PDA

View Full Version : What happened to Triode?



Mausoleum
2015-07-25, 05:18
Hi,
I am a big fan of Triode's Spotify plugin (required due to SB3 and Pi+Squeezelite), but it recently stopped working. While trying to look for updates, I noticed that Triode stopped posting in January and someone mentioned that there won't be any fixes "unless Adrian decides to make a reappearance". Anyone know what happened / what the probability of this is? If the Triode plug-in isn't going to be maintained, I might as well cancel Spotify (together with Rhapsody) and switch to Quboz or Tidal... 8-/

Martin

DJanGo
2015-07-25, 08:04
No idea (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-%28UK-only%29/page290)

bpa
2015-07-25, 11:31
Hi,
I am a big fan of Triode's Spotify plugin (required due to SB3 and Pi+Squeezelite), but it recently stopped working.

I am not a user of the plugin but the plugin is used by many users and since it seems to be still working for them - my guess the problem is is local to your system rather than needing an update.

If it does need an update, it is possible that some other users will create an update for the plugin - this has already happened when Triodes BBCiPlayer plugin needed an update.

carrera
2015-07-25, 17:00
Hi,

I'm new to Spotify, and installed the Plugin last week - with SBR no issues so far - works perfect!


carrera

garym
2015-07-25, 17:05
I can confirm that the 3rd party Spotify Plugin works on my Transporter, Touch, Radio, and Booms, running LMS 7.8.0 or 7.9.0.

verypsb
2015-07-26, 01:01
... If the Triode plug-in isn't going to be maintained, I might as well cancel Spotify (together with Rhapsody)...

But still, to me the Squeezebox eco system deteriorates rapidly. Logitech isn't updating the official plug-ins, and support for important 3rd party plug-ins like Spotify has gone. (Not trying to put the blame on someone) For example, Spotify has a new API, but none of the Spotify plug-ins are using the new API. How long will it take before Spotify will remove support for the old API? Wouldn't it be nice to have a (new) Spotify plug-in using the new "Spotify Connect" API?
Wat about new services like Apple Music, Google Play?

Best regards,
Dennis.

bernt
2015-07-26, 01:07
But still, to me the Squeezebox eco system deteriorates rapidly. Logitech isn't updating the official plug-ins, and support for important 3rd party plug-ins like Spotify have gone. (Not trying to put the blame on someone) For example, Spotify has a new API, but none of the Spotify plug-ins are using the new API. How long will it take before Spotify will remove support for the old API? Wouldn't it be nice to have a (new) Spotify plug-in using the new "Spotify Connect" API?
Wat about new services like Apple Music, Google Play?

Best regards,
Dennis.

Hi!

Where did you find information about the new Spotify API?

Kind regards
Bernt

verypsb
2015-07-26, 01:30
I've read about it on this forum, but can't find it anymore. I even don't know which thread it was...

Dennis.

erland
2015-07-26, 10:47
Where did you find information about the new Spotify API?

They have a Web API which is can be used for search and browse but you still need to use libSpotify as a third party developer if you want to stream music. The Web API and other public API's are available on https://developer.spotify.com

For official Spotify partners there is a Spotify Connect API but this is not available to individual third party developers, you can wish for it to be public in the following feature request to Spotfiy: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Publish-the-Spotify-Connect-Wireless-speaker-API/idi-p/520890
I'm not sure the Spotify Connect API will allow an integration similar to the current Spotify plugins.

pippin
2015-07-26, 11:45
And regarding Google Play: there is a good plugin for that.
Apple Music is currently available exclusively on Apple Hardware. Nobody else has that

garym
2015-07-26, 11:54
And ickstream handles Tidal for squeezeboxes.

ashleyw
2015-07-26, 18:27
but ickstream doesn't have Spotify support which is important to many people, so if you want something that works for now (apart from LMS), I guess you are stuck with;
- Gramofon
- Sonos
neither of which are open.
The fact Spotify haven't licensed any of their stuff to open solutions (that I can see of) for the last few years - can only mean they are trying to kill it over time.

This is disappointing but I guess expected in this day where DRM rules and commercial agreements between hardware and service providers prevail.

mherger
2015-07-26, 22:16
> Logitech isn't updating the official plug-ins,

Not true. If we hadn't updated plugins, then there wouldn't be any
Napster or Rhapsody any more, no improved sound quality for the same, no
lossless WiMP streaming, an even worse Spotify implementation etc.

> For example, Spotify has a new API, but none of the Spotify
> plug-ins are using the new API.

