PDA

View Full Version : [Preview] iPeng on Apple Watch



pippin
2015-05-24, 07:29
I know that those of you with the Watch have been waiting for this.... Now, it's not on the App Store yet but close to being submitted. So I thought I'd start with a little preview....
And as usual with my iPeng previews, there are a few hints hidden in there although in this case they are pretty blunt...

18106

thouky
2015-05-24, 09:46
Looking superb. Hopefully it will be available soon. :-)

I'm currently using Workflow to provide basic control of LMS, but it will be great to have a more fully featured (and more reliable) app...
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/7ca06bf9c4da7cff73a27a8a9200a55f.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/3087e891d8b98b14e246a3f16dd4f299.jpg

pippin
2015-05-24, 16:25
Well, both "fully featured" and "reliable" are a bit of a challenge on the Watch, aren't they? Features that include long lists are a no-go on the Watch - they don't work well and are a nuisance to handle - and reliability strongly depends on the connection quality which isn't always a given.

For now I'm focussing on getting the basics to work well - NowPlaying, current playlist, selecting a player, a NowPlaying glance. You should easily see what's playing, be able to quickly turn on/off playback, change volume or skip to a new track. That's hard enough on the watch.
Things like volume control sound straightforward but aren't give iPeng usually supports group volume and I don't want to go back behind the operation mode on iPhone, user's won't understand why things work differently on the watch.

In addition to that there's some conflict between "add a deep menu structure" and "limit the additional features".

After the first version is out I plan to have a poll on which features make most sense and how many there should be - anything beyond four adds intermediate menu levels so makes the whole thing more complex to use.

Current candidates for additional features are:


Love/rate/star/add to favorites
Play from Favorites
Search and play from search results
Shuffle/Repeat/Random Mix


Given that two slots are currently taken by "power" and "select player" doing all of those is probably a no-go since it would take way to many interactions to actually do these things.

epoch1970
2015-05-25, 07:46
I suppose the watch doesn't know how to do it any better than a phone (...) but one use I'd see beyond mute/volume control/skip would be "follow me"...

(Honestly, I'm in the boat of those who dropped their watch when their mobile phone provided accurate time and decent battery life, and I don't see myself going back for the moment.)

pippin
2015-05-25, 08:22
Well, iPeng on the Watch does of course come with Quick Switch which is as close as I can see music following coming right now. Maybe if we once get direct access to the Bluetooth LE stack and can use iBeacons....

thouky
2015-05-25, 09:07
After the first version is out I plan to have a poll on which features make most sense and how many there should be - anything beyond four adds intermediate menu levels so makes the whole thing more complex to use.

Current candidates for additional features are:


Love/rate/star/add to favorites
Play from Favorites
Search and play from search results
Shuffle/Repeat/Random Mix



The middle two on that list are definitely the ones that I would request added to your initial feature set.

Can 'CLI macros' be added as favourites (like those in the KidsPlay plugin)? That would allow common operations for a particular user to be more convenient on the watch...

philippe_44
2015-05-25, 09:47
Well, iPeng on the Watch does of course come with Quick Switch which is as close as I can see music following coming right now. Maybe if we once get direct access to the Bluetooth LE stack and can use iBeacons....

Will probably sound silly, but "follow me" would be a feature for which I would buy a watch :) - no intention otherwise

pippin
2015-05-25, 10:42
The middle two on that list are definitely the ones that I would request added to your initial feature set.

Well, none of that will be in the _initial_ feature set :) I want to get some opinions first based on NowPlaying, playlist, player switching an power.

It was my original plan to add these two next but since then I found that what I really miss most is a rating feature (starring a track, specifically). If you use these, it's something you definitely want quick access to.

Favorites and Search are a bit problematic. They are good features but both are features only a subset of all users use at all. For those who do, it's of course important, for all others it's a wasted slot.
Long lists and browsing-style functionality generally is something that doesn't work well on the watch, it's really better for interaction-style functionality.



Can 'CLI macros' be added as favourites (like those in the KidsPlay plugin)? That would allow common operations for a particular user to be more convenient on the watch...

Yes, that would be an option, to allow users to define a set of features they want.
User defined "CLI" macros is probably not something I'm going to do. Only four or five users will ever use that but four or five hundred others will not understand it and keep bugging me with questions about it, it's the kind of features you can't afford to do on the App Store if you can't afford to hire a professional customer service.

