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Jeff_G
2014-10-11, 07:10
As I've not found a good network player to replace my SB3, I've decided to go for the Touch or possibly Transporter.
I am not into building stuff, so it's between these two.

Does anybody own both? I'd like to know whether there would be an advantage paying extra for the Transporter.
I like the look of the Transporter, it would look better with the rest of the Hi-Fi, I like the idea of bigger screen, but if that's all what I'm gaining, I think the Touch would be more sensible choice?

garym
2014-10-11, 07:32
As I've not found a good network player to replace my SB3, I've decided to go for the Touch or possibly Transporter.
I am not into building stuff, so it's between these two.

Does anybody own both? I'd like to know whether there would be an advantage paying extra for the Transporter.
I like the look of the Transporter, it would look better with the rest of the Hi-Fi, I like the idea of bigger screen, but if that's all what I'm gaining, I think the Touch would be more sensible choice?


Touch is probably more sensible choice. I have and really like both. You can see a good discussion of this here (and there are many other threads on this same question). But all lead to the same conclusion. Really personal preference and cost difference.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?100636-Transporter-or-Touch&highlight=touch+versus+transporter

to summarize a couple of thoughts I have. I like the balanced analog outputs of the Transporter. But I can achieve the same thing with my Touch feeding the Benchmark DAC I that I have (which has balanced analog outs). And other than that, I'm not sure an external DAC really needed for the TOUCH, as it is a nice unit/DAC by itself. The Transporter does look cool but .......

Julf
2014-10-11, 10:20
I like the balanced analog outputs of the Transporter.

Balanced outputs are nice, but nowhere as important as balanced inputs. You get most of the benefits of a balanced connection with an unbalanced output driving a balanced (differential) input, by using a converter cable that is balanced, but with a RCA at the other end.

garym
2014-10-11, 11:07
Balanced outputs are nice, but nowhere as important as balanced inputs. You get most of the benefits of a balanced connection with an unbalanced output driving a balanced (differential) input, by using a converter cable that is balanced, but with a RCA at the other end.

interesting. didn't know that. Not relevant on my end at the moment as I have balanced out (from transporter or Benchmark DAC) to balanced inputs to Preamp (and then balanced outputs from preamp to balanced input to Amp)

Julf
2014-10-11, 12:40
I have balanced out (from transporter or Benchmark DAC) to balanced inputs to Preamp (and then balanced outputs from preamp to balanced input to Amp)

That is of course the ideal solution. It is a pity that audiophiles tend to frown at the "pro" approach of using balanced connections, and instead worry about if their cables have been cryogenically treated or not...

callesoroe
2014-10-12, 02:40
As I've not found a good network player to replace my SB3, I've decided to go for the Touch or possibly Transporter.
I am not into building stuff, so it's between these two.

Does anybody own both? I'd like to know whether there would be an advantage paying extra for the Transporter.
I like the look of the Transporter, it would look better with the rest of the Hi-Fi, I like the idea of bigger screen, but if that's all what I'm gaining, I think the Touch would be more sensible choice?

If you have a very good setup, you will need a DAC to the touch. You do not with Transporter, as it has a very very fine sounding DAC. And it really look muchs much better.

dafiend
2014-10-12, 03:23
If you have a very good setup, you will need a DAC to the touch. You do not with Transporter, as it has a very very fine sounding DAC.
Can you present any evidence to support this claim?

---

German computer magazine measured the Touch's audio output some time ago (2012, issue 12) along with some competing devices. Their figures for the Touch: 0.001% THD, 97.9 dBA dynamic range.

Jeff_G
2014-10-12, 05:04
If you have a very good setup, you will need a DAC to the touch. You do not with Transporter, as it has a very very fine sounding DAC. And it really look muchs much better.