You might not have noticed (as you didn't see the code changes), but we
do use Spotify's new API for some crucial features. When did you see
complaints about tracks provided by Spotify not being playable for the
last time? That was a massive problem before we moved to using the new API.

Using a new API doesn't automatically mean new features. Sometimes they
even drop existing features. The latter would cause complaints, while
small improvements like the few we did go un-seen.

> How long will it take before Spotify
> will remove support for the old API?

We don't know. Actually some are already deprecated and de-facto
un-supported. That's why we no longer use them for critical functions.

> Wouldn't it be nice to have a (new)
> Spotify plug-in using the new "Spotify Connect" API?

Why? Would it automatically be a better implementation? No. Would it
automatically be more future-proof? Not sure. Spotify had APIs for
add-ons they had introduced after the metadata API was considered
"dead". Yet they have completely dropped them, while leaving the old
metadata API in place.

Life is more complicated than "new is better".

--

Michael

verypsb
2015-07-26, 22:24
I stand corrected, Michael... ;-)

Best regards,
Dennis.

bluegaspode
2015-07-26, 22:32
Wouldn't it be nice to have a (new) Spotify plug-in using the new "Spotify Connect" API?.
As someone who tried to get access to the API in the name of a company that is in the music market for several years I can tell you: Spotify doesn't even answer your emails via the official channel for music partners.

verypsb
2015-07-26, 22:41
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a (new)
> Spotify plug-in using the new "Spotify Connect" API?

Why? Would it automatically be a better implementation? No. Would it
automatically be more future-proof? Not sure. Spotify had APIs for
add-ons they had introduced after the metadata API was considered
"dead". Yet they have completely dropped them, while leaving the old
metadata API in place.


I don't own any "Spotify Connect" compatible devices but if I understand correctly, "Spotify Connect" makes it possible to use the Spotify App on your phone, tablet, or desktop to play and queue tracks on your "Spotify Connect" compatible devices. (A bit like Netflix using Chromecast?). I think this would make the Spotify experience easier than using a plugin on Squeezebox (or any other streaming network player like Sonos). It certainly would make things more straightforward for visitors trying to use Spotify with Squeezebox... :-)

Best regards,
Dennis.

verypsb
2015-07-26, 22:45
And regarding Google Play: there is a good plugin for that.

There is? I can't find it on my Logitech Media Server installed on Windows 10.

Best regards,
Dennis.

mherger
2015-07-26, 23:59
>> And regarding Google Play: there is a good plugin for that.
>
> There is? I can't find it on my Logitech Media Server installed on
> Windows 10.

Oh, Windows 10 has not officially been released yet, has it?

Just kidding: the plugin indeed seems to be limited to unixy systems
(Linux, OSX).

https://github.com/hechtus/squeezebox-googlemusic

--

Michael

mherger
2015-07-27, 00:02
> I don't own any "Spotify Connect" compatible devices but if I understand
> correctly, "Spotify Connect" makes it possible to use the Spotify App on
> your phone, tablet, or desktop to play and queue tracks on your "Spotify
> Connect" compatible devices.

AFAIK this is correct, yes. But as someone else has pointed out, they
are very picky about who they're dealing with. Might be they don't have
the resources. Might be it's a political decision. I don't know.

But Spotify Connect is closed source, would need to be implemented in
the firmware and requires some particular hardware parts IIRC. In
particular parts we don't have in our devices.

--

Michael

pippin
2015-07-27, 02:31
and requires some particular hardware parts IIRC.

AFAIK that part is no longer true.
That said: Spotify Connect is like AirPlay for Spotify. No LMS control, no mixed playlists with local files, no plugins no nothing, you just use your player as an external speaker for whatever you do in your Spotify App. I'm not convinced that's the kind of use model most Squeezebox users would want, there's simpler hardware to support that.
IMHO that only works well if Spotify is the _only_ thing you are listening to. Switching Apps between listening to one track/album and the next simply is too cumbersome.

ModelCitizen
2015-07-27, 21:46
I *really* want to be able to use my Squeezebox devices as Spotify players so would love them to support Spotify Connect!

last.fm/user/modelcitizen

pippin
2015-07-27, 22:02
I'd say: no chance. Use AirPlay/ShairTunes, it's the same thing.

ModelCitizen
2015-07-27, 22:23
Sadly it may be the lack of this one feature that causes me to dump the Squeezebox stuff.

I'd not consider another Apple product. The company screwed me one time to many.

last.fm/user/modelcitizen

mherger
2015-07-27, 22:29
> I'd say: no chance. Use AirPlay/ShairTunes, it's the same thing.