Also... not everything on the watch works through CLI. A lot of use cases are highly App State dependent (starting playback on the iPhone alone was probably the single most complicated feature because you have to assume that the parent App is not even running.

This is generally the biggest difficulty in watch programming. Do a full cometd connect with status and all in iPeng takes 7s on average, that's totally unacceptable on the Watch, especially since the watch itself can easily need 5s to start the Watch App. Nobody waits 12s for something to happen on the watch....


Will probably sound silly, but "follow me" would be a feature for which I would buy a watch :) - no intention otherwise

Well, with QuickSwitch it's three clicks (plus two launching the App, assuming you go through the glance which is really the only sensible way to use a watch App).
To do it actively on the Watch would - first of all - requires something to actually run on the watch, something current WatchKit Apps can't do, the run entirely on the iPhone.

It really strongly reminds me of how the old Squeezeboxes work. There's too, you had to do absolutely everything on the server side and then send it over the network. That's exactly how the watch works.

pippin
2015-05-25, 10:50
OK, another image. The glance (since you asked no questions about all the features that are uncommon in the above screen shot; most of which only actual Watch users will have a chance of actually noticing, though, and even then maybe only if you know about WatchKit limitations...).

18116

For those who haven't used the Apple Watch: a glance is the only sensible way to enter an App on the Watch. It's a set of 12 Apps you can bring up easily from the watch face. It only shows information (it has no interactions), tapping it brings you to the actual App.
The idea behind is to quickly get a brief glance at some important information set, in this case the NowPlaying state.

The main reason why it's so important is that it's really cumbersome to launch an App from the main "home" screen. Finding the App there alone will usually take longer than you actually planned to use the thing, so in reality you alway go through your small set of glances. It also means you are probably not going to use 100 Apps on your watch but rather like 10 or so. And other than on the phone you are probably going to delete the ones you don't use.

pippin
2015-05-26, 22:19
Another day, another screen shot...

18129

Squeezemenicely
2015-05-27, 02:18
as you probably know, I am excitedly waiting for the release of iPeng on Apple Watch.

It is important to understand that the watch is perfect for basic info and commands. It is not a mini iPhone. Something some developers simply did wrong, in trying to add too much functionality and info on the tiny screen.

One would still use the iPhone to search the library and put together playlists, whilst the Watch is great for seeing what is running on the Squeezebox and seeing what is next. Or basic operations as pausing and skipping etc.
Adding too much functionality - could be a bad thing...

I would also like to see Favourites on the watch, making a quick selection of a radio station easy.

Many people wh have been complaining abot the watch have not quite understood that it is sort of a remote for the iPhone or an Addon, but not a fullfledged IOS device.

I never got the point of having your photo collection on your wrist. In a time when they are selling gigantic phones, to make looking at photos or surfing the web more fun, what is the point of looking at a photo the size of a stamp?!?
Also people wanting a webbrowser. Why??????


So for iPeng, I guess - less is more - quick access with few controls is better IMHO than many screens and functions that will only get it bloated.

The screenshots show that it is definitely doing it right and Pippin actually has and und understands the watch. So, I am counting the days...

pippin
2015-05-27, 05:25
It is important to understand that the watch is perfect for basic info and commands. It is not a mini iPhone. Something some developers simply did wrong, in trying to add too much functionality and info on the tiny screen.

Definitely. It's one of these things why I'm concerned about search. The idea looks cool and the voice rec. is not too bad but how to you proceed from there on? Only local search and then 5 albums, artists and track etc?
Lists longer than 20 items load so slowly that you are really holding up a lo of things of you do them although navigation lists is not too bad with the crown.

But what about MySB users then? Do they get Globalsearch instead and how does that fare with it's mile-deep menu structures?
There's also a technical aspect in that I chose a page-based App. This makes accessing the NowPlaying stuff and the current playlist easier - and we remember: that was the important part.
But it means you can not have hierarchical menus - nowhere. So I'd have to stack the whole menu hierarchy with modal views, that's really ugly.

So the current plan for search would be to have local search only and when I add that ickStream search (on ickStream I can directly access context so I can flatten out menu structures) you've got at least a few menus...

