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View Full Version : LMS 7.90 change in sort behaviour?



gazjones59
2015-03-14, 08:19
Hello everybody.

I have a mature LMS system running from a Wndows 7 machine servicing 4 touch/radio units. Having been a user for quite a few years, I have the system running
as I want and it performs in a pretty much trouble free fashion. I switched to LMS 7.9 in the middle of last year, and this also was a trouble free process.

However, last night I decided to download the latest 7.90 nightly to see if any improvements had been made. The installation itself went fine, but it appears that the ability to amend the sort order of items in the Album search listing is not functioning. The button still appears in the bottom left of the web interface, and the previous options are present and correct. When viewing the Albums category, these sort options work as before, but when viewing the results from an album search, the results seem to come back in a random order and the various sort options are indicated but make no difference when selected.

The main reason this is a problem for me is that the weird sort order for searches is reflected in iPeng's search function, which is the way I access my classical collection.

Am I missing something, or has this bug been noticed by anyone else?

Thanks in advance.

pippin
2015-03-14, 08:43
Search is now full-text-search

gazjones59
2015-03-14, 08:50
Hi Pippin - thanks for replying so swiftly.

Firstly I should thank you for iPeng which is indispensable to me.

However, I don't understand your comment. I did notice reference to 'full text search' in the scanner progress messages - could you elaborate further?

pippin
2015-03-14, 09:03
For the details Michael will have to respond but essentially the search process is changed. It uses a full text search across all fields in your library and then has a ranking algorithm for the search results while in the past it was e.g only search in the album title field for album searches.
It makes it easier to find things you can't directly specify but the ranking might be different than before

gazjones59
2015-03-14, 09:29
I understand that the search process itself might have changed, but does that preclude the selection of a particular display order for the returned results?

pippin
2015-03-14, 09:37
Yes, because there are now a lot more results so they need to be ranked to be useful.
But that ranking automatically means that other sort options can't have an effect

gazjones59
2015-03-14, 10:01
OK - there is presumably a reason that this was implemented but it is a big problem for me.

In order to keep my classical music tagged effectively without using too many different tags, I have used a schema where i tag the Album Title as 'Composer : Work'. For example 'Sibelius : Symphony No. 6'. By entering the search term 'Sibelius' I then get all the works by this composer, and as it was I would get all instances of Symphony No. 6 preceded by all instances of Symphony No. 5 and followed by all instances of Symphony No. 7 etc. When I execute a search now, the results come back in no discernible order, but I understand from what you are saying that this order is not only seemingly random, but cannot be changed.

If this is the case, is there some way I can return to a 7.9 nightly from before this amendment, or will I have to go back to 7.8 in order to get the search working as before? Or perhaps this bit of code is a work in progress and may be subject to change.......?

gazjones59
2015-03-14, 11:14
Emergency averted. A bit of searching revealed that the full text search option is a plugin which can be disabled. I did this and Hey Presto! - order is restored. Thanks for your help.

JohnB
2015-03-14, 13:07
gazjones59,

My music library is also mostly classical and I also used to search in exactly the same way you do (my album name format is <Composer> - <Work> - <Main performer> ).

However, now that there are the additional browse modes in LMS 7.9 I no longer use the search but use the composer browse and drill down from there. I find it very good indeed, especially with iPeng.

(Of course it means you have to have the Composer tag set on all one's music files.)

gazjones59
2015-03-14, 14:39
Thanks for the advice. If I was starting again, I would do exactly as you describe; however my library is now of a size which means that updating all the Composer tags would be a major undertaking. I wanted a schema which was really simple and would work essentially independent of the software utilised. As much as I love my Squeezebox setup, there may come a day when it no longer works and I want to be able to load my library as is into another 'package' and retain easy access to all the tag information.

I hope it doesn't happen but I can't be without my library or my head would explode.

Mnyb
2015-03-15, 00:29
Composer is a standard tag if an app don't uses it it's does not cause anything , you may not want to change the other tags but adding a composer tag should be easy .

If your folders are per composer just open the whole folder in your tag editor mp3tag for example and add the tag .

