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CatBus
2015-05-05, 08:49
So, lucky me, every Squeezebox I own is still 100% functional. But I know eventually something's going to break, and dammit I really like these things. So to prepare myself for that dreadful day, I wanted to write out my personal feature wishlist (sort of prioritized), and see what's out there that best matches what I want.

1. Ogg Vorbis support. Yeah, let's start with a curveball, shall we? 100% of my music is in Ogg Vorbis format, so good support is a must, but on-the-fly transcoding is fine.
2. Gapless playback
3. Multi-device sync (without breaking gapless playback!)
4. Multi-tagging + ALBUMARTIST support
5. Replaygain support
6. Ability to play Internet streams (i.e. radio stations)
7. Ability to control playback from and show Now Playing info/visualizations on that device
8. IR remote support

As far as what's out there: for packaged products, we have Sonos, Olive, and various DLNA implementations (anything else?). Then, for projects, we have, AFAICT, various ways to run SqueezeLite--on a Raspberry Pi, on an HTPC, on a tablet, etc.

First off, did I miss anything? Secondly, how well do each of these replacements stack up, relative to an actual Squeezebox? If I understand correctly, #2, #3, and #4 are hard to come by in packaged products, and #7 and #8 might be hard to accomplish via SqueezeLite. I could probably handle #7 and #8 via the SlimServer web interface (or some other interface) on a phone or tablet, although I really do strongly prefer using the IR remote control over the web interface.

castalla
2015-05-05, 10:11
So, lucky me, every Squeezebox I own is still 100% functional. But I know eventually something's going to break, and dammit I really like these things. So to prepare myself for that dreadful day, I wanted to write out my personal feature wishlist (sort of prioritized), and see what's out there that best matches what I want.

1. Ogg Vorbis support. Yeah, let's start with a curveball, shall we? 100% of my music is in Ogg Vorbis format, so good support is a must, but on-the-fly transcoding is fine.
2. Gapless playback
3. Multi-device sync (without breaking gapless playback!)
4. Multi-tagging + ALBUMARTIST support
5. Replaygain support
6. Ability to play Internet streams (i.e. radio stations)
7. Ability to control playback from and show Now Playing info/visualizations on that device
8. IR remote support

As far as what's out there: for packaged products, we have Sonos, Olive, and various DLNA implementations (anything else?). Then, for projects, we have, AFAICT, various ways to run SqueezeLite--on a Raspberry Pi, on an HTPC, on a tablet, etc.

First off, did I miss anything? Secondly, how well do each of these replacements stack up, relative to an actual Squeezebox? If I understand correctly, #2, #3, and #4 are hard to come by in packaged products, and #7 and #8 might be hard to accomplish via SqueezeLite. I could probably handle #7 and #8 via the SlimServer web interface (or some other interface) on a phone or tablet, although I really do strongly prefer using the IR remote control over the web interface.

Joggler with sqpOS - a cheap Touch replacement.

CatBus
2015-05-05, 10:46
Joggler with sqpOS - a cheap Touch replacement.

Never used SqueezePlay--how does sqpOS/SqueezePlay handle playback controls? i.e. does it have its own controls, or does it rely on your using a separate control interface via something like a web browser? What about Now Playing info? Screenshots may be a better way to show me how it works, but I haven't really found any good ones.

Like the touchscreen integration, though. Not usable from a distance like an IR remote, but pretty cool nevertheless.

FWIW, I'm very comfortable with software hacks, hardware hacks much less so--so I was leaning toward a Tablet running SqueezePlay and attempting to get an external IR receiver to function over USB or somesuch.

EDIT: I'm also assuming SoftSqueeze is dead, but if it's usable I could consider that. I don't mind running an old version of Java on some dedicated utility machine if that's what it takes. I certainly do like the UI options on it.

Man in a van
2015-05-05, 14:11
Never used SqueezePlay--how does sqpOS/SqueezePlay handle playback controls? i.e. does it have its own controls, or does it rely on your using a separate control interface via something like a web browser? What about Now Playing info? Screenshots may be a better way to show me how it works, but I haven't really found any good ones.