But do I really want to give up one of the 4 menu slots for that?
Currently I've got 5 features I'd want in there which is a problem :)



Also people wanting a webbrowser. Why??????

I believe these things will go away. Nobody has any real experience with these things so people experiment. In the long run the stuff for which the watch is really useful will evolve. My bet is on sports, notification stuff including interactive notifications (that's the killer feature, IMHO) and maybe - drumroll - remote control. I don't personally wear the watch a lot but if I do I actually use it for starting/stopping my Squeezeboxes because these quick actions are just much faster than on an iPhone or iPad. It really gets close to using device control, especially on the second use (when the App is already loaded).



The screenshots show that it is definitely doing it right and Pippin actually has and und understands the watch. So, I am counting the days...

Well, it's on Apple now...
To have the watch was important. I'd done a first design on the simulator and I threw it away, you really have to have the device to understand how it works. And what doesn't.

And you completely get priorities wrong. I tried to go with the system font and no scrolling labels in the first place because I thought it would speed thing up (don't notice any change now) but that really didn't work out well, the system font is optimized for legibility at small point sizes which means you can use a relatively small font to get more lines onto the screen. But at the expense of run length.
But on the NowPlaying screen I only have single lines of text (title, artist) which can be somewhat long so a tighter font with scrolling really was needed. (Hint: Apple does it but how many 3rd party Apps with scrolling text have you seen on the watch? :D It's pretty cool).

Looking forward I wonder what Apple will show for the Watch on WWDC. Full native Apps, I don't really believe it, yet, that may be a bit too early, that thing isn't really that stable, yet. Maybe improved controls first.
I'd really want a volume slider that supports the crown, that current thing using only buttons is really a bummer.

pippin
2015-05-28, 10:08
So, not a lot of news left but this one looks nice:

18141

Squeezemenicely
2015-05-29, 00:52
Oh yes it does! I especially like the bar!. You should invite us over for a drink.

pippin
2015-05-29, 15:41
Oh yes it does! I especially like the bar!. You should invite us over for a drink.

:)
Need to make a photo. There's indeed an SB3 standing in between all the bottles. And my old A2s around them.

pippin
2015-06-01, 03:57
While Apple are taking their time....

The full player switching sequence...
18183

ddewey
2015-06-01, 06:55
Quoting pippin (pippin.6xt0uo (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com):

>
> While Apple are taking their time....
>
> The full player switching sequence...
> 18183
>

I've been completely on the fence about the Apple Watch... you may
have sold another one for them. This might be the killer app to push
me over the edge. Thanks for continuing to work on iPeng!

epoch1970
2015-06-06, 05:07
As you've been asking for suggestions...
I've always regretted the playlist wouldn't keep history of played songs.
Now we have the brilliant "what was that tune?" plugin which serves this purpose. I don't use it much but why I need it, it's here. And I esp. like the fact it also works with radios.

Perhaps on the watch, you could merge played history and play queue to take care of two intents in one swell foop?

(as I said: you asked. And, BTW, this last preview pic does look good indeed.)

pippin
2015-06-06, 08:12
Hm, I'm not sure the watch is the right device for this. It's usually stateless and not good for long lists. This isn't something particularly urgent, isn't it? Wouldn't you rather look something like that up on the phone?

pippin
2015-06-06, 08:13
In other news: the review times at Apple right now are really annoying. Two weeks is too much.

epoch1970
2015-06-06, 08:49
Hm, I'm not sure the watch is the right device for this. It's usually stateless and not good for long lists. This isn't something particularly urgent, isn't it? Wouldn't you rather look something like that up on the phone?
Well, if you were to give a positive response to the suggestion, my 2nd move would have been to ask you to port it to iPad ;) --I've no interest in an iWatch.
And of course it is not urgent!

pippin
2015-06-06, 09:01
Well, iPad/iPhone is something indeed worth considering. Could you file a ticket?

epoch1970
2015-06-06, 10:08
Well, iPad/iPhone is something indeed worth considering. Could you file a ticket?
Done: #529 - new - minor - Jun 6, 2015 - Merged display of past (what was that tune?) and future (active playlist) songs

I'm not really used to declaring bugs against iPeng! But seemingly I did already once, and my browser remembered a password ;)

pippin
2015-06-06, 10:29
Great, thanks. This will require quite a redesign of the playlist display but if I ever do that for performance reasons (with long PLs the current solution can be a performance hog) it's a cool idea!

