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View Full Version : Roon, a SqueezeBox ecosystem alternative ?



volpone
2015-07-27, 13:15
Hi all,
I’m a quite 10 years SqueezeBox ecosystem happy user.

I own a medium size music library (7000 albums mainly classical), running LMS 7.9 on a ReadyNAS which also hosts Plex Media Server and my film library. I use mainly SBT's and SB3 devices feeding external DAC’s along with SqueezePlay / SqueezeLite players on various computers in my home.

I’m also using excellents Erland’s Custom Plugins, Pippin’s Ipeng and Mherger’s Smartmix and gain access to TIDAL HIFI with no issues via ickStream (thank's all three for the very good work and user support, also for the global "vision" and cleaver expression !!!)

LMS and plugins are now quite robust and stable. i like the ecosystem but due to the current situation (Logitech fail, lack of hardware evolution) i’m interested in planning my future audio system (hard and soft) for the next years with two main goals:


1) Sound Quality enhancement: Squeeze devices replacement by more "high-end" audio streamers. Using http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102496-announce-squeeze2upnp-a-bridge-between-LMS-and-uPNP-devices might be a solution ?


2) Global User Experience enhancement: Better navigation, UI, Metada agregation, seamless integration between local data and streaming services. About that i've read some positive chronicles on the emerging non UPnP solution Roon from Roonlabs, https://roonlabs.com/


AudioStream: http:/www.audiostream.com/content/roon ... wmhhE3z.97 (http://www.audiostream.com/content/roon-music-player-and-streaming-software#U71O7ktA8wmhhE3z.97)
Computer Audiophile: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-s ... are-23986/ (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-labs-software-23986/)
and also with video: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conte ... n-through/ (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/640-roon-roon-labs-video-run-through/)
Hifi-Advice: http://www.hifi-advice.com/Roon-review-1.html
Digital Audio Review: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/ ... ng-on-the/ (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/roon-review-part-1-walking-on-the/)
Tone Audio: http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/roon-is-here-worlds-first-in-depth-review/

IMHO key point is if they will be successful in deploying RoonSpeakers protocol to audio hardware vendors (network streamers, DAC, modern integrated "connected" amps) witch are currently only using UPnP / DLNA (and sometimes Airplay and Songcast) protocols.

I’m interested in feedback and discussion about potential Roon alternative from Squeezebox users point of view.
According to https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043 SqueezeBox devices support might be "planned" by RoonLabs ?

Regards
Volpone

Giza2020
2015-07-28, 02:30
Will keep an eye on this and add input over on the roon forum.

Really only currently interested in a solution which utilises my existing sb duet and boom plus squeezelite using hifiberry and all can be sync'd together.

So there could be something here. ..quite a price tag but if it works and incorporates spotify and a few other things then I'd be interested

Julf
2015-07-28, 04:24
Sound Quality enhancement: Squeeze devices replacement by more "high-end" audio streamers.

Just use an external DAC.


IMHO key point is if they will be successful in deploying RoonSpeakers protocol to audio hardware vendors (network streamers, DAC, modern integrated "connected" amps) witch are currently only using UPnP / DLNA (and sometimes Airplay and Songcast) protocols.

Do we need another proprietary protocol?

volpone
2015-07-28, 04:42
Just use an external DAC.

I do ... also agree with you than from SQ point of view streaming functions are less important than DAC.

Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic, Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.


Do we need another proprietary protocol?

That's my point ....

Julf
2015-07-28, 04:46
Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic, Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.

Archimago, are you listening? :)

Julf
2015-07-28, 04:48
Interested in ABX blind tests between, for example, SBT (spdif digital output) , and near 2000$ top end UPnP streamers (Bel Canto, Auralic, Moon Mind ... ) with the same good DAC.

Just curious, what do you think could/would cause any difference in the sound?

volpone
2015-07-28, 05:04
Just curious, what do you think could/would cause any difference in the sound?

Price ?
Sorry but that's also my point.:)

Audiophiles magazines and fora are full of reviews about such huge "differences" but technically i'm quite curious about the reasons ...

Julf
2015-07-28, 05:23
Price?

That would indeed be the most important difference. The other being a heavy, airspace-grade milled aluminium enclosure... :)


Audiophiles magazines and fora are full of reviews about such huge "differences" but technically i'm quite curious about the reasons ...

If there weren't huge "differences", why would we need audiophile magazines and fora? :)

volpone
2015-07-28, 11:25
Following a discussion (copied from http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102496-announce-squeeze2upnp-a-bridge-between-LMS-and-uPNP-devices&p=825399&viewfull=1#post825399)
This discussion i have today with philippe_44 is about LMS /UPnP/ Roon and architecture & protocols comparaison.
In some aspects this in line with an interesting 2012 old thread about LMS / UPnP see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?95603-What-if-Logitech-pulls-the-plug


Hi philippe_44,

Sorry because it is a little "off topic", but i appreciate your work and expertise in linking SqueezeBox ecosystem to UpNp renderers devices witch are sadly the only "high end" alternative to Squeeze audio devices.


What do you think about Roon from Roonlabs emerging solution, see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104044-Roon-a-SqueezeBox-ecosystem-alternative
And also what about Roonlabs UPnP criticism, see https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-wrong-with-upnp/2101/5



I don't know Roon well enough, but I'll look at it out of curiosity. About UPnP flaws, I agree this is very painful to deal with. I think there are 2 reasons.

- It tries to do everything and to accommodate all the different industry vendors. As a result, this is the "camel = a race horse designed by a committee" problem.
- There is no really good interoperability certification/validation so basically it is a jungle of non-interworkable devices (servers, control point, renderers).

Working myself is systems that rely heavily on standards, I know how important it is to make the specification simple (don't offer 3 methods to do the same thing just to please vendors), avoid ambiguity as much as possible and because there are always ambiguities, then organize a very strong validation/certification system. The amount of renderer variations I had to deal with for my simple application is simply amazing ... I could also add that I think UPnP misses at least one very important feature for me: audio synchronization (UPnP 2.0 does but nobody seems to adopt it)

About the thread, I read it quickly. Some statements wrt UPnP pain points are correct I think, but there was a long discussion that showed misunderstanding of what are network transport, sampling and clock rates and how they are (not) related, so I stopped a bit at that point as it is difficult to follow an argument where some of the initial hypothesis are wrong.

I am personally, to be honest, satisfied with what I have from ex-Logitech. I'm a tinkerer, so I do my own PCB, 3D prints and software, so with squeezelite and RaspberryPi, it is easy to transform any other device/speaker into a LMS system, fully integrated, even if (unfortunately) Logitech does not develop any more hardware. It was a difficult learning curve, but I now know squeezelite very well so I can fix it if needed. What I'm still frustrated with is not being successful to synchronize my Sonos with squeezeboxes, but I'm still working on it, it will just be a lot of work ;-) If I can make that work, then that would give me all I want in term of tinkering possibilities as well as pre-made good looking devices (as you can guess, I'm not an audiophile high end guy).

