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grazie
2016-05-13, 02:54
I've read a few articles on this and I'm non the wiser on how to make it work. I organise my media files with the following directory structure (because it makes sense to me).

<genre>/<artist>/<album>

I use both mp3 and flac media files, with all the examples below being flac. So for example I would store and tag the following albums as follows :

1. Blues - Essential Albums (2 CDs) as "../blues/Various Artists/Blues Essential Albums CD<n>" with tags "Artist"=<track artist> for each track, "Album Artist"="Various Artists" for all tracks.

2. Folk Awards 2014 (2 CDs) as "../folk-country/Various Artists/Folk Awards 2014 CD<n>" with tags "Artist"=<track artist> for each track, "Album Artist"="Various Artists" for all tracks.

3. A Rough Guide to West African Music as "../world music/Various Artists/A Rough Guide to West African Music" with tags "Artist"=<track artist> for each track, "Album Artist"="Various Artists" for all tracks.

However, none of the albums appear under artist Various Artists. The only album that does appear under Various Artist is a Michael Jackson album, which is weird especially as there are no Various Artists tags in these media files. I've also read about the Compilation tag which I don't want to use, but I'm confused as I just don't see this tag when I use mp3tag anyway. For another strange reason, Various Artists appears twice in my Artists listing, both as the first entry and in the correct location under V?

Although I can find all the above albums under Albums, I can't find any of them via Artist.

DJanGo
2016-05-13, 07:28
Hi,

tagging is one thing -> you wrote "tags" into mediafiles.
What you described is where (in which structure) you store the files.

Did you use the "guess tags from filenames"?
Did you use "one List" or "two lists" for artists? (found in the serversettings->own music pane)

grazie
2016-05-13, 08:46
Thanks for your reply. However, I don't follow the points you made.



tagging is one thing -> you wrote "tags" into mediafiles.
What you described is where (in which structure) you store the files.


I described 3 examples of CD media (bold on LHS) and how I tag them using mp3tag on the RHS. Below is the tagging for Blues - the Essential Album.

20457



Did you use the "guess tags from filenames"?
Did you use "one List" or "two lists" for artists? (found in the serversettings->own music pane)

I don't know where "guess tags from filenames" is set and I can't find it in Server Settings (I'm using Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.5), so I don't know. Also, can't find "own music pane" in Server Settings either. Do you mean the My Music tab?

20458

However, it's now clear that LMS sees the Michael Jackson album as a compilation, which is why it was listed under Various Artists. I can only assume this was because both the tags <Artist> and <Album Artist> were set to "Michael Jackson". When <Album Artist> is left blank, the album is no longer listed under Various Artists. Unfortunately, still neither is anything else. I'm guessing LMS sees "Various Artists" as some kind of special reserved label. If I use something else, perhaps my problem will be cured?

Plus, to my way of thinking, a compilation album is very different to a various artists album, so it shouldn't have be listed under Various Artists anyway.

grazie
2016-05-13, 09:16
Success!

I changed "Various Artists" to "Various" for the <Album Artist> tags and for all tracks. It means the above albums are now listed under Various. It also means that Various Artists is empty and always will be unless I set <Artist>=<Album Artist> using a tagging application (which would be a compilation album?). This seems like a bug to me, unless someone can explain otherwise.

DJanGo
2016-05-13, 10:08
I don't know where "guess tags from filenames" is set and I can't find it in Server Settings (I'm using Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.5)

its under advanced.

Since you are "new" and 7.7.5 isnt updated long long time ago - i cant see a good reason why to start with that old version. Newer versions like 7.8.1 or 7.9 are better and 7.9 scans a lot faster that any older Version.

http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/

dont use 10.0 its a complete other Software made for ui radios only!

d6jg
2016-05-13, 12:02
There is a right way to do this and a wrong way IMHO.

Ensure that you never use the compilation tag.
Tag tracks with Artist names but leave Album Artist blank.

Say you have a blues cd with tracks by Jack Bruce amongst others. Tagging as above will result in the album appearing under both Jack Bruce (clicking through will show only the Jack Bruce tracks) and Various Artists. When you look at it under albums it will be by Various Artists assuming you leave the display option as such. If you use the compilation tag it will appear under Various Artists but not under Jack Bruce.

The directory structure is irrelevant. LMS uses the tags to build its database only.

Edit. And I would also recommend 7.8.1 or 7.9.x

JJZolx
2016-05-13, 15:28
No, there is no "right' or "wrong" way to do this. However, there are some ways that work better than others given the (sometimes strange) way that Logitech Medaia Server operates. And, to a lesser extent, to how you want to make LMS operate.

