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mrMuppet
2016-03-21, 13:35
Hi,

i'm using a touch with a Yamaha AVR (connected via ethernet) and a standalone radio (connected via wlan). My server is Version: 7.9.0 - 1423065676. Due to the known issues of digital receivers i've had to sync them with two mics and a recorder (Found out it was exactly 178 ms). Now both boxes are really in sync.

But the very first 1-2 sec after starting the music (and sometimes when a new song starts) the Radio is really out of sync... 150ms ... its always gone after some secs. I tried to change the starting delay time. Then the radio starts later but the first sec. are still out of sync.

What can i do? Any idea?

mrMuppet
2016-03-22, 11:44
This morning the boxes where complete out of sync again. The delay-setup seemed to be ok. Now after checking it up the new best delay is 69ms and the ansyncroneous starts of the radio are gone. Don't know what changed, but now its all better than yesterday. Hope it doesn't change again.

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 01:24
After some days: The Sync-delay is changing nearly everyday: its always 137ms or 69ms. but i can't find out why it is changing.

Do you have any idea why its doing it? How can i find out?

bpa
2016-03-25, 02:52
How can i find out?

Enable player.sync logging.

Is radio audio synced with audio from Touch analog output ? If so then problem is with AVR being variable..

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 03:07
Touch is connected via optical out. Avr is always in the same settings (via preset)

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bpa
2016-03-25, 05:40
Touch is connected via optical out. Avr is always in the same settings (via preset)

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To get ahandle on the issue you need to narrow down where the problem lies. So I am asking you to do a test:

Is radio audio synced with audio from Touch when using Touch analog output ?

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 06:00
It is not in sync if I set the delay to zero. But I don't know if it changes the delay like it does in digital mode.

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bpa
2016-03-25, 06:05
It is not in sync if I set the delay to zero. But I don't know if it changes the delay like it does in digital mode.

You may have messed up LMS sync by changing various setting. Use default LMS sync settings for both players ( 0 start delay, 0 audio delay, 10ms sync adjust, 2ms network packet latency), restart LMS and then check is RAdio audio is in sync with Touch audio from analog output.

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 06:08
That's not the problem. I already checked the perfect delay time: 69 and 178ms. But it changes from time to time which value is the perfect match. That change of the value is what I would like to stop.

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bpa
2016-03-25, 06:25
That's not the problem. I already checked the perfect delay time: 69 and 178ms. But it changes from time to time which value is the perfect match. That change of the value is what I would like to stop.

YOu have already decided where the problem is. I need to confirm that, If you don't answer my questions I cannot help you.

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 07:49
Sorry. I don't wanted to criticize your help. I am happy that you offer me that help!
I was using the exact default settings for the last three years (before that I used an analog receiver without sync problems) . With the new avr Audio digital has had a big delay, analog a smaller delay and if I changed the av-receicer to pure-direct mode it was not perfect but ok. But I can not use Subwoofer in pure mode. So I decided to measure the delay with with two microphones an a digital recorder. I changed only the delay on the touch. All other settings are default.

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bpa
2016-03-25, 09:15
I'd like to simplify the test setup.

Do you "see" this fluctuation by using both the analog and digital output of Touch and touch not synced.

Can you play audio on Touch (not synced with Radio) - audio on Touch Analog output and through AVR using Touch Digital output and then use your mics to measure difference and is it always constant ?

Make sure Player/Audio setting for "Audio startup time" is zero.

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 09:53
I will try it on Tuesday (because I don't own these mics).
But I can't use analog and digital at the same time so I can't measure the delay between. I will have to measure the difference between the radio and both different touch modes (analog and digital).

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bpa
2016-03-25, 11:13
But I can't use analog and digital at the same time

Why not ? I can play music on my Touch and the analog and digital outputs both work and output the same audio simultaneously.

mrMuppet
2016-03-25, 11:44
Yes, but the receiver can't output two sources simultaneously. Would need a mixer..

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toby10
2016-03-26, 03:02
Yes, but the receiver can't output two sources simultaneously. Would need a mixer..

Doesn't need to, you can switch between inputs on the receiver to compare.

bpa
2016-03-26, 03:28
Doesn't need to, you can switch between inputs on the receiver to compare.

OP has a a new AVR (no problem with sync on old AVR) and there is a problem that when synced the delay AVR and radio varies by either 137ms or 69ms. The OP is trying to solve this problem by adjusting sync delay settings. While it is likely to be an AVR issue - I suggested a setup to remove sync from the setup so that the if it is an AVR issue - the problem can be isolated.

Do you think by toggling input the user will be able to detect such small timing differences ?

toby10
2016-03-27, 04:16
Do you think by toggling input the user will be able to detect such small timing differences ?

Possible, yes. If one input is in Sync (or much closer Sync) than the other, then that input is delayed. AVR is likely doing additional processing. But I agree with you, removing Sync all together to isolate the issue.