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rkrug
2016-03-31, 02:12
Hi

I really love iPeng, but there is one thing I am really missing: offline
playing of music. Is there any possibility to add this feature? I would
be prepared to buy this as an add on for iPeng.

Thanks,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982

pippin
2016-03-31, 07:05
As said before: it's still on my to-do-list and I definitely want to do it.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as on Android where you can just download tracks and throw them at the system player, iPeng would also have to implement a full player by itself.
One particular difficulty is the expectation of iPeng users about what this "offline playing" would look like. I've asked a lot of those who are asking for this feature and the primary response was that they expect it to show similar behavior as with the current Squeezebox playback, so providing lots of metadata, support for all the formats, gapless, replay gain, extended search etc.
It will never be possible to do all of the same functionality because a lot of that requires the whole database LMS provides and probably a range of plugins to be available but even having just a somewhat similar experience is more than just launching the stock iOS functionality on a list of downloaded tracks which makes it a lot of work.

It will come, but not in the next few months. Hopefully still this year.

epoch1970
2016-03-31, 07:31
Reminds me of this guy who years ago launched an app that would take what was playing on the iphone music app and run it in LMS when entering in range of a known LMS server on wifi.
Terrific idea, I bought the modestly priced app immediately. But most of the time it wouldn't work, I think the guy dropped the project.

I for one, have really no particular love for the music player in the iPhone. I would switch to using iPeng all the time in a jiffy if offline mode was available.
And considering the native music app will only accept AAC or ALAC (and mp3?) when most of my library is FLAC and the remaining part in mp3, I could accept the constraint of converting (duplicating) part of my library to AAC, and have iPeng local mode work off a library view.
(what I have now is worse: a few albums converted to ALAC in iTunes on my desktop machine.)

In any case, my phone was the expensive expansive 16GB iPhone 4, I'm set to move to the new "made for the emerging markets" SE in 16GB. And my music lib is about 500GB.

You can do it Pippin! Make us pay through our nose for this new feature ;)

EDIT: There we go, way back in 2011: ANNOUNCE: SqueezeSync for iOS (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?92425-ANNOUNCE-SqueezeSync-for-iOS). I see you were there too, Pippin ;)

pippin
2016-03-31, 08:03
Just one thing (ok, OT): don't buy a 16GB iPhone. Just don't. No "but I don't need... Because...". You do.need.more.space.

rkrug01
2016-03-31, 08:25
Le jeudi 31 mars 2016, pippin <pippin.7dgawn (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
a Γ©crit :

>
> Just one thing (ok, OT): don't buy a 16GB iPhone. Just don't. No "but I
> don't need... Because...". You do.need.more.space.
>
>
Absolutely!!!

>
>
> ---
> learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
> and
> Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
> at penguinlovesmusic.com
> *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch*
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105408
>
>

epoch1970
2016-03-31, 08:43
Thanks guys, I've looked up a few reports and now I see the problem.
I guess 32 gigs would have been fine for my use of the phone, but obviously Apple knows that!

rkrug
2016-03-31, 08:51
pippin <pippin.7dg87z (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> As said before: it's still on my to-do-list and I definitely want to do
> it.
> Unfortunately, it's not as simple as on Android where you can just
> download tracks and throw them at the system player, iPeng would also
> have to implement a full player by itself.

The beauty of iOS... But as a user, I simply love it.

> One particular difficulty is the expectation of iPeng users about what
> this "offline playing" would look like. I've asked a lot of those who
> are asking for this feature and the primary response was that they
> expect it to show similar behavior as with the current Squeezebox
> playback, so providing lots of metadata, support for all the formats,
> gapless, replay gain, extended search etc.

Effectively a cache for the music, so that the source is not the LMS,
but the local cache when offline. Usage should be the same for online or
offline, only a button which I can switch (or automatic if no connection
to a LMS server is available) if I want to use offline mode.

And upload to the iOS device only via LMS is perfectly fine with me.

> It will never be possible to do all of the same functionality because a
> lot of that requires the whole database LMS provides and probably a
> range of plugins to be available but even having just a somewhat similar
> experience is more than just launching the stock iOS functionality on a
> list of downloaded tracks which makes it a lot of work.

I can imagine - but you can do it!

>
> It will come, but not in the next few months. Hopefully still this year.

Hopefully - I am really looking forward to abandoning iTunes player and
VOX for good.


Rainer

>
>
>
> ---
> learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
> and
> Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
> at penguinlovesmusic.com
> *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch*
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105408
>
>

rkrug
2016-03-31, 08:56
epoch1970 <epoch1970.7dgcrb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> Thanks guys, I've looked up a few reports and now I see the problem.
> I guess 32 gigs would have been fine for my use of the phone, but
> obviously Apple knows that!

I am sure they do. But I stand to be corrected, I think there is only a
16GB and a 64GB version - go for the 64GB.

>
>
>
> 4 SB 3 • Libratone Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • Squeezebox Server
> 7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by
> bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
> Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
> Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
> Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
> Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> epoch1970's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16711
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105408
>
>

pippin
2016-03-31, 09:47
Thanks guys, I've looked up a few reports and now I see the problem.
I guess 32 gigs would have been fine for my use of the phone, but obviously Apple knows that!


I am sure they do. But I stand to be corrected, I think there is only a
16GB and a 64GB version - go for the 64GB.