Squeezemenicely
2015-06-06, 14:31
In other news: the review times at Apple right now are really annoying. Two weeks is too much.

That is totally ridiculous. Hope it will be released soon.

pippin
2015-06-06, 15:24
It's actually now _in review_ for almost 24h. Think they started it and then went in for the weekend so probably Monday....

thouky
2015-06-07, 08:09
Yay! It's available (from the UK App Store). :-)

Viewing the current playback status, play/pause, changing between tracks on the current playlist and adjusting the volume all work well on the watch (although it would be nicer to use the crown for the latter). Selecting the player to control and turning it on/off works but is rather more clunky. First their is a user interface issue in that the player selection screen doesn't indicate which of the players are currently powered. Secondly, the power control screen doesn't always provide appropriate options. After switching a player off there is no option to switch it back on; the only options are to turn off that player, turn off the group, and turn off all players. Even if that were fixed it would still be quite a long sequence to switch some players on and others off - I would much rather have a player on/off option instead of (or in addition to) the Quick Switch Current Playlist.

Otherwise this is a great first version for the watch. The only feature that is missing from my perspective is the ability to select something to play. I appreciate the problem with long lists so would be happy with the ability to select a Favourite or a Dynamic Playlist... although a voice search would be great (especially if it had some limited intelligence so that it could just find and play the track like Siri can with the iPhone's music).

pippin
2015-06-07, 09:32
(although it would be nicer to use the crown for the latter)

Definitely. Apple has said "September/October". Essentially, when iOS 9 comes out, I'd say. "Developer Preview" coming up tomorrow.



First their is a user interface issue in that the player selection screen doesn't indicate which of the players are currently powered.

Yes, and that's not going to change. The reason is simple: iPeng doesn't know.
That's the big difference between the full iOS App and the Watch App. The iOS App - while it's running - has a full connection to the server and monitors the full state of all players. But to set that up takes 7s and causes quite a bit of load on the server (meaning it also holds up everything else) so it's not an option. The Watch extension gets the state for the current player but not more.



Secondly, the power control screen doesn't always provide appropriate options. After switching a player off there is no option to switch it back on; the only options are to turn off that player, turn off the group, and turn off all players.

I'll have to check for that. This should not be, the _current_ player should switch to turning on. For Group and "All" there's only "Power Off" because the state of the other players is not known.

I think for more complex operations like turning on several players and so on... that's probably something you want to do on the phone.
This function is there to quickly silence a group or - more importantly - everything if you leave the home so that you don't have to pull out your phone for that.



Otherwise this is a great first version for the watch. The only feature that is missing from my perspective is the ability to select something to play. I appreciate the problem with long lists so would be happy with the ability to select a Favourite or a Dynamic Playlist... although a voice search would be great (especially if it had some limited intelligence so that it could just find and play the track like Siri can with the iPhone's music).
Yes, that's a plan. I'm probably going to introduce a 3rd page for that to get around the limitation of 4 items for the context menu.
We'll see how well the full text search in LMS 7.9 does in connection with the Voice Recognition (this is not Siri, it's actually Dictation, you can't access Siri from an App).

Squeezemenicely
2015-06-07, 10:01
It arrived, just installed and am impressed! Being able to check what is playing and skipping from your wrist, is incredibly cool. Thanks!

Personally I would not include voicesearch. I do not think it is worth it on the watch. Plus album titles are often in other languages. Being in Germany would dictation be able to understand English, French and Italian titles - probably not. It would only be irritating. Just do that with your iPhone - much easier.
Who would sit there talking to his watch, whilst listening to music anyway?!?

Squeezemenicely
2015-06-07, 10:06
18231
So cool!

pippin
2015-06-07, 10:20
Where's that "like"-button when you need it?

epoch1970
2015-06-08, 12:34
Well, 2.0 w/ native apps starts to get interesting. I've spotted timetravel (for the playlist?) and wifi+homekit+microphone (for location?)
Also, if you keep specializing for the watch, and the watch proves indeed largely autonomous, I think you should consider pricing the app separately.