What I do:

For compilation albums comprised of tracks by different artists, I tag all tracks within the album with:

ALBUMARTIST=Various Artists
COMPILATION=1

Something else that I do, so that when my albums are sorted in LMS by ARTIST/YEAR/ALBUM, is to force compilation albums to be first in the list, and when viewing artists, force 'Various Artists' to the top. That's done very easily by also adding the following:

ALBUMARTISTSORT=000

(zeroes). This is what I mean by making LMS do what you want. You may not want this behavior, and if so, just leave this out.

For non-compilations, omit the COMPILATION tag. But for compilations, the COMPILATION=1 tag is important and will affect affect how LSM classifies and lists artists.

grazie
2016-05-14, 02:46
Since you are "new" and 7.7.5 isnt updated long long time ago - i cant see a good reason why to start with that old version. Newer versions like 7.8.1 or 7.9 are better and 7.9 scans a lot faster that any older Version.

http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/

dont use 10.0 its a complete other Software made for ui radios only!

Although, I'm new to using the forum, I've been using LMS for a couple of years or more, hence the version of software I had. I've only just started to sort out my music library.

I've now downloaded and installed version 7.9. Although using Various Artists for <Album Artist> works for my example albums above, for some unknown reason the Michael Jackson is again put back under Various Artists?

grazie
2016-05-14, 02:48
No, there is no "right' or "wrong" way to do this. However, there are some ways that work better than others given the (sometimes strange) way that Logitech Medaia Server operates. And, to a lesser extent, to how you want to make LMS operate.

What I do:

For compilation albums comprised of tracks by different artists, I tag all tracks within the album with:

ALBUMARTIST=Various Artists
COMPILATION=1

Something else that I do, so that when my albums are sorted in LMS by ARTIST/YEAR/ALBUM, is to force compilation albums to be first in the list, and when viewing artists, force 'Various Artists' to the top. That's done very easily by also adding the following:

ALBUMARTISTSORT=000

(zeroes). This is what I mean by making LMS do what you want. You may not want this behavior, and if so, just leave this out.

For non-compilations, omit the COMPILATION tag. But for compilations, the COMPILATION=1 tag is important and will affect affect how LSM classifies and lists artists.

Thanks for this, but I don't see where ALBUMARTIST, COMPILATION and ALBUMARTISTSORT are set.

DJanGo
2016-05-14, 02:58
Hi,

please ask (look) in the rip /tag part of the forum.

right now there is no "good/bad" decision cause everyone uses his lib other than the next.
Except one (more) exception:p

Various Artists is a term used by lms - so dont use it.

If you have a Album with more than one artists listed its a sampler/compilation (in lms terms)
You can use the TCMP tag - but thats not a must.
You must not use the TCMP tag for nonsamplers!!!!

If you have some album like that Michael Jackson where one track is Michael Jackson feat. Rockwell (Somebody´s Watching Me) you should set albumartist to Michael Jackson that all the tracks from this album where found when searching for Michael Jackson.
Its listed under va - cause more than one artist.


The directory structure is irrelevant.

Well of curse not - in terms of how a file with proper tags is listed yes - in terms of what albumart is used when there is not embeddedartwork in it - its very important to use a unique directory structure (one album in one directory)

JJZolx
2016-05-14, 21:50
Thanks for this, but I don't see where ALBUMARTIST, COMPILATION and ALBUMARTISTSORT are set.

You'll probably need tagging software to set the tags after you've ripped the CD. Most ripping software doesn't have the ability to set arbitrary tags, plus you will almost surely need to make fixes and changes after you've ripped your CDs. Mp3tag (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/download.html) works very well on FLAC, Mp3, and most other types of audio files.

JJZolx
2016-05-14, 22:00
for some unknown reason the Michael Jackson is again put back under Various Artists?

In all likelihood, the reason is either:

(1)
There is a COMPILATION (or TCMP for Mp3 files) tag included in the files of that album. Sometimes ripping or automatic tagging programs will assign this tag to 'best of' albums from a single artist. These are "compilations" in the terminology used by many people when describing these albums, but it has a very specific meaning in LMS - an album with tracks from different artists. You'll need to remove the tag if it exists.

or

(2)
There is some variation in the list of artists (there can be more than one on a track) between the different tracks on the album. That could include a misspelling, even a variation in the capitalization of a name (LMS is case-sensitive in that regard). In a given album, all of the ARTIST and ALBUMARTIST tags must be identical or LMS will automatically think it has different artists and classify it as a compilation ('Various Artists') album.

drmatt
2016-05-15, 03:14
Case sensitivity does make life difficult, particularly with auto tagging from online dbs. Bad enough dealing with all the variants of "and".

grazie
2016-05-16, 13:08
As stated in my first post, I use Mp3tag. I even gave an image snapshot as an example of how I've used it in my third post. I also stated that all the example media were flac.