Like the touchscreen integration, though. Not usable from a distance like an IR remote, but pretty cool nevertheless.

FWIW, I'm very comfortable with software hacks, hardware hacks much less so--so I was leaning toward a Tablet running SqueezePlay and attempting to get an external IR receiver to function over USB or somesuch.

EDIT: I'm also assuming SoftSqueeze is dead, but if it's usable I could consider that. I don't mind running an old version of Java on some dedicated utility machine if that's what it takes. I certainly do like the UI options on it.



Are you in the former commonwealth, or the UK?

Best way is to try a Joggler

atb

Ronnie.

CatBus
2015-05-05, 14:22
Are you in the former commonwealth, or the UK?

Former colonies, I'm afraid. I'm looking up various Raspberry Pi projects ATM, but having a Joggler or two shipped over wouldn't be out of the question.

tcutting
2015-05-05, 15:21
So, lucky me, every Squeezebox I own is still 100% functional. But I know eventually something's going to break, and dammit I really like these things. So to prepare myself for that dreadful day, I wanted to write out my personal feature wishlist (sort of prioritized), and see what's out there that best matches what I want.

1. Ogg Vorbis support. Yeah, let's start with a curveball, shall we? 100% of my music is in Ogg Vorbis format, so good support is a must, but on-the-fly transcoding is fine.
2. Gapless playback
3. Multi-device sync (without breaking gapless playback!)
4. Multi-tagging + ALBUMARTIST support
5. Replaygain support
6. Ability to play Internet streams (i.e. radio stations)
7. Ability to control playback from and show Now Playing info/visualizations on that device
8. IR remote support

As far as what's out there: for packaged products, we have Sonos, Olive, and various DLNA implementations (anything else?). Then, for projects, we have, AFAICT, various ways to run SqueezeLite--on a Raspberry Pi, on an HTPC, on a tablet, etc.

First off, did I miss anything? Secondly, how well do each of these replacements stack up, relative to an actual Squeezebox? If I understand correctly, #2, #3, and #4 are hard to come by in packaged products, and #7 and #8 might be hard to accomplish via SqueezeLite. I could probably handle #7 and #8 via the SlimServer web interface (or some other interface) on a phone or tablet, although I really do strongly prefer using the IR remote control over the web interface.

I've got an RPi running squeezelite and jivelite (using SqueezeOnArch). jivelite responds to keyboard commands to navigate, and use FLIRC and a media center remote to generate the psuedo key-presses from an IR remote. I have an LCD screen (same resolution as Joggler, so can use the Joggler skin in jivelite) connected via HDMI. HiFiBerryPi AMP+ to some passive speakers - almost a "Boom2". Haven't figured out how to add visualizations, but the menus work OK, and Now Playing screen.

CatBus
2015-05-05, 15:51
I've got an RPi running squeezelite and jivelite (using SqueezeOnArch). jivelite responds to keyboard commands to navigate, and use FLIRC and a media center remote to generate the psuedo key-presses from an IR remote. I have an LCD screen (same resolution as Joggler, so can use the Joggler skin in jivelite) connected via HDMI. HiFiBerryPi AMP+ to some passive speakers - almost a "Boom2". Haven't figured out how to add visualizations, but the menus work OK, and Now Playing screen.

Wow... that is... wow, it sounds like exactly what I want. Thanks for the pointers.

Okay, so I've never done any of this before though. I'm certainly game to try, but it's all new, so bear with my newbness.

The Raspberry Pi--it's always just a board, no enclosure, right? Are there multiple versions? Are there people who make enclosures that would be applicable to this sort of use? One of my locations is not remotely safe for exposed circuits, the others may be able to handle it. How do you, you know, keep it safe?

Small LCD screens seem to be tough to locate. I really only need 4-7", what do you suggest, and how do you connect it up to the Pi?

HiFiBerry.com seems unresponsive at the moment, I'm assuming you'd only need the DAC+ to feed to a receiver or active speakers, correct?