(I'm still not buying an iWatch. Yet.)

pippin
2015-06-08, 15:21
Well, 2.0 w/ native apps starts to get interesting. I've spotted timetravel (for the playlist?)
It's harder than it sounds. The timeline is fixed and updating it requires a push notification. This requires some experimenting


wifi+homekit+microphone (for location?)
I thought about that one, too. Will have to see when and how homekit actually hits the market


Also, if you keep specializing for the watch, and the watch proves indeed largely autonomous, I think you should consider pricing the app separately.
As far as I can see Apple still has no acceptable way to do that. One would have to break down that little functionality on the watch into a base functionality and something enabled through an In-App-Purchase. Hm... Not good

epoch1970
2015-06-09, 05:55
I thought about that one, too. Will have to see when and how homekit actually hits the market

Methinks Apple's going to push; They started boasting proactive behaviour in iOS, and I doubt time-of-day and the like are sufficient to make inference relevant enough; I'd bet you need location too, and not by the mile, but by the meter. And working without GPS line of sight.

My iPhone still runs iOS5, it has their Reminder.app which proactively notifies (tries to); In my urban environment it is so slow to catch up with new locations that notifs rarely arrive in due time. The thing mostly serves reminding me I missed doing something important ;)

In conjunction, would be great if someone started a bayesian plugin for LMS (or ickStream...). Echonest is good, but somehow I doubt it cares for storing the local time of day and player name used to make a query.

)p(
2015-06-11, 04:53
Well, 2.0 w/ native apps starts to get interesting. I've spotted timetravel (for the playlist?) and wifi+homekit+microphone (for location?)
Also, if you keep specializing for the watch, and the watch proves indeed largely autonomous, I think you should consider pricing the app separately.

(I'm still not buying an iWatch. Yet.)

Also the custom complications in 2.0 sounds like a good way to always have one tap access to ipeng on the watch from the watch face?

pippin
2015-06-11, 10:17
Yea, I'll have to see. The problem with the complications is that you can't update them on demand so if it e.g. Shows the current track and you skip it would get out of sync.

pufnstuf
2015-06-12, 15:09
ok I'm so excited now as my Apple Watch will arrive on Tuesday and the first app I'll be trying is.... that's right iPeng!!! These screens look great. Well done Pippin!

Is there any trick to it, or will all my settings etc just show up in the Peng interface?

pippin
2015-06-12, 17:34
There's really nothing you need to or even can configure.
Just install it using the Watch companion App and also make sure to enable the Glance (you'll know how to do that when you've set up your Watch)

pufnstuf
2015-06-15, 20:48
There's really nothing you need to or even can configure.
Just install it using the Watch companion App and also make sure to enable the Glance (you'll know how to do that when you've set up your Watch)

You were correct (of course!) it was very straightforward. Thank you - it's great!!

Does anyone else have lots of trouble getting Siri to open the iPeng app? Siri keeps trying to open "iPad" or "IP"... please help. :D

dborod
2015-06-15, 20:50
Well, both "fully featured" and "reliable" are a bit of a challenge on the Watch, aren't they? Features that include long lists are a no-go on the Watch - they don't work well and are a nuisance to handle - and reliability strongly depends on the connection quality which isn't always a given.

For now I'm focussing on getting the basics to work well - NowPlaying, current playlist, selecting a player, a NowPlaying glance. You should easily see what's playing, be able to quickly turn on/off playback, change volume or skip to a new track. That's hard enough on the watch.
Things like volume control sound straightforward but aren't give iPeng usually supports group volume and I don't want to go back behind the operation mode on iPhone, user's won't understand why things work differently on the watch.

In addition to that there's some conflict between "add a deep menu structure" and "limit the additional features".

After the first version is out I plan to have a poll on which features make most sense and how many there should be - anything beyond four adds intermediate menu levels so makes the whole thing more complex to use.

Current candidates for additional features are:


Love/rate/star/add to favorites
Play from Favorites
Search and play from search results
Shuffle/Repeat/Random Mix


Given that two slots are currently taken by "power" and "select player" doing all of those is probably a no-go since it would take way to many interactions to actually do these things.

Starting this thread from the beginning, since my watch just arrived, I question, personally, the utility of the "Power" function as one of the 4 precious force-tap items.