I don't know Roon well enough, but I'll look at it out of curiosity.
Thank you Philippe, interested in your feedback especially on RoonSpeakers.



About UPnP flaws, I agree this is very painful to deal with. I think there are 2 reasons.


- It tries to do everything and to accommodate all the different industry vendors. As a result, this is the "camel = a race horse designed by a committee" problem.
- There is no really good interoperability certification/validation so basically it is a jungle of non-interworkable devices (servers, control point, renderers).


Working myself is systems that rely heavily on standards, I know how important it is to make the specification simple (don't offer 3 methods to do the same thing just to please vendors), avoid ambiguity as much as possible and because there are always ambiguities, then organize a very strong validation/certification system. The amount of renderer variations I had to deal with for my simple application is simply amazing ... I could also add that I think UPnP misses at least one very important feature for me: audio synchronization (UPnP 2.0 does but nobody seems to adopt it)
Very interesting !



About the thread, I read it quickly. Some statements wrt UPnP pain points are correct I think


The LINN extensions (aka OpenHome) solve a lot of functional problems (Gapless playback, playlist management ..) isnt'it ?


The point about the lack of "brain" in UPnP architecture seems real for me. The application logic is in the server but also in the control point and sometimes in the renderer.
How such a model could be effective to manage huge library with a lot of metadata ? For example the Lumin IOS app (one of the best today) use MinimServer for the tag tree but all the database management is running on the IPAD. I would prefer a true client / server model like SqueezeBox / LMS.



but there was a long discussion that showed misunderstanding of what are network transport, sampling and clock rates and how they are (not) related, so I stopped a bit at that point as it is difficult to follow an argument where some of the initial hypothesis are wrong.


I'm interested in comparing the different protocols and architecture UpnP / AirPlay / SongCast / LMS (slim) / RoonSpeakers with a not too deep technical approach but to understand the main differences and pros and cons.
Any link ? Any schematics ?



I am personally, to be honest, satisfied with what I have from ex-Logitech. I'm a tinkerer, so I do my own PCB, 3D prints and software, so with squeezelite and RaspberryPi, it is easy to transform any other device/speaker into a LMS system, fully integrated, even if (unfortunately) Logitech does not develop any more hardware. It was a difficult learning curve, but I now know squeezelite very well so I can fix it if needed. What I'm still frustrated with is not being successful to synchronize my Sonos with squeezeboxes, but I'm still working on it, it will just be a lot of work ;-) If I can make that work, then that would give me all I want in term of tinkering possibilities as well as pre-made good looking devices (as you can guess, I'm not an audiophile high end guy).


I like too the LMS ecosystem but even if i'm not a true "Audiophile" i care about sound quality and above all user experience as a "melomane".
In this aspect Roon seems interesting for a classical music lovers who like to "discover" new musics.

philippe_44
2015-07-28, 11:32
As a continuation of http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102496-announce-squeeze2upnp-a-bridge-between-LMS-and-uPNP-devices&p=825439&viewfull=1#post825439


The LINN extensions (aka OpenHome) solve a lot of functional problems (Gapless playback, playlist management ..) isnt'it ?

Seems to although UPnP offers gapless. Not all players implement it though and all seems to do it a bit differently. Still, there is no smart transition option.


The point about the lack of "brain" in UPnP architecture seems real for me. The application logic is in the server but also in the control point and sometimes in the renderer.
How such a model could be effective to manage huge library with a lot of metadata ? For example the Lumin IOS app (one of the best today) use MinimServer for the tag tree but all the database management is running on the IPAD. I would prefer a true client / server model like SqueezeBox / LMS.

That I agree. In fact, I personally never heavily used UPnP/DLNA because of the interoperability problem but also because it is totally unusable as soon as you have any large library, the control point discovery phase takes forever. I know some are happy with various CP like BubbleUPnP. I can't say that I've used it much, so I'm not talking out of experience, but everytime I tried, I gave up quickly compared to what LMS + iPeng gave me in term of UE. To some extend, and at the risk of creating some angst, the strength of LMS (having a central server) is also a weakness, especially relying on a home computer (assuming not using mysqueezebox.com) is the complicated and unreliable part for non-technical users. I'm sitting here at the home of friends that have a LMS system but don't use it because of this complexity. They moved to Sonos just because the installation and management is much easier for a non technical person. I've tried to revive LMS by installing it on a cubieboard2 so that they don't have to rely on a big, always-on, crashy computer. Having said that, the openess of LMS makes it a much more powerful solution than Sonos (I can testify that on my own plugin development and current pain with Sonos)



I'm interested in comparing the different protocols and architecture UpnP / AirPlay / SongCast / LMS (slim) / RoonSpeakers with a not too deep technical approach but to understand the main differences and pros and cons.
Any link ? Any schematics ?

Not really above what can be found on the web. As you pointed out, AirPlay and LMS assume pretty basic clients and the server/cp has to do the job. UPnP has this tri-component complexity that makes difficult to have many CP, I think. LMS and UPnP expect the client to integrate the codec which make thing complicated sometimes, especially if you want a large ecosystem of vendors (but that's not the case for LMS). I also think that the client side of UPnP is too complicated, leaving too much room to the player and I'm not sure OpenHome solves this. I did not see if OpenHome was adding synchronization which is a big thing in my opinion
It would probably take a large post to list differences and I'm sure other people have smarter comments than mine on these topics.



I like too the LMS ecosystem but even if i'm not a true "Audiophile" i care about sound quality and above all user experience as a "melomane".
In this aspect Roon seems interesting for a classical music lover who like to "discover" new musics.

Something I know from my professional life is that it is *extremely* difficult to design a SW client/protocol and expect it to be adopted by various HW vendors. However good is your solution, vendors like to either do their own (customer lock-in) or 'improve/re-implement' yours and here you go ... To have adoption of SW clients in embedded world, you need to have the scale so that HW vendors see the non-adoption of your SW client as a threat for them to loose share. And to create scale you need adoption - chicken and egg, quite often.



Thank's and Regards.
Volpone

PS: Sorry for my english i live in Paris.
[/QUOTE]
ex-Paris as well

volpone
2015-07-28, 14:44
Thank you Philippe_44, very interesting insights.

Cebolla
2015-11-23, 12:19
Hi Volpone

With Roon now close to releasing a SqueezeBox supporting version of its server and thanks to Philippe's excellent squeeze2upnp application, you'll likely be soon able to have Roon being streamed by UPnP/DLNA supporting streamers and even Chromecast audio players (via Philippe's squeeze2cast)!
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103728-Announce-UPnPBridge-integrate-UPnP-DLNA-players-with-LMS-%28squeeze2upnp%29&p=836632&viewfull=1#post836632

John

volpone
2015-11-24, 08:33
Hello Cebolla,

Thank you for the insights about possible UPnP - DNLA (and Chromecast) devices / Roon interoperability via Philippe's excellent squeeze2upnp application.