I figured visualizations would be the hardest part. If SoftSqueeze could be made to work, I suppose I could run that, or maybe even a second, silent, synced player showing nothing but a visualization.

And, squeezelite is the player app and jivelite is the remote app, right? Can't squeezelite be controlled directly by keypresses? Maybe I'm confused about what these things do.

EDIT: and are there any restrictions on which IR receivers will work with the Pi?

Man in a van
2015-05-06, 00:38
Wow... that is... wow, it sounds like exactly what I want. Thanks for the pointers.

Okay, so I've never done any of this before though. I'm certainly game to try, but it's all new, so bear with my newbness.

The Raspberry Pi--it's always just a board, no enclosure, right? Are there multiple versions? Are there people who make enclosures that would be applicable to this sort of use? One of my locations is not remotely safe for exposed circuits, the others may be able to handle it. How do you, you know, keep it safe?

Small LCD screens seem to be tough to locate. I really only need 4-7", what do you suggest, and how do you connect it up to the Pi?

HiFiBerry.com seems unresponsive at the moment, I'm assuming you'd only need the DAC+ to feed to a receiver or active speakers, correct?

I figured visualizations would be the hardest part. If SoftSqueeze could be made to work, I suppose I could run that, or maybe even a second, silent, synced player showing nothing but a visualization.

And, squeezelite is the player app and jivelite is the remote app, right? Can't squeezelite be controlled directly by keypresses? Maybe I'm confused about what these things do.

EDIT: and are there any restrictions on which IR receivers will work with the Pi?



I recommend iQAudio dac over the Hifiberry option.

An rpi 2 is a good opton, can be powered by a battery (don't know about 'safe' enclosures)

Look on Tindie.

A Joggler can do all the control you may want (I have not managed to get one to work from a battery yet, but would imagine a dc/dc converter would work).

Read over here, Pete is your side of the water and very helpful

http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2177

the link is just to put you on the right forum user.

atb

Ronnie

atrocity
2015-05-06, 07:22
I could probably handle #7 and #8 via the SlimServer web interface (or some other interface) on a phone or tablet, although I really do strongly prefer using the IR remote control over the web interface.

We all prefer what we prefer and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you've never tried using one of the smartphone control apps I'd strongly suggest that you try one. You might be pleasantly surprised. It's really the best of both worlds in that it's small and handheld like an IR remote but considerably more flexible because of the screen.

I'm fortunate in that all my official products still work as well (though one has a dying IR sensor), but I've been playing with Wandboards and RPis. I really appreciate the fact that a Wandboard Quad makes a great player (up to 24/192 out of the box) *and* server. For boring reasons, I run multiple servers and they've all been Wandboards for a while now.

CatBus
2015-05-06, 10:11
Thanks for all of the responses so far. I've got some good starting points for research and experimentation.

It seems we're all in the same boat together--thanks to all who had the time and knowledge to scope out this path a bit before me.

Seems quite a needless shame that no commercial product really fills the gap left by the Squeezebox line.

Ikabob
2015-05-09, 05:55
Wouldn't it be nice if we could convince Logitech to begin production of the Squeezebox Line again.
I believe they'd really be able to market them to bring in a very big profit.
The Squeezeboxes are irreplaceable. I'd be totally lost without all the beautiful entertainment that my Squeezebox ecosystem brings into our home.
Let's ask LOGITECH to make them again!

pippin
2015-05-09, 06:08
With which team would they make them?

garym
2015-05-09, 07:13
With which team would they make them?

No more vacations for Michael. :p

pippin
2015-05-09, 07:48
Michael is still no hardware team.

alfista
2015-05-09, 23:56
I believe they'd really be able to market them to bring in a very big profit.

Can you present a market analysis backing that?

poing
2015-05-10, 00:32
Can you present a market analysis backing that?
I think there are two developments which would make a market analysis interesting. First, the market exploded shortly after Logitech exited. Second, the products offered on the market changed.

