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View Full Version : LaCie Ethernet disks - how noisy are they



Mike Marley
2004-12-07, 17:40
hmmm.... very interesting. Yeah, I have about 220GB of music on a
250GB drive right now which I back up to another 250 drive. Obviously,
I am almost full and I need to come up with a better plan that involves
backing up. I like raid as a solution, whether it be raid 1 or 5 and I
love the idea of external firewire. It seems really cool. It is just
so darn expensive. Did you just buy the enclosure and populate it
yourself?

While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people are
doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim off an
OS X box using iTunes FWIW.


Mike M.

Kevin O. Lepard
2004-12-07, 18:36
>While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people
>are doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim
>off an OS X box using iTunes FWIW.

I back up to DVDs. I keep several sets and when I get 4 Gig of new
stuff to add I burn a new disk for each set. It'd be a bit of a
hassle to start at 220 G, but it you do it incrementally as your
collection grows, it works well.

I've never been a big fan of tape. I think MO is still the most
reliable media for backup short of paper, but it's rather uncommon
and quite spendy these days.

As you mention, a RAID 5 would be a great solution, but those are
still unfortunately pretty expensive, too.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

Robin Bowes
2004-12-07, 18:46
Mike Marley wrote:

> While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people are
> doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim off an OS
> X box using iTunes FWIW.

Mike,

I'm running slimserver on a Linux box (Fedora Core 3) with 6 x 250GB
SATA drives (/dev/sd[abcdedf])

All the disks are configured the same with one small partition (1.5GB)
and one big partition (248.g GB).

The root filesystem is installed on a RAID1 mirror built from /dev/sda1
and /dev/sdd1.

I use another RAID1 pair as swap (/dev/sb1 and /dev/se1).

The large partitions (/dev/sd[abcdef]2) are configured as a RAID5 array
with one hot spare, i.e. I have a total of 248.5 x 4 = 994 GB disk space
available.

I use lvm to configure the RAID5 space; the whole array is a single
volume group with three logical volumes:

/dev/mapper/audio_vg-var_lv is mounted as /var
/dev/mapper/audio_vg-usr_lv is mounted as /usr
/dev/mapper/audio_vg-home_lv is mounted as /home

Sizes are as follows:

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/md0 1.4G 452M 890M 34% /
/dev/mapper/audio_vg-var_lv
5.0G 1.2G 3.6G 25% /var
/dev/mapper/audio_vg-usr_lv
9.9G 2.2G 7.2G 24% /usr
/dev/mapper/audio_vg-home_lv
915G 101G 805G 12% /home

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Dave McGaugh
2004-12-08, 10:04
Hi Mike,

I'm using Linux software RAID with 4x120GB drives configured for RAID-5
(approx. 125GB of FLACs), all connected to a "dumb" IDE-133/PCI card
(no hardware RAID buit-on). Been using it for about a year or so and
have been quite happy. I'm far from a RAID expert but Linux software
RAID uses something called persistent superblocks that help it keep
track of what disks play what role in the RAID. Also, if installing
from scratch Fedora Core has some really nice functionality in its
"Disk Druid" tool for setting up a new RAID (or LVM for that matter).

I first got excited about Linux software RAID when I attended this
preso at the Portland Linux User Group meeting:
http://www.pikus.net/~pikus/plug_softraid/

Regards,
Dave

On Dec 7, 2004, at 4:40 PM, Mike Marley wrote:

> hmmm.... very interesting. Yeah, I have about 220GB of music on a
> 250GB drive right now which I back up to another 250 drive.
> Obviously, I am almost full and I need to come up with a better plan
> that involves backing up. I like raid as a solution, whether it be
> raid 1 or 5 and I love the idea of external firewire. It seems really
> cool. It is just so darn expensive. Did you just buy the enclosure
> and populate it yourself?
>
> While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people are
> doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim off an
> OS X box using iTunes FWIW.
>
>
> Mike M.
>
>

Robin Bowes
2004-12-08, 12:11
Dave McGaugh wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm using Linux software RAID with 4x120GB drives configured for RAID-5
> (approx. 125GB of FLACs), all connected to a "dumb" IDE-133/PCI card (no
> hardware RAID buit-on). Been using it for about a year or so and have
> been quite happy.