If your folded are arranged differently open the whole library in the tag editor filter or sort the list accordingly mark all the tracks with a certain composer change the tag .

Do a complete rescan .

Important before any mass tagging effort make sure the backup is ok .if you mess up .

If your a bit clever make a very small library in another folder and experiment with the tagging until it looks rigth , then the complete rescans does not take so long .
As LMS can now browse by composer artist and albumartist this makes for some interesting options .

JohnB
2015-03-15, 04:25
I agree with Mnyb.

Also, if your "album" tag is always in the format "<Composer> : <Work>" you could even automate the process with mp3tag. Whether you would want to do this is another matter, but I am just giving an example of what is possible and no doubt there are even better ways of doing the same job.

Always make sure you have a backup of the music files before trying anything like this and, also, test it out on a few albums copied to a temporary folder before doing it "live".

- Bulk copy the album tag over the to composer tag, using "Convert"
- Bulk strip out the first " : " and everything following it from the new Composer tag using a new "Action" (leaving the composer name in the composer tag).


- Copy the album tag over the to composer tag, using "Convert"
Highlight the lines you want to change (CTRL-A for all lines)
Click on "Convert" on the Menu Bar
Select "Tag to Tag"
Field "COMPOSER" (from drop down list)
Format String %album%
OK

then

- Strip out the first " : " and everything following it from the new Composer tag using a new "Action":
Click on Actions (on menu bar)
Select "Actions" (top of list)
Create New - top icon on the right
Enter a new name for the action group
Create New - top icon on the right
Select "Replace with regular expression" from drop down list
Field: COMPOSER (from drop down list)
Regular expression: (.*?) : (.*)
(where " : " is what you always use to separate the composer and work in the album tag)
Replace matches with: $1
(The $1 refers to the first part of the regular expression, i.e. (.*?)
Click on OK
Click on OK
Click on "Close" (if you click on OK is will run any action that is ticked)
Now highlight the lines you want to run the new action on
Click Actions on the Menu Bar
Select the name of the action you have just created

(I have tested this on a folder of my own music library to make sure it works properly - but, as always, caveat emptor - test it on selected folders first.)

gazjones59
2015-03-15, 04:47
I understand what you say - however the schema I use works perfectly and has the added bonus of clearly displaying the composer name when browsing by album without accessing any other tags. Of course, it all goes out of the window if a search on album title returns everything in random order - which was exactly the problem I ran into when using the full text search. Now that I am back to the 'old' way of searching I can very easily access all my Sibelius (or any other) recordings using only basic search arguments, and get them displayed in a logical sequence.

The idea of retagging 70,000-odd classical tracks does not fill me with glee - especially since I would also have to edit all the album titles to remove the composer otherwise what's the point? I don't really adhere to a 'CD-centric' system as it doesn't make much sense for classical music, so if a CD contains 2 symphonies, I rip each one as a separate entity. Just to make it a bit more difficult, my folder structure is by Orchestra/Artist so any composer tag update would be a royal PITA.

Mnyb
2015-03-15, 04:52
I understand what you say - however the schema I use works perfectly and has the added bonus of clearly displaying the composer name when browsing by album without accessing any other tags. Of course, it all goes out of the window if a search on album title returns everything in random order - which was exactly the problem I ran into when using the full text search. Now that I am back to the 'old' way of searching I can very easily access all my Sibelius (or any other) recordings using only basic search arguments, and get them displayed in a logical sequence.

The idea of retagging 70,000-odd classical tracks does not fill me with glee - especially since I would also have to edit all the album titles to remove the composer otherwise what's the point? I don't really adhere to a 'CD-centric' system as it doesn't make much sense for classical music, so if a CD contains 2 symphonies, I rip each one as a separate entity. Just to make it a bit more difficult, my folder structure is by Orchestra/Artist so any composer tag update would be a royal PITA.

That makes sense , classical pre-dates recording so the format does not really fit the CD or LP there always seems to be some "filler" work attached to a classical CD .

If I where more into this music I would split the CD and abuse "album" for a "work" like a symphony or some such piece . I must confess that tagging classical is beyond me . There are something about it in our wiki and several other classical listeners here .