Indeed. It's actually really an issue.
I bought a 16GB iPad once (one of the first retina minis) and that thing has tons of issues. Apps crashing all the time, update problems and so on.
The issue is photos. Apple just doesn't know how to do services right so their photo library syncs photos to the device until all memory is used up and since Apps have no good way to safeguard against lack of disc space all kind of actions fail due to the lack of memory.

On a new iPhone with the high resolution camera and the live photos you don't even need the photo library for that because a few images you shoot alone will quickly use up all these 16GB.

And then you don't have to care about offline sync features anymore because you won't have any space left to sync music to :D


pippin <pippin.7dg87z (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:
[color=blue]
Effectively a cache for the music, so that the source is not the LMS,
but the local cache when offline. Usage should be the same for online or
offline, only a button which I can switch (or automatic if no connection
to a LMS server is available) if I want to use offline mode.


Yep. You see. And that's EXACTLY the reason why I didn't implement it so far. That's what people expect.
But all that playback control (plus all the plugin functionality around it) is normally managed by LMS, a server with 10 years of development history and man years over man years of development having gone into it and it's plugin ecosystem.
Replicating all that in iPeng is way beyond what I can deliver so even an MVP is probably a massive piece of work given the expectations...

Mnyb
2016-03-31, 12:28
Considering it's a portabel device , make the server transcode the tracks to 256k AAC or MP3 before storting them on the phone .
So then the player only needs to support one format .

I would not expect to play my only DSD file natively ;)

Yes a great deal of the meny system is server generated almost all of it ? It's not that obvious to us non programmers .
And it scales and provides artwork of the rigth sizes etc .

But just to generate artist and album and genre menus locally on the phone etc ... I can imagine that some simplification is needed what about search ? probably not .

I would gladly accept some kind of local albums menu :)

The now playing list , that one is also server generated ? You have to make local version of that to .

I can start to see why you haven't done this . I though about for 5 minutes and potential issues comes up faster tag I can type !

pippin
2016-03-31, 13:01
Considering it's a portabel device , make the server transcode the tracks to 256k AAC or MP3 before storting them on the phone .
So then the player only needs to support one format .

Well, that's not what everybody expects. Some people expect to be able to play the lossless formats directly. Which is actually easier to do.
Also: the server can not transcode to AAC, only mp3 and that doesn't work on probably >50% of the server installations, too.



I would not expect to play my only DSD file natively ;)

Actually I plan to add that anyway :)



Yes a great deal of the meny system is server generated almost all of it ? It's not that obvious to us non programmers .
And it scales and provides artwork of the rigth sizes etc .

All metadata (title, artist, album,...)
It does 100% of the playback control, too.
Setting up streams, play/pause/shuffle/replay gain/fade/.... too.



But just to generate artist and album and genre menus locally on the phone etc ... I can imagine that some simplification is needed what about search ? probably not .

That's a big issue. Actually I do have a nice idea how that could be done locally in a limited way but then people will ask to be able to search from context menus, they're going to want BMF, and and and. I know what people prioritize, it's something else for everyone, expectations are high and diverse.



The now playing list , that one is also server generated ? You have to make local version of that to .

It's not only server "generated", it lives on the server. What you see in the App is part of the relevant information for display purposes but the list itself can't even be fully exported because it's essentially links to the actual elements. Then there can be offline tracks for which you only have a URL and so on...



I can start to see why you haven't done this . I though about for 5 minutes and potential issues comes up faster tag I can type !
Bingo :)

d6jg
2016-04-01, 11:56
Thinking about this (which I previously thought I would like to see as well) I now think that due to the storage problems on iThingy's generally a better solution for those of us that go mobile with insufficient bandwidth to connect to home would actually be a pocket LMS server with wifi that the iThingy and iPeng could connect to. This would also work for Droid users.
We can't be far off making this possible with a Pi, a wifi dongle and a battery pack.

EDIT not sure how this would work on a plane though?

pippin
2016-04-01, 12:17
Well, you can now use WiFi on planes.
That said, I have actually even used the real thing with internet connection to my server at home from an intercontinental fligth. Times are changing.

d6jg
2016-04-01, 12:41
Well, you can now use WiFi on planes.
That said, I have actually even used the real thing with internet connection to my server at home from an intercontinental fligth. Times are changing.

I am sure you did manage to make a connection via VPN but I can't imagine it was stable for very long? If I try in the car yes I can get a VPN to the server working over 4g but I only get perhaps 5-10 mins of stability before it crashes.

pippin
2016-04-01, 12:59
No, I was actually surprised how well it worked. I also used the VPN to access other services on my home server, too.
I was especially surprised because I always thought VPNs don't work well through sat Internet due to the extremely high latency and because pipelining doesn't work with VPNs.

d6jg
2016-04-01, 14:04
No, I was actually surprised how well it worked. I also used the VPN to access other services on my home server, too.
I was especially surprised because I always thought VPNs don't work well through sat Internet due to the extremely high latency and because pipelining doesn't work with VPNs.

I am surprised. I would have expected the latency to have been excessive as well.

Just as an aside - PPTP, L2TP, IPSec or IKEv2 ?

pippin
2016-04-01, 14:08
To be fair for iPeng it's not that much of an issue since the CLI over cometd allows for pipelining anyway (on the protocol level and even with out of order replies). And for streaming latency is not a big issue since the music gets cached anyway.
Other services, especially complex web pages, are more demanding.