Dave,

be aware that if you get a disk failure then you'll most likely lose the
other disk on that IDE channel and therefore you're array will be
trashed too.

If using IDE, the mantra is one disk per channel. Get yourself another
card - they're cheap.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Jules Taplin
2004-12-08, 13:08
Too right.

And while you're about it... pick a reliable HDD. My array has had over
50% of it's Disks (all Maxtor's) fail so far, and to make matters worse,
one of the warranty replacements hadn't even finished rebuilding the
parity set onto it before it was reporting failures, too :(

-- Jules

Robin Bowes wrote:

> Dave McGaugh wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I'm using Linux software RAID with 4x120GB drives configured for
>> RAID-5 (approx. 125GB of FLACs), all connected to a "dumb"
>> IDE-133/PCI card (no hardware RAID buit-on). Been using it for about
>> a year or so and have been quite happy.
>
>
> Dave,
>
> be aware that if you get a disk failure then you'll most likely lose
> the other disk on that IDE channel and therefore you're array will be
> trashed too.
>
> If using IDE, the mantra is one disk per channel. Get yourself another
> card - they're cheap.
>
> R.

Jeff Coffler
2004-12-08, 13:26
Hi Robin,

> > While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people are
> > doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim off an OS
> > X box using iTunes FWIW.
>
> Mike,
>
> I'm running slimserver on a Linux box (Fedora Core 3) with 6 x 250GB
> SATA drives (/dev/sd[abcdedf])

So it looks like you're using software RAID. What sort of SATA controller
are you using that supports 6 drives? Does Fedora Core 3 support the
controller natively, or did you need to do a special build to make it work?

Thanks,

-- Jeff

Robin Bowes
2004-12-08, 13:58
Jules Taplin wrote:
> Too right.
>
> And while you're about it... pick a reliable HDD. My array has had over
> 50% of it's Disks (all Maxtor's) fail so far, and to make matters worse,
> one of the warranty replacements hadn't even finished rebuilding the
> parity set onto it before it was reporting failures, too :(

I too have had bad experiences with Maxtor drives - all my 6 x 250GB
SATA drives are Maxtor Maxline II and I've had several fail.

If it wasn't for the fact eat they've got 3 year warranty I'd be
thinking about replacing them with something else not sure what.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Robin Bowes
2004-12-08, 14:52
Jeff Coffler wrote:
> Hi Robin,
>
>
>>>While on this topic, I would also like to know what other people are
>>>doing for their LARGE music collections. I am running my slim off an OS
>>>X box using iTunes FWIW.
>>
>>Mike,
>>
>>I'm running slimserver on a Linux box (Fedora Core 3) with 6 x 250GB
>>SATA drives (/dev/sd[abcdedf])
>
>
> So it looks like you're using software RAID. What sort of SATA controller
> are you using that supports 6 drives? Does Fedora Core 3 support the
> controller natively, or did you need to do a special build to make it work?

I'm using 2 x Promise SATA150 TX4 cards with 3 disks on each controller
and yes, I'm using software raid.

The controller is supported natively by the 2.6.x kernel so yes, Fedoras
Core 3 supports it natively. One caveat, the FC3 smp kernels don't have
this module included - this is a bug and will be fixed, but it caused
me a load of issues when I upgraded from FC2 to FC3 (I run slimserver on
a dual processor box). I'm working round it by using the
single-processor kernel until this gets fixed.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Dave McGaugh
2004-12-08, 15:07
Using Western Digital drives now. I usually toggle between WD or IBM
for my systems (though I think IBM is not IBM anymore). Thanks for the
tip on the IDE pairing, I wasn't aware of that. Don't want to get too
off-topic here, but I'm curious as to why. Is it because the
master/slave relationship gets horked up when one channel loses a
drive?