The first development is obvious. A lot more people want networked audio and companies like Sonos are doing well. You can quantify the size of the market by looking at sales volumes.

The second development is that the variety of networked audio systems available has increased and some solutions out there are pretty mature. Also, I'd argue that the systems which focus on streaming (as opposed to local content in a client-server model) have been able to catch up as streaming services have become ubiquitous. Thus, the competition is fiercer than back in the day, making a re-entry by Logitech less profitable.

I'm not sure which development dominates. In some sense, the two developments are also intertwined. In a larger market, more niche products tend to survive. So maybe Logitech with its Squeezebox ecosystem has enough of a unique product to succeed. It's also interesting to see that other firms still find it worthwhile to enter the market. E.g., look at LG which just came out which a bunch of Google Cast for Audio networked speakers.

jimmypowder
2015-05-16, 09:59
Auralic mini .

axelwin
2015-05-16, 13:21
Auralic mini .

Yep, sounds really good replacement solution to old SBT, more informations here : http://www.audiostream.com/content/auralic-ariesmini
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/auralic-launch-aries-mini-streamer-at-munich-high-end-2015/

> Internal DAC
> compatible with streaming services (like Qobuz)
> DSD compatible
> internal hard drive can be added
> $400 only
> sound quality potentially close to much more expensive streamer + dac system

riffer
2015-05-16, 13:53
Yep, sounds really good replacement solution to old SBT, more informations here : http://www.audiostream.com/content/auralic-ariesmini
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/auralic-launch-aries-mini-streamer-at-munich-high-end-2015/

> Internal DAC
> compatible with streaming services (like Qobuz)
> DSD compatible
> internal hard drive can be added
> $400 only
> sound quality potentially close to much more expensive streamer + dac system

I think it will all come down to the interface. Can their "Control App" match LMS?

jimmypowder
2015-05-17, 04:51
I think it will all come down to the interface. Can their "Control App" match LMS?

Not at this point . I have an Aries and while it's not as buggy as the first software server from Slim Devices it's not as fully developed yet .

cathcam
2015-05-19, 10:38
Yep, sounds really good replacement solution to old SBT, more informations here : http://www.audiostream.com/content/auralic-ariesmini
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/auralic-launch-aries-mini-streamer-at-munich-high-end-2015/


How does this work with an LMS?

Assuming my music is on a NAS that is ethernet attached to the same LAN as the ariesmini and normally played via the LMS running on the NAS.

cathcam
2015-05-19, 10:40
Wouldn't it be nice if we could convince Logitech to begin production of the Squeezebox Line again.
I believe they'd really be able to market them to bring in a very big profit.
The Squeezeboxes are irreplaceable. I'd be totally lost without all the beautiful entertainment that my Squeezebox ecosystem brings into our home.
Let's ask LOGITECH to make them again!

As others have stated, asides from they have no current hardware team, I work in the PC design/manufacturing business, and even if you had all the design diagrams and component specifications, the suppliers likely couldn't supply identical components to go on the circuit boards... and the redesign, testing and everything else starts to get more expensive.

jimmypowder
2015-05-19, 10:47
Well certainly Auralic ,and Mr.Wang is no dummy over there, thinks the market is ripe for a cheap audiophile streamer/dac.

I can guarantee you the audio quality will be better then the SB Touch and probably even the Transporter.

JJZolx
2015-05-19, 20:56
I think it will all come down to the interface. Can their "Control App" match LMS?

It may be that the "control app" is used mostly for setup. With no native user interface, this would pretty much be a requirement in a commercial product.