It's a decent set up. Bi-amped Roksan Kandy K2.
I've tried tried Arcam and Audiolab DACs with my current SB3 and could not hear any difference at all, not one bit. Hence I am a bit sceptical since and I doubt I would notice any difference between the Transporter and the Touch.
I can only get the Transporter from the USA on eBay and I guess they will add tax. I contacted the seller and will see what they come back with.

garym
2014-10-12, 05:29
It's a decent set up. Bi-amped Roksan Kandy K2.
I've tried tried Arcam and Audiolab DACs with my current SB3 and could not hear any difference at all, not one bit. Hence I am a bit sceptical since and I doubt I would notice any difference between the Transporter and the Touch.
I can only get the Transporter from the USA on eBay and I guess they will add tax. I contacted the seller and will see what they come back with.

I've not been able to detect a difference between my TOUCH vs TOUCH > Benchmark DAC I (connected via S/PDIF coax). It was only a single blind test, but my indentification of what I was listening to turned out to be random. And I have a decent setup.

Mnyb
2014-10-12, 06:20
Lets introduce the blasphemous idea of going with the specs :) Transporter has very good data better than Touch (but Touch is not bad either ).

Even if a component can't be singled out in a listening test it can still add noise and distortion to the whole .

Said player/dac will be connected to a preamp and a power amp , you want each component so good that transparency is maintained , and that chain begins in the studio so it cant be good to add more errors.
When connecting components other aspect can become important as input/output levels gain ,input and output impedances etc . Mismatches can happen .

Another interesting aspect is the adjustable attenuators available on the single ended analog outputs . You can adjust the output level to a god fit for driving and amp directly without preamp or just for adjustment in general (as everything has to much gain ).
Or drive active speakers directly . Even if the Squeezeboxes digital volume is decent you still want to use it on a somewhat high level to maintain good fidelity so built in attenuators is a bonus .

You could ofcourse add a DAC with better performance to a Touch , but that adds an interface like spdiff optical or USB (with Triodes app for USB and 24/192 khz digital out ) . These interfaces can add sligthly to the jitter (or is asynchronous USB considered jitter free ) , not that you going to hear that on any decent equipment but anyway ...

When the data to a squeezebox arrives the network interface and protocoll used is much better than spdiff or toslink ever can bee totally asynchronous with a typical buffer of 30 seconds for CD material

pablolie
2014-10-12, 10:09
I've not been able to detect a difference between my TOUCH vs TOUCH > Benchmark DAC I (connected via S/PDIF coax). It was only a single blind test, but my indentification of what I was listening to turned out to be random. And I have a decent setup.

I have a Touch feeding into a Benchmark DAC2, and with RCA barely can tell a difference. If there is one it is certainly not worth $1.5k I'd say, but everybody's mileage varies. The main reason why I use the Benchmark is because through balanced connections to the amp I indeed hear a tad less hiss, and especially because the Benchmark allows me to connect several other sources to it and acts as a preamp. With the Touch alone I'd need some other way of consolidation sources into the power amp. Plus once -albeit many years ago- one of my SB3 during a storm suddenly blasted random noise at 100% volume into active speakers. Thank heavens I had them on 1/3 power, but it was still LOUD and hence I now trust a preamp if I have non-disposable equipment down the chain...

Jeff_G
2014-10-12, 14:30
With the Touch alone I'd need some other way of consolidation sources into the power amp. Plus once -albeit many years ago- one of my SB3 during a storm suddenly blasted random noise at 100% volume into active speakers. Thank heavens I had them on 1/3 power, but it was still LOUD and hence I now trust a preamp if I have non-disposable equipment down the chain...

I've disabled the SB3 volume and it's on 100% at all times, regardless whether I accidentally touch the slider on my phone or use SB remote.
240 Watts per channel into 75 Watt speakers... It wouldn't go down well :D

Mnyb
2014-10-12, 16:12
Yes there is a re bug in all the ipk3 cpu based squeezeboxes SB2 to Transporter they can emit horrible noise at 100% volume a xlink reset usually fix that . it's very rare it will go years between events . I had it once on an SB3 just once .

So some kind of attenuation is a good thing even when you skipped the preamp , some actives have input volume or you can also use passive attenuators .

Jeff_G
2014-10-13, 13:09
I think I may go for the Transporter. It looks the business and I like the idea of the large display.