I'm too very impatient to evaluate Roon SqueezeBox devices support to be released very soon:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043/114

I'm interested in future RoonReady devices via RAAT SDK and also RoonSpeakers software on nano devices:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roonready-a-quick-update-from-roon-labs/5104/22

I'm testing Roon since 4 months (while still using LMS day to day) and like it but i'm restricted to use AirPlay via AppleTV device to feed my DAC with Roon streams.
.
Glad to see Roon ecosystem is growing.

Regards
Volpone

volpone
2015-11-28, 11:05
Roon multizones streaming to SB3, Touch (EDO) and Boom.
Seems to be released soon according to https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043/142

19346

And DSD stream (DOP)

19348

marflao
2015-11-29, 02:31
Hi volpone,

I must admit that I haven't followed the Roon/Squeezebox integrations totally.

To be able to use Roon streaming would it mean that instead of a LMS version Roon needs to be installed?
Will this be a kind of Roon server version which can be installed on a Nas or is the installation only possible on pc/Mac?

In case it can be installed on a Nas is there some prerequisite on the Nas side therefore dsd can be played?

I'm asking this because I thought I would be able to play dsf files via my Synology (pinkdots LMS version) /SBT combo but due to the fact that my Nas is "too old" (not the right Arm version) it didn't work out.

volpone
2015-11-29, 04:24
Hi volpone,

I must admit that I haven't followed the Roon/Squeezebox integrations totally.

To be able to use Roon streaming would it mean that instead of a LMS version Roon needs to be installed?
Will this be a kind of Roon server version which can be installed on a Nas or is the installation only possible on pc/Mac?

In case it can be installed on a Nas is there some prerequisite on the Nas side therefore dsd can be played?

I'm asking this because I thought I would be able to play dsf files via my Synology (pinkdots LMS version) /SBT combo but due to the fact that my Nas is "too old" (not the right Arm version) it didn't work out.

From my limited understanding on SB devices support as Roon endpoints (due to not enough information from RoonLabs):

- You need to subscribe to Roon service and install Roon Core server (annual or lifetime subscription, not free !).
- Only Mac and Win Roon versions available. Headless Linux version are on the way but no timeline and due to Roon server requirements on CPU and RAM only very few powerfull NAS will be compatible.
- SB devices support (SB3, Touch, Boom ...) is only one way: SB devices as "passive" endpoints for Roon audio streams, no control and commands (i hope some "now playing" metadata on SB devices screens but i'm not sure).

So it's not a real SB ecossystem alternative but however very usefull for people using Roon and SB devices (and squeezelite).

I'm a long time LMS / SB user and i will continue to use it in parallel with Roon due to some SB ecosystem capabilities not supported in Roon (mainly radio support and some others functions available via plugins)

More to come when RoonLabs released the new SB compatible version (i hope in 2015 :eek:)
Some informations are available on this this thread https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043

Regards

marflao
2015-11-29, 07:12
From my limited understanding on SB devices support as Roon endpoints (due to not enough information from RoonLabs):

- You need to subscribe to Roon service and install Roon Core server (annual or lifetime subscription, not free !).
- Only Mac and Win Roon versions available. Headless Linux version are on the way but no timeline and due to Roon server requirements on CPU and RAM only very few powerfull NAS will be compatible.
- SB devices support (SB3, Touch, Boom ...) is only one way: SB devices as "passive" endpoints for Roon audio streams, no control and commands (i hope some "now playing" metadata on SB devices screens but i'm not sure).

So it's not a real SB ecossystem alternative but however very usefull for people using Roon and SB devices (and squeezelite).

I'm a long time LMS / SB user and i will continue to use it in parallel with Roon due to some SB ecosystem capabilities not supported in Roon (mainly radio support and some others functions available via plugins)

More to come when RoonLabs released the new SB compatible version (i hope in 2015 :eek:)
Some informations are available on this this thread https://community.roonlabs.com/t/squeezebox-support/1043

Regards

OK...will keep an eye on it once the Linux version will be available.

Thanks so far.

d6jg
2015-12-02, 10:16
I had a nosey and Roon seems to be compatible with some high end "end points" and also with anything AirPlay. In their FAQs it points out that AirPlay is 16/44.1 only. Has anyone been able to establish what the SB player bitrate is with Roon?

volpone
2015-12-02, 10:29
I had a nosey and Roon seems to be compatible with some high end "end points" and also with anything AirPlay. In their FAQs it points out that AirPlay is 16/44.1 only. Has anyone been able to establish what the SB player bitrate is with Roon?
- The Roon version compatible with SB devices is not released yet, but it seems near ...
- IMHO Roon will stream every bitrates SB devices can play, no limitation from Roon side

d6jg
2015-12-02, 13:35
I have had a more detailed read now and I see that they are working on 24/192 capability and also DSD.
As I read it Roon is a possible replacement for LMS with a greater metadata based database (.net?) but currently lacking some of the features that make LMS as great as it is.
Have you direct experience of it with a player(s) other than a SB?
What is the synchronisation like? It claims multi player sync.
Does it create heavy bandwidth on your internet connection when it is building its database? Or is it dynamic lookup based as and when you play something?
Crucially for me it's control app would have to be pretty special to oust iPeng from my iPhone and we would definitely need hi-res BBC iPlayer access.
Are they developing a Linux headless server version?
What exactly is RoonPlayer?

volpone
2015-12-02, 14:12
I have had a more detailed read now and I see that they are working on 24/192 capability and also DSD.
Yes.


As I read it Roon is a possible replacement for LMS with a greater metadata based database (.net?) but currently lacking some of the features that make LMS as great as it is.
Yes, Roon is very "young" and not free. The other mains features are a very good content agregation with music content providers (only TIDAL service for now ...) and generalized hyperlinking of metadata an editorial contents. Ui is good, metadata too, and also classical music management.

However a lot of Squeeze / LMS features are not available yet (radio, smartmix for example).

Roon is buid on .NET architecture, database is a Google Leveldb solution.


Have you direct experience of it with a player(s) other than a SB?
What is the synchronisation like? It claims multi player sync.
Yes i use it since few months with TIDAL HIFI. I use AirPlay to stream to ATV feeding my DAC optical input. No experience in syncing.
I'm waiting to best Roon Ready streamer devices availability, from manufacturers like PS Audio, Auralic, DcS or others ... AirPlay is not the best solution.


it create heavy bandwidth on your internet connection when it is building its database?
No it doesn't for me with a 7000 albums library but i use a good Internet link.


Or is it dynamic lookup based as and when you play something?
Database is local (near 2GB for my library) but there is some sync process (metatada refreshment) neither heavy nor often. Bandwith and sync ressources are almost required for the TIDAL contents agregation.


Crucially for me it's control app would have to be pretty special to oust iPeng from my iPhone
Good UI on IPAD but no Iphone app yet.


and we would definitely need hi-res BBC iPlayer access.
Not yet, but Roon is young an they plans to add others externals services.


Are they developing a Linux headless server version?
Yes but not available yet. Powerful NAS hardware (RAM and CPU) will be required.
Only headless MAC and WIN versions available now.