Not quite: Spotify Direct doesn't need your phone to be around to
stream. It's streaming directly to the player.

--

Michael

verypsb
2015-07-27, 22:43
I *really* want to be able to use my Squeezebox devices as Spotify players so would love them to support Spotify Connect!

If we want support for this, we should request/complain to Spotify, I guess. They are the ones who keep "Spotify Connect" a closed API.

Best regards,
Dennis.

verypsb
2015-07-27, 23:02
Switching Apps between listening to one track/album and the next simply is too cumbersome.

Yes, I agree, but I think that some people expect their devices/apps to behave exactly like this... So if a plugin would make this possible on LMS, I'm all for it.
But it all depends on Spotify, who need to open up their "Spotify Connect" API.

Best regards,
Dennis.

bernt
2015-07-28, 01:03
https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Publish-the-Spotify-Connect-Wireless-speaker-API/idi-p/520890

We ended the presentation with finally announcing that we’re opening up the Spotify Connect API to more vendors and developers very soon, creating endless possibilities to control and sync music context across apps and audio hardware.

https://developer.spotify.com/news-stories/2014/03/21/developer-brunch-sxsw-recap/

pippin
2015-07-28, 03:34
> I'd say: no chance. Use AirPlay/ShairTunes, it's the same thing.

Not quite: Spotify Direct doesn't need your phone to be around to
stream. It's streaming directly to the player.

Yes, I meant from a UX perspective.


Yes, I agree, but I think that some people expect their devices/apps to behave exactly like this...

Oh, I didn't mean to say it's a bad idea. I think it's the model of choice for around half of the users while it doesn't work at all for the other half.
My main point is: The Squeezebox shouldn't be the product of choice for such a setup, you can go with much simpler speakers then, no need for a server, an own library, lossless support and things like that.


https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Publish-the-Spotify-Connect-Wireless-speaker-API/idi-p/520890

We ended the presentation with finally announcing that we’re opening up the Spotify Connect API to more vendors and developers very soon, creating endless possibilities to control and sync music context across apps and audio hardware.

https://developer.spotify.com/news-stories/2014/03/21/developer-brunch-sxsw-recap/
Oh, all that means is that they dumped they original, hardware based "Spotify Connect" and replaced it with a software-based solution that can theoretically be integrated into a lot more devices.
It does not mean they provided an open API or give it to anyone, they are still being very restrictive on this.

ModelCitizen
2015-07-28, 03:41
I have a touch plugged into my Azatom iBigboy and find I am constantly switching between Aux In (Touch) and Bluetooth (streaming from Android phone). This is a pain and the Bluetooth sound quality (and volume level) is not great. This is why support for Spotify Connect would suit me.

pippin
2015-07-28, 04:19
Well, I could suggest a number of Apple products that actually work but you don't want these, too, so what shall I say...
It's as it is. You can ask Spotify to open up Spotify Connect but I'm not even sure they could do this if they wanted which they clearly don't. It would also probably have to go into the player which means a firmware change and a quite significant one given the way Spotify Connect works (it syncs everything you do with a backend, it's a bit like MySqueezebox.com without LMS and with local syncing), it would essentially mean the whole SqueezePlay would have to be replaced by a Connect Applet or something while you are using Spotify. I also don't I know whether the Touch and Radio have enough oomph to run that, all other devices definitely do not.

mherger
2015-07-28, 09:10
>> Not quite: Spotify Direct doesn't need your phone to be around to
>> stream. It's streaming directly to the player.
>>
> Yes, I meant from a UX perspective.

Well, that's a HUGE (in all uppercase letters) UX difference IMHO. I
could walk away with my phone without breaking playback in the living
room. That's closer to the SB experience than Airplay et al.

But we're getting off-topic. :-)

--

Michael

bernid
2015-07-28, 09:49
Come back triode, we miss you!:)

Peter314
2015-07-28, 14:25
+1
Where's the 'like' button when you need it...

ModelCitizen
2015-07-28, 16:37
Yes... Just 'me too'. Adrian wtf happened?

pippin
2015-07-28, 18:50
Well, that's a HUGE (in all uppercase letters) UX difference IMHO. I
could walk away with my phone without breaking playback in the living
room. That's closer to the SB experience than Airplay et al.


Hm. Are you sure? Doesn't it hand over back to the phone if the phone is out of reach from the Connect device? Doesn't the phone still talk to the device over WiFi even though the stream itself is not relayed from the phone to the player?