If the term ALBUMARTIST equates to <Album Artist> column in Mp3tag, I can follow. However, I have never seen anything resembling COMPILATION or ALBUMARTISTSORT in Mp3tag or elsewhere.

DJanGo
2016-05-16, 13:15
However, I have never seen anything resembling COMPILATION or ALBUMARTISTSORT in Mp3tag or elsewhere.

Thats the big issue from all of these gui tag tools - you may can add (to see) these extra tags - they didnt show all used tags.
Google mp3tag and the bold phrase above to solve it.

JJZolx
2016-05-16, 13:58
As stated in my first post, I use Mp3tag. I even gave an image snapshot as an example of how I've used it in my third post. I also stated that all the example media were flac.

If the term ALBUMARTIST equates to <Album Artist> column in Mp3tag, I can follow. However, I have never seen anything resembling COMPILATION or ALBUMARTISTSORT in Mp3tag or elsewhere.

Yes, it's labeled 'Album Artist' in Mp3tag.

The section (by default located on the left) that looks like a form in Mp3tag is called the 'Tag Panel'. To see the field/tag names that each of the fields is bound to, got to Tools > Options > Tag Panel. Double-click any of the names shown in the list and you can see how the field is defined. In these options you can also easily add additional fields to the Tag Panel.

For ALBUMARTISTSORT, I created one with these settings:

Field: ALBUMARTISTSORT
Name: Album Artist Sort:

For the COMPILATION field:

Field: COMPILATION
Name: Compilation:

I also created these fields for my convenience. In general, fields that are often applied to a full album (or disc) are most conveniently set using the Tag Panel rather than having to individually set them for every file in an album.

Field: ARTISTSORT
Name: Artist Sort:

Field: DISCNUMBER
Name: Disc Number:

Field: TOTALDISCS
Name: Disc Total:

You should also (just for your own understanding) have a look at Mp3tag's Help page for Tag field mappings (http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html). Within Mp3tag use the field names shown in the 'Name in Mp3tag' column. For FLAC files, those names are used as-is (with a couple of small exceptions), and for Mp3 files with ID3v2 tags, the name should be mapped to the correct field name. For example, for Mp3 files with ID3v2 tags, you can just use 'COMPILATION' and it will automatically be mapped to the correct TCMP field. That's a really nice thing about Mp3tag, since then you don't have to worry so much about the file type that you're working with.

Then . . .

The area in Mp3tag containing columns and rows showing individual files is called the 'File View'. You can also edit and add to the columns by right-clicking anywhere in the column header bar and selecting 'Customize columns...' I don't remember if there are default columns for either COMPILATION or ALBUMARTIST, but similar to working with the Tag Panel, you can easily create them.

My COMPILATION column looks like:

Name: Compilation
Value: %compilation%
Field: COMPILATION
Sort by: <blank>

grazie
2016-05-16, 14:59
Thanks. it's beginning to become clear.

BJW
2016-05-17, 17:40
you def want to read the wiki links in my sig.

in addition, there is a bug in LMS where out of the box it hides things which have a string conflict, bug 9523. anything that says "Various Artists" won't show, b/c thats the out of the box string LMS uses for comps.

i would also set TPE2 to be treated as ALBUM ARTIST by LMS.

as mentioned earlier, there is a big difference between tags in files, and file/folder locations. i set LMS to never guess based on folder/filename.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=345521

Mnyb
2016-05-17, 21:12
In many tag tools like mp3tag and puddletag there is a rigth click option to see all the tags , not only those with defined fields in the main GUI , believe me there are lots of tags as there is no enforced standard , any one can just invent one , therefore a gui can not have a field for everyone of them...

d6jg
2016-05-18, 10:49
In mp3tag you may find what you are missing in "extended tags" accessed from the menu, a right click or with Alt+T

You can also tell mp3tag which tags to display in the LH pane.

ArtistSort is one I display as if even one track has an ArtistSort of say Jackson, Micheal that everything by Michael Jackson will appear under J not M. That may be how you want it but ....

JJZolx
2016-05-18, 11:03
I don't know where "guess tags from filenames" is set and I can't find it in Server Settings (I'm using Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.5), so I don't know. Also, can't find "own music pane" in Server Settings either. Do you mean the My Music tab?

In the web interface it can be found at Settings > Advanced > Formatting > Guess Tags Formats. Clear all of the strings shown and hit 'Apply' and LMS will no longer attempt to pull tags from the folder or file names.