What exactly is RoonPlayer?
I don't know RoonPlayer.
RoonSpeakers is a small software intended to run on WIN/MAC/Linux/ANDROID ...and others nano devices like raspberry to allow them to act as "endpoints" and play the streams from Roon server (no UI, only player). RoonSpeakers is not released yet but i hope it will before 2016.

Regards

d6jg
2015-12-02, 14:18
Thanks I think I confused RoonPlayer with RoonSpeakers

geekythings
2015-12-03, 13:17
Has anyone tried or is anyone using audio|acacia (http://www.plethra.com)? If so, what are your thoughts?

It looks functionally very similar to Roon, but appears to support more music services and more endpoints and doesn't cost $500.

I see that there is also some interest in supporting Squeezebox devices as endpoints on their feature request list.

HalleysComet
2015-12-12, 23:15
I've been an enthusiastic user of LMS for many years now, although I'm down to two players (a Touch & Transporter) down from a high of four in the house at peak. I'm a huge classical music lover, with just over 25,000 tracks in my FLAC library. Thanks to Erland's plug-ins and many hours of tagging, I'm fairly pleased with my ability to find music by composer, conductor, orchestra, soloist, etc. I played around with a friend's SooLoos system and thought it had nice search and metadata look-up capabilities for classical music. When Roon was introduced, I was excited until I saw the pricing. Understandable that all the programming requires a business model, but more than I wanted to pay. In particular I like the Tidal integration with Roon, although that's another subscription.

I hear that there's a new release imminent for Roon which will include Squeeze devices as end points for playback. I'll be extremely interested to see how this works, and may even buy a subscription for a year to provide feedback to the development team. I care little about DSD+ high rez formats, but I would like to reward an actively supported development program that's sensitive to the needs of classical music lovers. Here's hoping it all comes together! If not, LMS still works, and I could run another system in parallel if I had to.

I'll look forward to any experiences others are able to relate regarding the Roon initiatives to include squeeze players!

mftech
2015-12-17, 06:17
I installed Roon yesterday,
btw I found very offensive that you need to provide your credit card for an evaluation.

I set-up Roon to connect with my NAS (VB 2.3), at first I found the indexing to be pretty slow...even after several hours Roon was still indexing...

Checking LMS I found out the LMS was also indexing (I use Auto Rescan)...and then I realised the horror...

Roon was indexing and re-arranging all my music collection...with his own scheme...

Hopefully I got a back-up...

I tested lots of music software, this is a first when the software din't mention any warning about altering the music collection...very bad design...

I should have point Roon to the read-only folder...my mistake...but the software should mention that the collection will be altered...and why Roon is destructive ?

Very disappointed...

Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-17, 15:20
I installed Roon yesterday,
btw I found very offensive that you need to provide your credit card for an evaluation.

I set-up Roon to connect with my NAS (VB 2.3), at first I found the indexing to be pretty slow...even after several hours Roon was still indexing...

Checking LMS I found out the LMS was also indexing (I use Auto Rescan)...and then I realised the horror...

Roon was indexing and re-arranging all my music collection...with his own scheme...

Hopefully I got a back-up...

I tested lots of music software, this is a first when the software din't mention any warning about altering the music collection...very bad design...

I should have point Roon to the read-only folder...my mistake...but the software should mention that the collection will be altered...and why Roon is destructive ?

Very disappointed...

I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2

"Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized Folder"

volpone
2015-12-17, 15:54
Roon screw up my entire collection


I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2
"Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized Folder"

I second @Otto-Wilhelm.
I'm using Roon in parallel with LMS since few months.
My audio library is on a NAS filesystem (ReadyNAS) and using Roon "Watched Folder" option none of my files and folders were moved or modified.
LMS still work as usual on the same library too. Initial Roon indexing process was approximatively 2.5 hours for 7000 albums, less than LMS scanning process duration (with custom scan process additional time).

Here is the Roon warning for "Organized Folder" option:
19489

mftech
2015-12-19, 15:55
I assume that you selected the wrong kind of folder. See https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-a-watched-folder-whats-an-organized-folder/119/2

"Watched Folder" is the kind of folder to be selected, not "Organized Folder"

Yes...I understand my mistake...considering the danger, you should have a second warning...and i'm probably the first one to make this mistake...anyway my back-up is now terminated...still exploring Roon and understand the benefits considering the high pricing...

mdconnelly
2015-12-19, 18:42
In anticipation of the Squeezebox support coming soon, I popped for a lifetime subscription to Roon after having tested it for a week or so. I have to say that I'm extremely impressed. If what you want is the ability to get more engaged with your music (and less so with the technology), then Roon is very compelling. I love the Roon UI and functionality and rich metadata it provides. I always thought I was quite meticulous at tagging, but a Roon scan (watched folders) quickly showed about 8% of my 2500+ albums were unidentified. In looking into it, I found tagging errors (mine) in quite a few cases that kept Roon from identifying the album. A quick fix and Roon had no problem identifying it.

Of course, it's not about to replace LMS for me (but does run quite nicely in parallel for now). Two things it doesn't have (yet) that I'm not about to give up anytime soon: internet radio streaming and iPeng!! It does not have an iphone app (big mistake) and their iPad app - while excellent by all accounts - requires a newer iPad and will not run on my iPad 2.

But, damn, the Roon rich UI and metadata really does enhance just sitting down to listen to music. And I can't wait to see how well it handles Squeezeboxes as end points. It is incredibly promising.

Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-20, 09:28
Info an ROON, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA

Extended Trial is offered: goto https://roonlabs.com/coupon.html and use the code NL1501HBPROJECT (Valid until december 31, 2015)

see also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1LvfgOQ3JY

VirusKiller
2015-12-21, 10:04
Squeezebox support has now been released.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-use-roon-and-squeezebox-devices-together/5865

volpone
2015-12-21, 10:22
New version of Roon (V1.1, b88) is out and supports SqueezeBox networked devices as "endpoints": https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-88-is-live/5676

- On SBT: Now playing (metadata and cover), volume control and ability to pause and next / prev tracks.
- On SqueezeLite / SqueezePlay: Not officialy tested / supported but OK, same as SBT
- On SB3: Only Roon logo

HQPlayer is also supported but i do not use it.
On my setup sound quality is OK (bitperfect) on the 3 SB devices.
Multizone is available on SB devices via "Group" option.

LMS must be disabled but MySqueezeBox still available.

19509

19510

audiomuze
2015-12-22, 03:14
Yes...I understand my mistake...considering the danger, you should have a second warning...and i'm probably the first one to make this mistake...anyway my back-up is now terminated...still exploring Roon and understand the benefits considering the high pricing...Strongly disagree. The first warning screen is very clear. There comes a point we as users need to take responsibility for our own actions and decisions.

audiomuze
2015-12-22, 03:24
New version of Roon (V1.1, b88) is out and supports SqueezeBox networked devices as "endpoints": https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-88-is-live/5676

- On SBT: Now playing (metadata and cover), volume control and ability to pause and next / prev tracks.
- On SqueezeLite / SqueezePlay: Not officialy tested / supported but OK, same as SBT
- On SB3: Only Roon logo

HQPlayer is also supported but i do not use it.
On my setup sound quality is OK (bitperfect) on the 3 SB devices.
Multizone is available on SB devices via "Group" option.

