where it would have taken months to upload.

No problem with anything like streaming, phone etc in my home. So 1 TB and 10-12 days seems pretty much how long it is going to take. Obviously download would take about 2-3 days, but that should only happen in the worst case scenario.
Speed from Amazon S3 is even supposed to be good for hires streaming, so it would even be possible to have a sort of cloud streaming instead of using the actual files on the NAS. Just thinking, would be good for using my music in different locations.
Expandrive seems to be the tool for that.

Interesting article:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/574-cloud-storage-high-resolution-streaming-possible-practical-pricey/

drmatt
2016-05-16, 14:48
Why would anyone bother to encrypt media files to store them in the cloud? More sensitive data, sure.
I would likely not just be uploading music, so for me it's a definite. And even amongst the music there may be stuff I do not still own. Ahem. So, just for privacy sake. They don't need to know what's in there.
A small amount of paranoia does not go amiss when dealing with cloud services. :)

fuzzyT
2016-05-19, 09:14
You might want to take a look at the various online backup service
providers out there: Crashplan, Backblaze, etc. They offer good
services at reasonable prices ($50-60/year).

If you're keeping local and remote backups of multiple TBs of data,
these prices are are competitive with the costs of buying and replacing
your own backup drives.

Most of them do offer seamless encryption - their software and servers
take care of this without user intervention. Many offer to use keys
that only you hold, meaning the service can't decrypt anything without you.

There is the issue of that first big upload sync job. This does rely on
good upload speeds, or the use of "seeding" service in which you mail in
a physical drive that they'll load as the first backup set.

I've always been a roll-my-own guy, using my own drives, scripting and
scheduling native sync utilities (hooray for rsync!) and so on. But,
it's really gotten to the point where this isn't advantageous. The paid
backup providers offer great service, reasonable rates, and much more
durable protection that I can provide myself.

Take a look.

Here's a good comparative review:

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-online-backup-service/

charlesr
2016-05-19, 11:14
I'm using iBroadcast. It's free and lets you store your stuff in original quality (FLAC in my case) and get it back at the same quality later if you want to download it again. They also don't muck about with it with DRM and stuff - it's your stuff, stored. I use it for music in the car via their phone app. Currently not supporting true gapless, but they are working on it I'm told. Premium extras will come later I guess. I've been sending my suggestions to their team via email - they seem pretty keen to get feedback and ideas.

Now if someone here could just make a plugin / app that lets you stream from it (apparently their API is open and ready for people to do stuff with) to the LMS, that would be mega.

I have 2 HDDs with my FLACs on locally though too.

Dogberry2
2016-05-19, 13:22
Backups to servers outside of your control mean that your data is no longer in your control. If you don't control it, you don't own it.

I back up everything from all my home computers (my three, wife's two) as incremental backups to my own server, nightly. Weekly, the server gets backed up to another location, secure and physically offsite but still on my property and within my control. Data from phones (not much, but sometimes some photos & stuff) gets backed up on the weekend or when I figure it's necessary. All data is on physical media that belong to me, and that I can control access to. That's a personal policy for me: I retain all control and access to my property, and I don't plan on changing that policy.

usc95
2016-05-19, 14:04
I have all my music uploaded to Google Music. I am not sure if it is available to be downloaded as lossless files were I to need it but it serves as my third backup. I have my music on two computers both backed up to external drives. While Google Music isn't perfect it is there for me to use in an absolute worst case situation (like a house fire) and is absolutely free and no maintenance.

charlesr
2016-05-20, 01:00
Google music only lets you download compressed versions later, so while a useful service, it's not a backup. Take a look at iBroadcast which does all the same stuff properly (but doesn't have a shop).

mherger
2016-05-20, 02:14
> Google music only lets you download compressed versions later, so while
> a useful service, it's not a backup. Take a look at iBroadcast which
> does all the same stuff properly (but doesn't have a shop).

Simply put: don't choose a music service as a backup. Choose a storage
service. Wherever you store your files, they should just store them like
any other file. No matter what its content. A backup solution should
simply guarantee that the bytes you send are the bytes you get back at
any point in time.

If they then can play it back, downsample it etc., then that's a welcome
addition. iBroadcast claims to be able to access your Dropbox. Then you
could consider Dropbox your backup, while using iBroadcast for the fun
part of playing back the media. But don't use iBroadcast (or Google
music, or ...) as a storage.

And don't be cheap. You don't want to re-rip thousands of dollars worth
of CDs just because you were too cheap to spend a hand full of dollars a
month for the backup solution.

--

Michael

rkrug
2016-05-20, 03:09
charlesr <charlesr.7g0cpb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> Google music only lets you download compressed versions later, so while
> a useful service, it's not a backup. Take a look at iBroadcast which
> does all the same stuff properly (but doesn't have a shop).

It seems to be free - no ads - interesting.

Are you using it? is it reliable?

Looks like a nice thing.

Rainer


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rkrug
2016-05-20, 03:18
Michael Herger <slim (AT) herger (DOT) net> writes:

>> Google music only lets you download compressed versions later, so while
>> a useful service, it's not a backup. Take a look at iBroadcast which
>> does all the same stuff properly (but doesn't have a shop).
>
> Simply put: don't choose a music service as a backup. Choose a storage
> service. Wherever you store your files, they should just store them
> like any other file. No matter what its content. A backup solution
> should simply guarantee that the bytes you send are the bytes you get
> back at any point in time.

Completely agree - but having iBroadcast as a second (or third) backup
strategy seems like a good approach.