Looks promising. Essentially functions like a Receiver, but with no status indicator light. Like the Receiver, there's no display and no native user interface. The motherboard certainly looks very simple. Probably also capable of running LMS, especially with its USB ports. Did anyone see specs on the computer at the core of the device? CPU, RAM size, etc.?

http://zolx.com/images/ariesmini.jpg

(photo from Digital Audio Review (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/auralic-launch-aries-mini-streamer-at-munich-high-end-2015/))

JJZolx
2015-05-20, 03:34
Wait a minute... I was under the impression that the Aries Mini could function as a Squeezebox client. But as I read about it, I don't see any mention of that. Since it's running Linux, I suppose it could be done with some tinkering, but if the product doesn't function natively as a Squeezebox, how in the world can it be viewed as Squeezebox replacement?

riffer
2015-05-20, 06:58
Wait a minute... I was under the impression that the Aries Mini could function as a Squeezebox client. But as I read about it, I don't see any mention of that. Since it's running Linux, I suppose it could be done with some tinkering, but if the product doesn't function natively as a Squeezebox, how in the world can it be viewed as Squeezebox replacement?

Hence my comment. There are all kinds of devices or combination of devices that can get a song from a hard drive to your speakers; but are they able to match the user interface of LMS?

I've resigned myself to having to use some form of wireless device in the future, as having a device with a display just doesn't seem in the cards.

GRC
2015-05-20, 12:55
There seems to be a plethora of SB Touch replacements / killers, mostly focused on improved SQ. BUT - why do all the manufacturers continue to think that i-Things or their Android equivalents are the UI of choice and just produce headless devices?

I've played with RasPi-base solutions - sure they work well but it's still nerdsville central.

I'm a long-time SB user and the ability to just stroll over to the nearest SB Touch, SB Classic, Radio etc. (I have them all) to control the music is seriously cool. We have multiple i-Things dotted around, but that's the point - they're not usually to hand, and then you have to swipe to the relevant app (iPeng etc.), wait for it to sync, blah blah. Sure we use them as well but a touch display on the actual client costs peanuts these days and I reckon it increases the marketability / differentiation of the product. We've also had visitors asking "what's that playing?" and being able to just see from the clients is great.

Maybe I'm just the wrong target market these days but there are lots of us "greys" around with money to spend on an easy-to-use high-quality system. And it hasn't stopped Sonos either.

An updated 24/192 capable SB Touch form-factor (display and Touch input) with Spotify, Tidal etc. apps at around 250 sterling would be a killer IMHO with a big name behind it. Yes I know - it sort of exists thanks to Triode et al but that doesn't count.

So I'm not getting rid of my Squeezes in the foreseeable future . . .

mandryka
2015-05-28, 00:36
Has anyone tried opensqueeze solo?

http://www.vidabox.com/opensqueeze-solo-music-player.html

I have a Squeezebox classic which I control with tablets, they're linked to a 2TB library for mostly FLAC files. What I'm worried about is not just the squeezebox hardware failing (I have a backup in storage) but the software becoming outdated. If spotify changed their encryption, for example, or as new audio services emerge. This happened with Qobuz, which I ditched a couple of years ago when I found their interface to the Squeezebox wasn't seeing many recordings, and they weren't developing it further because of Logitech's squeezbox policy.

Apesbrain
2015-05-28, 07:47
Has anyone tried opensqueeze solo?
I'm sure it works but $250 seems a lot to pay for a device you can snap together with $65 worth of "parts" from Amazon. For another $35 you can add digital outputs which the Solo does not have.


What I'm worried about is not just the squeezebox hardware failing (I have a backup in storage) but the software becoming outdated.
Yes, that is the concern but there is little you can do about it* so why worry? If/when the time comes you can switch over to Sonos or BlueSound or some newer solution. In the meantime enjoyment of your Squeezebox system is costing you nothing.

*You could update to LMS 7.9 beta if you haven't already done so. It has a "No MySqueezebox" option that removes any dependencies on Logitech servers. You'd continue to get Spotify using Triode's plugin.

Also, you could look into ickStream which is currently being developed and provides alternative access to many streaming providers (not Spotify):
http://www.ickstream.com

banned for life
2015-05-29, 08:49
I'd like to see a system image like Vortexbox for the Pi.

That said, I have never used my Vortexbox VM's for playback.

So I guess I want a system image that just runs SqueezeSlave with just enough UI to handle configuring the connection to the SBS.

Yes, for life....