LMS must be disabled but MySqueezeBox still available.Been using it for the past 2 weeks and it works very well. Whilst Squeezelite is not officially supported most of my use during testing was on Squeezelite, albeit at one stage I had a Boom, Touch, Receiver and Squeezelite all synced.

mftech
2015-12-24, 05:07
Strongly disagree. The first warning screen is very clear. There comes a point we as users need to take responsibility for our own actions and decisions.

Strongly disagree...considering that this action will alter your music collection. At least a mention to back-up your collection.
Anyway I put my testing of Roon aside, way too much expensive considering the benefit.

Otto-Wilhelm
2015-12-24, 06:40
Roon is great. I consider to go for it in addition to my LMS-Squeezebox setup. Squeezebox devices can be supplied directly from Roon with music streams, but with the disadvantage that the LMS in the network has to be shut down for achieving that a respective Squeezebox device connects automatically with Roon. Alternatively you can connect a respective Squeezebox device manually via the local device controls to Roon using "Switching library".

Further, there is the option to supply Squeezebox devices with music streams via Airplay, which Roon supports, and LMS with Shairtunes Plugin and Shareport, what apparently requires LMS running under Linux. Currently this is my favorite solution, since therewith Roon is in a sense integrated with LMS. It has still to be tested whether this configuration is stable enough.

mdconnelly
2015-12-24, 07:07
Hey, I've been a huge Squeezebox fan since the very early SlimDevices days and I'm the last one to ever want to give up on it.

With that said, Roon is a game changer when it comes to how you listen and explore your music. If you've got a large library of music, Roon gives you a easy, intuitive, and extremely informative means to rediscover music you've long forgotten you have. Hard to explain without actually using it - which I have now for a couple weeks - but I'm very impressed . The fact that I can now use it with all my Squeezeboxen makes it an awesome solution for me. No, it cannot replace LMS (yet), but what Roon offers in it's UI and metadata cannot be touched by any other software I've seen.

So for me, it is definitely worth the price of admission.

jfo
2015-12-24, 12:01
Hey, I've been a huge Squeezebox fan since the very early SlimDevices days and I'm the last one to ever want to give up on it.

With that said, Roon is a game changer when it comes to how you listen and explore your music. If you've got a large library of music, Roon gives you a easy, intuitive, and extremely informative means to rediscover music you've long forgotten you have. Hard to explain without actually using it - which I have now for a couple weeks - but I'm very impressed . The fact that I can now use it with all my Squeezeboxen makes it an awesome solution for me. No, it cannot replace LMS (yet), but what Roon offers in it's UI and metadata cannot be touched by any other software I've seen.

So for me, it is definitely worth the price of admission.

Can you be more specific about what makes it so much better? A few examples would be helpful.
Thanks

mdconnelly
2015-12-24, 13:14
Their UI and use of metadata makes it so easy to surf through your music collection finding music and relationships you'd never know existed. It's also extremely intuitive and quite beautiful. But yes, it's harder to describe than it is to see. This video gives a pretty effective glimpse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA

R1200CL
2016-01-04, 21:17
Roon is great. I consider to go for it in addition to my LMS-Squeezebox setup. Squeezebox devices can be supplied directly from Roon with music streams, but with the disadvantage that the LMS in the network has to be shut down for achieving that a respective Squeezebox device connects automatically with Roon. Alternatively you can connect a respective Squeezebox device manually via the local device controls to Roon using "Switching library".

If you use the password function on LMS, will that not eliminate the problem ?

R1200CL
2016-01-04, 21:27
Can I still use iPeng for radio through mysqueezebox.com ?

If I have understood this right, that is an area where Roon is not up and running.

Apart from that, you may use Room instead of LMS and iPeng. Is that a correct observation ?
(As a Tidal hi-fi subscriber).

Otto-Wilhelm
2016-01-06, 00:35
Can I still use iPeng for radio through mysqueezebox.com ?

If I have understood this right, that is an area where Roon is not up and running.

Apart from that, you may use Room instead of LMS and iPeng. Is that a correct observation ?
(As a Tidal hi-fi subscriber).

Yes, Roon can stream to Squeezebox devices. Problematic is a mixed infrastructure with LMS as alternate streaming source. It seams, that all Squeezebox devices (in any case Touch and Radio, but apparently also Classic and Transporter) can be disconnected from LMS and connected with RoonServer via the respective local UI. The problem is to connect it back to LMS. This works with Touch and Radio, but apparently not with Classic, since server side functionality would be needed. This might also apply to Transporter.

There is a thread on the ROON forum dealing with these issues:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/lms-to-run-in-parallel-with-roon/6291/14

Another relevant threads is:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-use-roon-and-squeezebox-devices-together/5865

There are some other threads dealing with Squeezebox issues which can be found with the search function using the keyword "Squeezebox".

I meanwhile got a ROON lifetime subscription but am determined to stick to LMS as well.

For me ROON is a very nice and in a sense "must have" add on to my current LMS/Squeezebox infrastructure. "Surfing" in your music collection like in a Wiki can only be done with ROON. In "ROON" the TIDAL catalogue of my TIDAL Hifi subscription is an integrated part of this music collection. Unfortunately, Qobuz is not integrated into ROON, and it is open whether this will happen. However, using ROON you find music in TIDAL which one would not find using the TIDAL client. They have much more Jazz and Classical music, even very new releases, than one would expect!

mdconnelly
2016-01-06, 06:56
Roon works fine with Touch and Duet. Haven't yet tried it with a Classic but thanks for the heads-up. I would think that if you are a Tidal and Squeezebox user, Roon would be a huge win. It is still a work in progress hence the need and desire to continue using LMS for features that don't (yet) exist in Roon such as internet radio. But there's little question in my mind that Roon offers a window to your music like no other platform I've used. I bought a lifetime subscription back in mid December and had a blast using it over the holidays.

R1200CL
2016-01-06, 21:31
Thanks for nice information. I also found some YouTube video showing UI etc. I think at some stage I will purchase a subscription. If I don't purchase a Auralic product as I understand Roon is then part of what you get. Not sure if that is correct. Time will tell.

R1200CL
2016-01-07, 15:37
You lucky Roon subscribers :D
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mqa-support-by-roon/88/23

They confirm MQA will at some time be implemented in their SW.
(Meaning you do not have to wait for SB implementation)

agillis
2016-01-12, 20:54
Today Roon Labs released Roon 1.1 (build 94) this has better support for Squeezebox endpoints and also support for the new RoonReady endpoints. If you have a RoonReady endpoint like the new Sonicorbiter SE you can play directly to your DAC over the network.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-94-is-live/6813

DanSmedra
2016-01-22, 18:07
Can someone explain the basic signal/circuit path for streaming music via: computer, Roon software, and Squeezebox Touch?