>
> If they then can play it back, downsample it etc., then that's a
> welcome addition. iBroadcast claims to be able to access your
> Dropbox. Then you could consider Dropbox your backup, while using
> iBroadcast for the fun part of playing back the media. But don't use
> iBroadcast (or Google music, or ...) as a storage.
>
> And don't be cheap. You don't want to re-rip thousands of dollars
> worth of CDs just because you were too cheap to spend a hand full of
> dollars a month for the backup solution.

--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982

atrocity
2016-05-21, 10:09
My routine:

1. Scheduled rsync backs up primary to local backup #1 once a day.

2. Scheduled rsync with --dry-run parameter compares primary to local backup #2 once per day and reports what needs to change. If the report makes sense, I manually run it without --dry-run.

3. CrashPlan running 24/7 in a dedicated Ubuntu VM.

Steps 1 and 2 give me two backups with the second NOT being prone to catastrophic auto-deletion should something go horribly wrong with primary storage.

drmatt
2016-05-21, 11:50
I used to use rsync to maintain an offsite backup - you can have it write out the change journal to a file then transport that file via USB drive (or whatever) to be later applied at the target end. But now I go for portable drives so they're not even mounted in order to be susceptible to accidental deletion..

mherger
2016-05-21, 12:31
> I used to use rsync to maintain an offsite backup - you can have it
> write out the change journal to a file then transport that file via USB
> drive (or whatever) to be later applied at the target end. But now I go
> for portable drives so they're not even mounted in order to be
> susceptible to accidental deletion..

My off-site backup is another NAS at the office. I'm using rsnapshot to
do the copying. This is a script based on rsync which adds generations
to the backup. So even if you accidentally delete a file and have the
backup replicate the deletion, you'd have an older generation on the
backup system. The same applies to files which got encrypted by some
malware and transferred to the remote NAS: there would still be an older
copy of that file.

--

Michael

JerryS
2016-05-21, 14:12
My routine:

1. Scheduled rsync backs up primary to local backup #1 once a day.

2. Scheduled rsync with --dry-run parameter compares primary to local backup #2 once per day and reports what needs to change. If the report makes sense, I manually run it without --dry-run.

3. CrashPlan running 24/7 in a dedicated Ubuntu VM.

Steps 1 and 2 give me two backups with the second NOT being prone to catastrophic auto-deletion should something go horribly wrong with primary storage.

Your post gives me the courage to confess to an act of stupidity which may serve as a warning to others. Initiating a Grsync backup session before switching on the machine containing the files to be backed up, does exactly what you say, very fast.... catastrophic deletion of files from the back up disk...... Doh.......

Jerry

earthbased
2016-05-21, 17:55
I use https://www.backblaze.com/ which has been very reliable. It is installed on my Macbook Pro and backs up mounted external drives. $55/year Unlimited.

drmatt
2016-05-21, 23:14
Your post gives me the courage to confess to an act of stupidity which may serve as a warning to others. Initiating a Grsync backup session before switching on the machine containing the files to be backed up, does exactly what you say, very fast.... catastrophic deletion of files from the back up disk...... Doh.......

Yeah, I updated all my scripts to make damn sure the source was present and mounted before the script kicked off its deletions...

atrocity
2016-05-28, 17:02
Your post gives me the courage to confess to an act of stupidity which may serve as a warning to others. Initiating a Grsync backup session before switching on the machine containing the files to be backed up, does exactly what you say, very fast.... catastrophic deletion of files from the back up disk...... Doh.......

Been there! My main rsync job (the #1 backup) is wrapped in a Perl script that counts directories on the source drive and doesn't do anything if nothing is found.

I haven't found this to be an issue since putting everything under Ubuntu, but it bit me pretty hard once when I was doing file sharing under Windows. Both Vista and 7 had a nasty habit of deciding they didn't want to share any more...

Squeezemenicely
2016-05-29, 12:16
Mission accomplished, my music is now backed up in the cloud, more than 1 TB. Amazon really has good upload speed. Now I feel a bit safer. So the worst bit is behind me, the initial upload. From now on my NAS will automatically sync with the cloud. So all is good.


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d6jg
2016-05-29, 13:22
I have just completed the seeding of a new NAS containing all my music replicated from my main NAS.
The new NAS will be moving to an offsite location next week.
Both are QNAPs and I have chosen to use their RTRR Remote Replication system.
I also run a local backup once a week.

atrocity
2016-05-31, 07:08
Mission accomplished, my music is now backed up in the cloud, more than 1 TB. Amazon really has good upload speed. Now I feel a bit safer. So the worst bit is behind me, the initial upload. From now on my NAS will automatically sync with the cloud. So all is good.

What I've learned so far about the Amazon Cloud Windows client:

1. It will not install from a "network location" (i.e., NAS). I can't imagine why that check was even put in there...and the installer just initiates a download of the real code, anyway!

2. If you're running a VPN, attempting to log on just results in a claim that the client can't connect to the Internet. As soon as you disconnect the VPN (i.e., compromise your security) it will connect. Again, I can't even imagine why that check was put in there.

3. There are no encryption options at all that I can see. Whatever you're uploading appears to be completely visible to Amazon to do with whatever they please. Or maybe it's all encrypted with some default users can't control.

4. It will fail to upload files when it deems the path name too long.

5. If you accidentally create a directory via the client, you can only delete it via the web interface.

drmatt
2016-06-01, 01:10
What I've learned so far about the Amazon Cloud Windows client:

(5 silly things)...

Sounds like a beta version...