I will keep reading this thread...

dborod
2015-06-15, 20:53
[QUOTE=pippin;819288]Well, none of that will be in the _initial_ feature set :) I want to get some opinions first based on NowPlaying, playlist, player switching an power.[QUOTE]

I'm all for the ability to rate the now playing track and to to add it to favourites.

pippin
2015-06-16, 10:28
Does anyone else have lots of trouble getting Siri to open the iPeng app? Siri keeps trying to open "iPad" or "IP"... please help. :D

After it's installed? You might want to not speak too fast for Siri, she has a tendency to try to combine all the syllables to find a match in that case, if there's a pause between words she uses that into.


Starting this thread from the beginning, since my watch just arrived, I question, personally, the utility of the "Power" function as one of the 4 precious force-tap items.


Well, it comes in handy if you just want to shut down the music while leaving home. That's actually how I use it.

straightc
2015-09-13, 07:01
Looking superb. Hopefully it will be available soon. :-)

I'm currently using Workflow to provide basic control of LMS, but it will be great to have a more fully featured (and more reliable) app...
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/7ca06bf9c4da7cff73a27a8a9200a55f.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/3087e891d8b98b14e246a3f16dd4f299.jpg

I played around with this for a little bit and I ending up running scripts via SSH to telnet and then issue commands via the CLI interface. Was curious if you did this a different way and how? Could you provide an example of how you used Workflow to execute LMS commands?

thouky
2015-09-13, 07:32
I'm currently using Workflow to provide basic control of LMS, but it will be great to have a more fully featured (and more reliable) app...
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/7ca06bf9c4da7cff73a27a8a9200a55f.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/3087e891d8b98b14e246a3f16dd4f299.jpg

I played around with this for a little bit and I ending up running scripts via SSH to telnet and then issue commands via the CLI interface. Was curious if you did this a different way and how? Could you provide an example of how you used Workflow to execute LMS commands?

I am using the Get Contents of URL action to drive LMS's "Command Line Interface" directly from the iPhone. There's no need to use SSH (which I find to be a little bit flaky from Workflow).

You can find one of the workflows that I use at https://workflow.is/workflows/09e084c48ccb4b3f8a93ca641655b0a6 and attached to this post. A few notes:

The URL action near the top specifies the base URL that is used for all CLI requests. The hostname part of the URL will obviously need to be changed to point at your server.
The Text action below that has a list of commands that ensure my three most commonly used players are all switched on, and that the volume is set to a default level on two of them (the other one is connected to an external amplifier via its digital output). There's a Repeat with Each loop that issues each command in sequence using the Get Contents of URL action.
The List action provides the menu of things to play:

The ones starting with BBC are internet radio streams. The second Text provides a mapping from the radio station names to URLs. The third Text action constructs the CLI URL to start playing that stream.
The other menu items are names of Dynamic (SQL) Playlists. The fourth Text action constructs the CLI URL to start playing one of those.



Of course, we only have to wait until Wednesday next week (16th September) for watchOS 2 which should allow for a native iPeng watch app... ;)

pippin
2016-01-11, 22:09
A little update because I'm getting questions on a watchOS 2 version of the iPeng Watch App.

I have experimented with this quite a bit and I want to share my findings.
The decision to switch to a native watchOS 2 App or not is unfortunately not as straightforward as it looks at first glance.

There are several aspects impacting the decision and people generally expect improvements through the use of watchOS 2:


Performance
Support using the crown and sensor access
Being able to run Apps when the watch is unavailable
Additional features like browsing content
Design improvements


Unfortunately it turns out that in reality not all these points profit from a switch to watchOS 2.

Performance

Performance is the first and most important point here. Most users expected the performance, especially the start time to improve for watchOS 2 Apps but unfortunately the opposite is true. With watchOS 1 the actual App is running on the iPhone and the watch only launches a set of resources. Turns out the bottleneck in the whole process is not the (fast) iPhone but the slow processor and memory on the watch. watchOS 2 Apps are generally bigger and have to run initialization code on the watch so they take LONGER to launch.

This is bad.