Jeff Flowerday
2016-01-23, 13:37
Can someone explain the basic signal/circuit path for streaming music via: computer, Roon software, and Squeezebox Touch?

Roon Core/Server (think of these as LMS) -> Squeezebox Touch.

Roon Remote computer installs or iOS/Android devices talk to the above Roon Core/Server. Think of these as something like iPeng.


Roon Core can be thought of as LMS plus a user interface controls surface. Roon server is headless and requires a roon remote computer app, iOS or android app to control it.


Important note: There are specific requirements to iOS and android devices. Newer generation tablets are the only supported devices at this time.

reverendo
2016-03-03, 15:03
very interested. always wanted to find out if another server would make the end result sound different.
it's a very high price, though, so will probably test for two weeks and see how it fares against lms.
great thread, btw.

mdconnelly
2016-03-03, 15:51
very interested. always wanted to find out if another server would make the end result sound different.
it's a very high price, though, so will probably test for two weeks and see how it fares against lms.
great thread, btw.

I'm using Roon and occasionally switch back to LMS to stream radio. There are still quite a few benefits to using LMS that do not yet exist in Roon, but what Roon has to offer can't be touched by anyone else.

I really don't hear a difference between streaming from Roon to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet) vs streaming from LMS to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet).

reverendo
2016-03-03, 16:02
I'm using Roon and occasionally switch back to LMS to stream radio. There are still quite a few benefits to using LMS that do not yet exist in Roon, but what Roon has to offer can't be touched by anyone else.

I really don't hear a difference between streaming from Roon to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet) vs streaming from LMS to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet).
thanks for the input.
what else is missing from Roon, apart from Radio?

mdconnelly
2016-03-03, 16:16
thanks for the input.
what else is missing from Roon, apart from Radio?

No iPeng! There is still no iPhone app to control Roon and what does exist for an iPad will only work on the newest iPads. But, Roon does have such apps on their roadmap so I suspect we'll see it soon along with radio.

The one other feature I personally use with LMS is the alarm scheduling - either for my SB Radio or just to automatically turn my SBs on/off to preset music. Roon claims that is also on their roadmap so time will tell.

To be honest, I've used LMS for many years now - since the SB2 days -- and I find it very hard to give up. I have a huge respect for all those that have continued to support and evolve it. Kudos to all. Who would have thought it would still be thriving this many years after Logitech dumped it.

But like everything in life, technology marches on and Roon seems like an awesome path forward.

reverendo
2016-03-03, 16:36
No iPeng! There is still no iPhone app to control Roon and what does exist for an iPad will only work on the newest iPads. But, Roon does have such apps on their roadmap so I suspect we'll see it soon along with radio.

The one other feature I personally use with LMS is the alarm scheduling - either for my SB Radio or just to automatically turn my SBs on/off to preset music. Roon claims that is also on their roadmap so time will tell.

To be honest, I've used LMS for many years now - since the SB2 days -- and I find it very hard to give up. I have a huge respect for all those that have continued to support and evolve it. Kudos to all. Who would have thought it would still be thriving this many years after Logitech dumped it.

But like everything in life, technology marches on and Roon seems like an awesome path forward.

thanks, Mike. appreciate the swift feedback.
Since I'm Android it seems that I'm covered. only problem is the price tag :0

garym
2016-03-03, 18:13
I really don't hear a difference between streaming from Roon to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet) vs streaming from LMS to a SB Touch (then to my Devialet).

You shouldn't hear a difference unless something is broken on your end. Both LMS and Roon stream bitperfect audio to the player.

Squeezed_Rotel
2016-03-04, 02:34
You shouldn't hear a difference unless something is broken on your end. Both LMS and Roon stream bitperfect audio to the player.

Thank You!

Lyster
2016-04-10, 21:30
Ever since Logitech dumped the Squeezebox I've been looking for a replacement (for future needs and expansion). I'm currently in the 14-day trial period for Roon - and it's wonderful. Plays to all my Squeezebox devices - and AirPlay devices as well. Organizes all my music, and makes it accessible. In fact, I am listening to music far more often now. I have so many tracks that I haven't heard for so, so long that it is bringing back to life. Yes I had the Erland plugins and SugarCube, etc. And was running LMS 7.9. But this Roon is a full generation ahead. I imagine this is where Logitech would have taken the Squeezebox if it had persevered.

Roon is pricey, but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and subscribe. I won't pay for the "lifetime" subscription, just in case Roon craps out like Logitech did.

jazzwave
2016-04-12, 05:53
Ever since Logitech dumped the Squeezebox I've been looking for a replacement (for future needs and expansion). I'm currently in the 14-day trial period for Roon - and it's wonderful. Plays to all my Squeezebox devices - and AirPlay devices as well. Organizes all my music, and makes it accessible. In fact, I am listening to music far more often now. I have so many tracks that I haven't heard for so, so long that it is bringing back to life. Yes I had the Erland plugins and SugarCube, etc. And was running LMS 7.9. But this Roon is a full generation ahead. I imagine this is where Logitech would have taken the Squeezebox if it had persevered.

Roon is pricey, but I think I'm going to bite the bullet and subscribe. I won't pay for the "lifetime" subscription, just in case Roon craps out like Logitech did.


Any sound improvement by running Roon via SB devices?

~ron (not roon)_ :)

Mnyb
2016-04-12, 12:13
Any sound improvement by running Roon via SB devices?

~ron (not roon)_ :)

No there is no mechanism for that a bit perfect stream to a networked player is just that .

That's one of the main points with squeezeboxes and other networked players or "endpoints" roon has its own standard RAAT for manufacturers to use if they wish to design new hardware btw, the player becomes server agnostic .
Sound quality or not is provided by the player the server serves and everyone is happy :) .
I remember 15 years ago when one connected the *computer* and it was a ton settings ASIO or WASAPI drivers kernel streaming and whatnot that I don't have to bother with anymore .... And the new addition fake optimiser programs and special "better" software players for your PC . And you had to monitor or those settings in you ever changing computer environment

My server is in another room and it does not even have audio in its its OS or any hardware for it . The players are close to my listening zones .

I lurked around the roon forum a bit , they do have something going on very nice , but I wait to test to at least > 1.2 I'm happy to beta test stuff , but thier product is only 1 year old ? And some parts needs work to get basic functionality .
For example their play cue , just no . And the lack of other services than tidal . No Spotify no disco ! And no Tune in ? Or much of Internet radio at all .
They have to get down to earth and use other services based on API rather then demand custom work by the service to get the perfect database integration , that's a nice admirable goal but it does not survive reality .
I will absolutely try it at one point ,they are about one the only current contenders in this area . Sonos is little but dead end imho and Logitech killed their product ? But it's alive :)

Julf
2016-04-12, 12:32
Sound quality or not is provided by the player the server serves and everyone is happy :)

And, almost magically, it makes no difference if the connection between the server and the player is a $1000 ethernet cable made from pure virgin mountain gold, or is a 10000 mile internet connection of fibre optics, repeaters, routers and exchange points...

firedog
2016-04-15, 00:18
Roon has now released "RoonSpeakers" - endpoint software that makes audio HW compatible with Roon.