-Dave

On Dec 8, 2004, at 12:58 PM, Robin Bowes wrote:

> Jules Taplin wrote:
>> Too right.
>> And while you're about it... pick a reliable HDD. My array has had
>> over 50% of it's Disks (all Maxtor's) fail so far, and to make
>> matters worse, one of the warranty replacements hadn't even finished
>> rebuilding the parity set onto it before it was reporting failures,
>> too :(
>
> I too have had bad experiences with Maxtor drives - all my 6 x 250GB
> SATA drives are Maxtor Maxline II and I've had several fail.
>
> If it wasn't for the fact eat they've got 3 year warranty I'd be
> thinking about replacing them with something else not sure what.
>
> R.
> --
> http://robinbowes.com
>
>

Robin Bowes
2004-12-08, 15:51
Dave McGaugh wrote:
> Using Western Digital drives now. I usually toggle between WD or IBM for
> my systems (though I think IBM is not IBM anymore). Thanks for the tip
> on the IDE pairing, I wasn't aware of that. Don't want to get too
> off-topic here, but I'm curious as to why. Is it because the
> master/slave relationship gets horked up when one channel loses a drive?

Dave,

If one drive fails and locks up the channel then the other drive is not
accessible.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Jack Coates
2004-12-08, 22:03
> Dave McGaugh wrote:
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I'm using Linux software RAID with 4x120GB drives configured for RAID-5
>> (approx. 125GB of FLACs), all connected to a "dumb" IDE-133/PCI card (no
>> hardware RAID buit-on). Been using it for about a year or so and have
>> been quite happy.
>
> Dave,
>
> be aware that if you get a disk failure then you'll most likely lose the
> other disk on that IDE channel and therefore you're array will be
> trashed too.
>
> If using IDE, the mantra is one disk per channel. Get yourself another
> card - they're cheap.
>

yup. more info here: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-4.html

--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Believe what you're told; there'd be chaos if everyone thought for
themselves." -- Top Dog hotdog stand, Berkeley, CA

Jack Coates
2004-12-08, 22:06
> Jules Taplin wrote:
>> Too right.
>>
>> And while you're about it... pick a reliable HDD. My array has had over
>> 50% of it's Disks (all Maxtor's) fail so far, and to make matters worse,
>> one of the warranty replacements hadn't even finished rebuilding the
>> parity set onto it before it was reporting failures, too :(
>
> I too have had bad experiences with Maxtor drives - all my 6 x 250GB
> SATA drives are Maxtor Maxline II and I've had several fail.
>
> If it wasn't for the fact eat they've got 3 year warranty I'd be
> thinking about replacing them with something else not sure what.
>
> R.
> --

All disk manufacturers have bad runs. I've had Maxtor drives fail too, but
I also remember when Seagate, Fujitsu, Western Digital, Hitachi, and IBM
were the ones to avoid.

--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Believe what you're told; there'd be chaos if everyone thought for
themselves." -- Top Dog hotdog stand, Berkeley, CA

Dave McGaugh
2004-12-09, 09:30
Great link. I really appreciate it. Adding to my weekend to-do list
"pick up new IDE controller".

-Dave

On Dec 8, 2004, at 9:03 PM, Jack Coates wrote:

>
>> Dave McGaugh wrote:
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I'm using Linux software RAID with 4x120GB drives configured for
>>> RAID-5
>>> (approx. 125GB of FLACs), all connected to a "dumb" IDE-133/PCI card
>>> (no
>>> hardware RAID buit-on). Been using it for about a year or so and have
>>> been quite happy.
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> be aware that if you get a disk failure then you'll most likely lose
>> the
>> other disk on that IDE channel and therefore you're array will be
>> trashed too.
>>
>> If using IDE, the mantra is one disk per channel. Get yourself another
>> card - they're cheap.
>>
>
> yup. more info here:
> http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-4.html
>
> --
> Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
> "Believe what you're told; there'd be chaos if everyone thought for
> themselves." -- Top Dog hotdog stand, Berkeley, CA
>