What is worse, though, is that actually doing things on the watch is also slow and there are things you can't do at all. For example, iPeng has these scrolling titles to show titles that don't fully fit the screen. These can't get rendered on the watch so if the App actually runs on the watch it still needs to call the phone for that and this is now not just an upload but a roundtrip and takes longer than before.
The same is true for generating the background images, scaling images, communicating with MySqueezebox.com (communicating with local servers works directly from the watch), changing players and some other functionality.

There is one aspect where things are easier on the watch which is memory use. watchOS 2 Apps can use more memory than watchOS 1 Apps on the phone could but then on the phone it was always easy (and fast) to use the main App which is even less memory restricted.

So from a performance standpoint moving to watchOS 2 would be a step backwards

Access to crown and sensors

Being able to change the volume using the crown would actually be the most important improvement in a watchOS 2 App and it's actually the one single reason I still consider it.
Sensors... iPeng is not a health or sports App. Period.

Being able to run Apps when the watch is unavailable

Also almost a nonstarter. There are a few edge cases where this might work (App already launched and track doesn't skip and,...) but in most cases the watch App still needs information from the phone.

Additional features

Feature implementation is actually more constrained by what makes sense on the UI than where the App runs. Actually having worse performance doesn't really help, too.

Design

Dis is actually another aspect haunting me a bit. scrolling labels. Blurred backgrounds. Exactly scaled images (bad scaling has a tendency to _really_ look bad on the watch and it comes in two different resolutions). All of this has to be done by the companion App on the phone even in watchOS 2 and this means it creates a roundtrip impacting performance.


So... in the end it boils down whether I'm willing to accept worse performance to be able to use the crown.
For now I have decided to stick to the watchOS 1 version for a little longer. Maybe Apple finds ways to improve performance on the watch or adds at least some graphics functionality and that will make it easier but for now I feel like the watch is slow enough to require every bit of performance optimization I can get and using watchOS 2 really doesn't help with that.

epoch1970
2016-01-12, 03:19
s/Being able to run Apps when the watch is unavailable/Being able to run Apps when the iPhone is unavailable/g ?

How far is the hardware revision, realistically? I expect gains in battery/efficency will improve the performance side.

-- from a non-user

pippin
2016-01-12, 09:33
s/Being able to run Apps when the watch is unavailable/Being able to run Apps when the iPhone is unavailable/g ?

Well, the main problem here is that there is so much you need to do on the phone right now.
I could run it independently if I dropped all advanced UI and artwork display and limit communication to local servers and not allow switching players.... Hm... 90% of the functionality gone but you might be able to play/pause/change volume. But how to explain the different UI to users?
Do I drop all that UI functionality completely?

I think we'll have to wait at least until apple enables graphics rendering on the device although the more complicated communication issues still stay.



How far is the hardware revision, realistically? I expect gains in battery/efficency will improve the performance side.


You mean the rumored-about second-generation Apple Watch? Hard to tell. I still can't believe they are really bringing it this year because that would so severely devalue the first generation and IMHO kill their effort to position the watch as a luxury accessory.

But then... They haven't really been successful in making people use this thing for anything else than as a sports watch on a larger scale so they might as well drop these higher-priced versions (or just not care about them) and focus on the cheaper sports watch.
If these rumors are true then the new watch will be slimmer and have more sensors leaving little room for a more power-consuming processor and RAM (the slow RAM is one of the primary reasons for the lack of performance) or the addition of a stronger GPU. I guess in that case it will probably have somewhat similar performance and battery life with a smaller battery.
OTOH battery performance hasn't turned out to be that big problem everybody expected (although that's probably to a certain degree because people simply don't use a lot of Apps so overall active time is short) and maybe they could accept a somewhat shorter battery life with an Apple Watch 2.
I guess we'll see...

epoch1970
2016-01-12, 10:15
You mean the rumored-about second-generation Apple Watch? Hard to tell. I still can't believe they are really bringing it this year because that would so severely devalue the first generation and IMHO kill their effort to position the watch as a luxury accessory.
They could very well change everything inside, and nothing outside except for new bracelet colors or such. Then people w/ a V1 wouldn't have to cower in shame when they come across someone with a V2.
Regarding depreciation, such a V2 wouldn't be much of a problem for people who own an Entry V1 ("what can you expect?") or Premium V1 ("I needed a new one anyway"). Middle-market customers could be slightly peeved.
As you say, we'll see.

pippin
2016-01-12, 12:48
They could very well change everything inside, and nothing outside except for new bracelet colors or such. Then people w/ a V1 wouldn't have to cower in shame when they come across someone with a V2.