Anybody have an idea if an SBT could be hacked and this software installed on it?

I'd be interested, as it would enable music streaming from Roon to a Touch, without using the present Roon solution, which is a stripped down type of SB "server" that doesn't include use of plugins, etc.

oyvindo
2016-04-15, 03:06
Hi all,
Iím interested in feedback and discussion about potential Roon alternative from Squeezebox users point of view.

Stay with your LMS. There's none above it and none next to it when it comes to music media management and distribution.
I have my LMS 7.9 running on a high end QNAP NAS and use to drive a number of legacy squeezeboxes, as well as several Chromecasts, plus various implementations of SqueezeLite such as the very nice one for Kodi, and last but not least, any UPnP (DLNA) device. Players are in my house, and in the houses of the rest of my family plus a few friends across the globe.

My setup is 100% stable.
Most of it is shareware, opensource or public domain. The user domain is huge and support Forums are excellent.
What more can you ask for?

Yes, I agree the LMS web interface is becoming a bit outdated and rusty, but I seldom use it anymore cause there's really no need.
My favorite PC front end to LMS nowdays is Muso http://klarita.net/muso.html - it beats Roon big time, both in functionality as well as in Price!
My library has some 9000 albums, mostly pop and jazz.

Julf
2016-04-15, 05:50
Roon has now released "RoonSpeakers" - endpoint software that makes audio HW compatible with Roon.

Does it use a proprietary protocol, or some more open / compatible / future proof solution (a la AES67)?

mdconnelly
2016-04-15, 07:50
I'm a long time LMS/Squeezebox user - nearly a dozen years now... I owe a huge debt of gratitude to all those that have kept LMS afloat after Logitech ditched it. So for me to consider leaving it behind is no easy decision.

With that said, the rich Roon UI and environment runs circles around it. More importantly, it's getting the level of development & financial support that sadly, Logitech never gave LMS and Squeezeboxes. Numerous tools have cropped up (like Moose & Muso) that have served as great front-ends to LMS. Muso, particular, has a pretty slick UI. But still, not the content-and-functionality rich environment that Roon has established. IMO, Roon is a game-changer in how I listen to music and continues to evolve in a substantial way. My biggest hold-outs against Roon were the lack of phone control support and it's inability to stream radio. Well, Roon v1.2 just released now does that very nicely. And while there is no Spotify integration, Roon's integration with Tidal is exceptional. And then there is Roon's significant efforts to work with other hardware manufacturers to get their equipment 'RoonReady'.

I will say that while Roon can stream to any Squeezebox or Squeezelite device (which is very cool and how I first learned about Roon), it simply treats them as end-points. So the slick UI of the Touch or SB Radio will not work other than as an on/off switch. But given that I've been controlling my Squeezeboxen via iPeng for years, I really don't have a problem with that and can just as easily now control them via the Roon Remote app.

Last but far from least... the various plugins and LMS functionality that I've come to know and love (and yes, often not all that easy to know and love over the years) is lost in the Roon environment. Even if someone could find a way to implement the Roon RAAT protocol within a Squeezebox, it still would lose all the LMS plug-in functionality we've come to love. But then, much of that is either already in Roon or on their roadmap.

Am I ready to turn the LMS lights off? Hmmm, I don't know... maybe.

firedog
2016-04-15, 19:00
Stay with your LMS. There's none above it and none next to it when it comes to music media management and distribution.
I have my LMS 7.9 running on a high end QNAP NAS and use to drive a number of legacy squeezeboxes, as well as several Chromecasts, plus various implementations of SqueezeLite such as the very nice one for Kodi, and last but not least, any UPnP (DLNA) device. Players are in my house, and in the houses of the rest of my family plus a few friends across the globe.

My setup is 100% stable.
Most of it is shareware, opensource or public domain. The user domain is huge and support Forums are excellent.
What more can you ask for?

Yes, I agree the LMS web interface is becoming a bit outdated and rusty, but I seldom use it anymore cause there's really no need.
My favorite PC front end to LMS nowdays is Muso http://klarita.net/muso.html - it beats Roon big time, both in functionality as well as in Price!
My library has some 9000 albums, mostly pop and jazz.

Thanks for not answering my question. Just so you know, I didn't like Muso at all. It is like a childrens version of Roon. LMS is okay, but behind the times at this point. Roon is superior to it in almost every way in terms of UIl

dasmueller
2016-04-15, 21:18
I guess it all depends upon how one wants to listen. Personally I do not use any of the streaming services. Being retired, I am way too busy for that, also a dinosaur. I only listen to local music so LMS it is and happy to say so !

Lyster
2016-04-25, 16:08
Thanks for not answering my question. Just so you know, I didn't like Muso at all. It is like a childrens version of Roon. LMS is okay, but behind the times at this point. Roon is superior to it in almost every way in terms of UIl

Roon is superior, I wholeheartedly agree. Roon is expensive, yes. That is the only downside I can see. They are constantly upgrading the product (unlike LMS). I'm going for it.... but I don't think I want a lifetime license... Not yet anyway. Look where Squeezebox went, for example. And with Roon you might be able to migrate away from Logitech devices too.

firedog
2016-04-25, 22:57
Roon is superior, I wholeheartedly agree. Roon is expensive, yes. That is the only downside I can see. They are constantly upgrading the product (unlike LMS). I'm going for it.... but I don't think I want a lifetime license... Not yet anyway. Look where Squeezebox went, for example. And with Roon you might be able to migrate away from Logitech devices too.

Last Christmas Roon had a "sale": give someone a subscription for about 30% off (including lifetime, which made it a much better deal). It was supposed to be for "new" subscribers. But you could give yourself a subscription by setting up a Roon account (free) and an email address to send the subscription to. Check and see if they do it again near Christmas. They will, by the way, also allow you to "top off" a yearly subscription to a lifetime one if you decide to upgrade - you just pay the difference in price.

michel
2016-08-15, 08:22
I just tried Roon for the first time.
Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.

Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).

Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I don't think that is enough to convince me.

garym
2016-08-15, 09:15
I just tried Roon for the first time.
Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.

Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).

Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I don't think that is enough to convince me.

there's a setting in Roon to prefer your own tags and artwork over the Roon metadata. I'd post on the roon forum regarding the hires and pink noise. They seem to be good at helping diagnose problems, including roon technical folks.

firedog
2016-08-15, 21:24
I just tried Roon for the first time.
Most annoing fact is that everything hires plays for seconds correctly and the gives just very loud pink? noise.
I am running roon on a 1518+ synology.

Another annoiance is that roon ignores perfect tags and coverart just to replace with inferior information (I am picky with tagging).

Otherwise interface Looks pretty, artist information is great but I don't think that is enough to convince me.