Yes, but that's not what the rumors say. These rumors say it's much slimmer.
And if I ignore the rumors I'd say they're going to wait another year.



Regarding depreciation, such a V2 wouldn't be much of a problem for people who own an Entry V1 ("what can you expect?") or Premium V1 ("I needed a new one anyway"). Middle-market customers could be slightly peeved.


I'm not su sure. Most people I've met who have bought one - even a lot of Apple fanboys - are pretty disappointed, not sure many of them will immediately want to spend another few hundred bucks after a year.
I'm actually a bit mixed. I always though that this is no product for me as I'm not the kind of person turning on notifications in all Apps and I also don't count steps, calories and so on.
I actually find myself using it more often than I thought because I like it for sports (I stopped mounting my phone to my bicycle's handle bar and now use the watch instead for speed etc.) and I'm fine with it showing outside temperature and time.
But that's the kind of functionality I definitely wouldn't spend again for, especially not as much as that thing costs.

I rarely ever wear it indoors so unfortunately I'm not even using it with iPeng a lot although I sometimes do when I have guests because that way skipping tracks or changing volume is less immersive than getting you iPad out....

epoch1970
2016-01-12, 17:04
Well then. You "have the app" already, so you just have to wait for Apple to make a more capable device. Then app developers will make it a compelling device (maybe.)
Personally I find these wristwatch reboots totally out of place. But at the same time I can't see how we could do without wearable computers in the near future. Hence I doubt Apple will drop the product, I believe they will (try to) improve it.

In the meantime, why don't you reinvent the itunes visualizer on the aTV4... Oh well, maybe not. But here is one OK device in need of a few good apps :)

pippin
2016-01-12, 23:37
iPeng for AppleTV will come, initially as a player only.

But that's another platform I'm not totally convinced of. The remote is a real mess and the whole thing is too complicated to navigate.
Actually similar problems to the Watch. Apple forgot to care about UI and usability.
And that means something!

Squeezemenicely
2016-01-16, 04:38
So from a performance standpoint moving to watchOS 2 would be a step backwards

Access to crown and sensors

Being able to change the volume using the crown would actually be the most important improvement in a watchOS 2 App and it's actually the one single reason I still consider it.




Being a heavy user of your Watch App from Day 1, I believe the most important part of the iPeng is performance - by far! So, if changing over to OS2 means slowing down start and performance of the Watchapp, then please do not do it.
Especially if the only improvement would be, being able to have volume control using the crown - how often do you really change the volume? What is the point? The other functions are used so much more and having them slowed down would be a killer (in a bad way).

pippin
2016-01-16, 06:16
Well, may be just me but _I_ do sometimes change the volume using the watch, for example when you are talking with guests and want to quickly tune down (or up...).
My biggest problem with thins right now is not that it's slow but it lacks granularity so I would actually love to be able to use the crown.
Let's hope the newer rumors are true that it's not a 2nd generation Watch Apple is going to present this quarter but an improved software iteration.... All these rumors about Apple products all the time... ;)

Squeezemenicely
2016-01-16, 11:04
so I would actually love to be able to use the crown.


Well, yes it would be nice to have - but not if the rest is moreless unusable then ;-)


Yes I do also hope it will be new software and not hardware. The watch, especially the more expensive models are not really the sort of thing you want to become antique in not even 1 year...

I really like mine and use it all the time. Messaging when I am at work not being able to check my phone is great. Then Hue and iPeng - all is good for me.
Had a Pebble before and except for battery life, which is a non issue for me, the watch is in a completely different ballpark and a great gadget. So, see what happens.

bluetdi
2018-05-05, 23:26
Any news on iPing for the AW? Last post was in January 2016, there should be some development, for example the Favorites-screen or setting volume with the crown.

pippin
2018-05-06, 17:02
Next update is ready on the watch (no favorites, yet, but itís a watchOS 3/4 app that runs on the watch and uses the crown).
Right now the update is delayed because we also need to make some changes due to GDPR, we want to do this right.