Likely your Synology isn't powerful enough to run Roon. Check at the Roon forum. There's a synology thread, and this: http://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Server_on_NAS
In Roon settings you can tell it to use your tags, etc instead of its database
No reason it shouldn't play hi-res. I play all hi-res with it including multiple X DSD. It means either you have to adjust settings, or that on your NAS+Roon doesn't have the power.

bsergiu
2017-01-11, 08:42
Hi HiFi friends,

I was attracted to the Roon hype, looked into it and got confused.
I know that the HiFi world is a matter of taste and preferences, and the argumentation for whatever equipment or software does not have to be based on pure cold logic :) However, did I get this right, that Roon wants me to pay them ~500 bucks and to buy a 500 bucks NAS / Mac Mini in order to allow myself to listen to my own music, which I can do anyways today? Hmmm ... If I look at apps like Synology native DS Video (as an example, not as an alternative to Roon!) - which gives you a Roon-like augmented experience of your own video media (ratings, reviews, info on artists, pics, trailers, ...) with multi-device support - the price (zero, subsidized with hardware) is much more realistic.
And one last word on "lifetime" pricing: it is their lifetime, not yours :)

I understand this is a premium service, but dear Roon managers: you need to find new financing models for this, to make it more attractive to customers. Do not forget, your market segment are the geeks. Some of them rich, but still geeks ;)

Long live my LMS infrastructure ;)

mdconnelly
2017-01-11, 09:22
Hi HiFi friends,

I was attracted to the Roon hype, looked into it and got confused.
I know that the HiFi world is a matter of taste and preferences, and the argumentation for whatever equipment or software does not have to be based on pure cold logic :) However, did I get this right, that Roon wants me to pay them ~500 bucks and to buy a 500 bucks NAS / Mac Mini in order to allow myself to listen to my own music, which I can do anyways today? Hmmm ... If I look at apps like Synology native DS Video (as an example, not as an alternative to Roon!) - which gives you a Roon-like augmented experience of your own video media (ratings, reviews, info on artists, pics, trailers, ...) with multi-device support - the price (zero, subsidized with hardware) is much more realistic.
And one last word on "lifetime" pricing: it is their lifetime, not yours :)

I understand this is a premium service, but dear Roon managers: you need to find new financing models for this, to make it more attractive to customers. Do not forget, your market segment are the geeks. Some of them rich, but still geeks ;)

Long live my LMS infrastructure ;)

A Roon lifetime license is $499 or you can subscribe on an annual basis for $119 I think. There is no requirement to buy a NAS or Mac Mini. You can use whatever you're using for LMS and wherever your music is currently stored - Mac or PC. Well, if you're using Linux, that may not be true yet for Roon but soon will be.

The Roon attraction over LMS is simply that it is a far more elegant way to manage your music plus Roon provides substantial metadata that most users will simply not have embedded in their music files. Roon Labs is also very proactive in their customer/community support and the evolution of their product.

Hey, I've used LMS since the early SlimDevices days and have always been a big fan. If you want a free system that just works, then there is no need to look further than LMS. I started using Roon over a year ago (admittedly jumped in when Roon was having a nice sale) and must say that I can't imagine ever going back. IMO, Roon is what the Squeezebox environment should have evolved into.

garym
2017-01-11, 09:32
A Roon lifetime license is $499 or you can subscribe on an annual basis for $119 I think. There is no requirement to buy a NAS or Mac Mini. You can use whatever you're using for LMS and wherever your music is currently stored - Mac or PC. Well, if you're using Linux, that may not be true yet for Roon but soon will be.

The Roon attraction over LMS is simply that it is a far more elegant way to manage your music plus Roon provides substantial metadata that most users will simply not have embedded in their music files. Roon Labs is also very proactive in their customer/community support and the evolution of their product.

Hey, I've used LMS since the early SlimDevices days and have always been a big fan. If you want a free system that just works, then there is no need to look further than LMS. I started using Roon over a year ago (admittedly jumped in when Roon was having a nice sale) and must say that I can't imagine ever going back. IMO, Roon is what the Squeezebox environment should have evolved into.

Yes, the roon development team interactions with users is very much like the early days of Squeezeboxes, where the developers were active participants in the forums, etc. And the roon metadata experience (which is very impressive, and more than just metadata, i.e., connections across things) seems to me to be exactly the sort of thing that erland and colleagues were trying to get to in the LMS environment (recall all the surveys they had a few years ago about how we interacted with our music collections).

I've used roon, I've used SONOS. Sonos was a non-starter even beyond not handling my library size. It's interface and what it can and can't do was just too limited coming from LMS and its rich interface with plugins. But I can understand how its plug and play works nicely for the average consumer, particularly if all they do is stream online services. Roon on the other hand is very impressive, not limited in the same way, can deal with perfect sync multi room players, etc. Very nice. But it can only work with the TIDAL streaming and doesn't have things like podcast apps, or other services or a radio service other than enter a manual URL. Is it worth the $$$. Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the user. I don't find it overpriced for what it does, but I spent more for dinner and wine last night than a year's membership, so its all relative.

I'm still a very happy user of LMS and plan to be for a long time, but I could easily see how Roon could be a supplement or replacement should LMS die.

p.s. Roon does now work on linux. EDIT: if you want to try the free trial, you might wait a few weeks as I suspect the Ver 1.3 will be released soon and it is a very significant upgrade of the program's capabilities.

bsergiu
2017-01-12, 06:50
Thanks a lot for an objective feedback. I'll keep an eye on it ;) I do have a lot of background in the software industry, so maybe that biases me when judging the pricing. However, everybody seems to be happy with the user experience they offer, so ... I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks!

Cheers,

Sergiu

garym
2017-01-12, 07:04
Thanks a lot for an objective feedback. I'll keep an eye on it ;) I do have a lot of background in the software industry, so maybe that biases me when judging the pricing. However, everybody seems to be happy with the user experience they offer, so ... I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks!

Cheers,

Sergiu

I'm told that Roon has significant ongoing expenses in licensing the data they use in creating the user experience (which is the key value added prospect of the product). If true, and I believe it is, this is why the product can't simply be "free" or dirt cheap. My only complaint is that their forums are full of "audio woo woo" believers. But I ignore that stuff (it's hard, but I've given up on trying to "fix" errors on the internet);)

mdconnelly
2017-01-12, 07:13
I'm told that Roon has significant ongoing expenses in licensing the data they use in creating the user experience (which is the key value added prospect of the product). If true, and I believe it is, this is why the product can't simply be "free" or dirt cheap. My only complaint is that their forums are full of "audio woo woo" believers. But I ignore that stuff (it's hard, but I've given up on trying to "fix" errors on the internet);)

"Audio woo woo" believers... AWW! I like that. I think what I've observed is a lot of folks that have not lived in the trenches of digital audio streaming... the trials and tribulations of ripping CDs, tagging and organizing your music files, seeking cover art and struggling to get and keep it all working. Many Roon AWW believers seem new to this biz... Perhaps they've ripped a few CDs, but more likely they're downloading their music, given little thought to tagging and organizing files and likely are using Tidal. For them, Roon makes it so easy to plug and play and has opened a whole new world.

Ah, it's good to be a dinosaur.