Buying it from the US, I guess a travel plug US to UK will be needed. I don't need to worry about the 240V I guess?

If I need to use the unit itself, the one without the knob, it's a touch knob?

garym
2014-10-13, 13:57
I think I may go for the Transporter. It looks the business and I like the idea of the large display.

Buying it from the US, I guess a travel plug US to UK will be needed. I don't need to worry about the 240V I guess?

If I need to use the unit itself, the one without the knob, it's a touch knob?

I *think* the powersupply works with 240V or 110V automatically. May need a different cable, but it looks like a standard sort of cable. Regarding to using the unit with no knob, there are still buttons, etc. on the unit. It obviously works without the knob for setting up, etc.

pablolie
2014-10-13, 15:26
I think I may go for the Transporter. It looks the business and I like the idea of the large display.

Buying it from the US, I guess a travel plug US to UK will be needed. I don't need to worry about the 240V I guess?

If I need to use the unit itself, the one without the knob, it's a touch knob?

Most of the time you're likely to use the web interface or the LMS application, or the remote, so i wouldn't sweat the knob.

The power supplies either require an adapter for the plug but they can be driven with 110 and 220 (make sure to check). some later power supplies had interexchangable tips, but if the previous owner is like me they'll have a hard tome locating the ones that came with the original box, and only have the one they used :-P

It is a very nice piece of gear, it looks and feels good and, more importantly, sounds great.

garym
2014-10-13, 15:28
Most of the time you're likely to use the web interface or the LMS application, or the remote, so i wouldn't sweat the knob.

The power supplies either require an adapter for the plug but they can be driven with 110 and 220 (make sure to check). some later power supplies had interexchangable tips, but if the previous owner is like me they'll have a hard tome locating the ones that came with the original box, and only have the one they used :-P

It is a very nice piece of gear, it looks and feels good and, more importantly, sounds great.

to be clear, the power supply is built-in (inside) the Transporter. There is not an external powersupply "brick". There is a 3 prong cable that connects to back of Transporter and ends with the plug for the outlet.

Jeff_G
2014-10-13, 15:45
It should be no problem then. Just a standard lead that would plug into a monitor, pc etc.
I've checked the description on eBay and it states AC 100-240. Although I guess the description is taken from the web somewhere.
I'm not sure why it says the box contents 'power supply'
This is the item:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151363040438?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

garym
2014-10-13, 15:47
It should be no problem then. Just a standard lead that would plug into a monitor, pc etc.
I've checked the description on eBay and it states AC 100-240. Although I guess the description is taken from the web somewhere.
I'm not sure why it says the box contents 'power supply'
This is the item:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151363040438?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

correct re cable. no clue about description. probably just a copy/paste mistake (even on Logitech's part).

castalla
2014-10-13, 16:05
correct re cable. no clue about description. probably just a copy/paste mistake (even on Logitech's part).

1200 usd !!!

Get a joggler for 50 gbp and a decent dac (if necessary)

Jeff_G
2014-10-14, 04:31
1200 usd !!!

Get a joggler for 50 gbp and a decent dac (if necessary)

Yes, it's not cheap. But I don't want to be putting anything together and I failed to find anything that would meet my requirements in terms of ease of use (I use the android app, not the remote or LMS).
It's cheaper than it was when it came out (in the UK) while the Touch is now more than double the price.
I like the idea of the large display, I can see the artist and and the track across the room (on my SB3) and it will be even better with the Transporter.
The SB3 display never failed and it's been on non stop (it's a clock when switched off) since I bought it when it first came out.
It's expensive, but comparing it to other gear that's on the market, it's worth the money. And so is the Touch even though it is way overpriced.

garym
2014-10-14, 04:47
when you say you use the "android app" and not LMS what do you mean. I'm guessing you use LMS to maintain your music library and feed the SB players. But you mean that you don't use the LMS "webGUI" to control anything. Rather, you use an android app to do all your controlling of LMS and your players (just like I use an iPeng app on iphone to control my LMS and players).

Jeff_G
2014-10-14, 04:55
That's right, LMS is on the Synology DiskStation which is connected to my SB3 at the moment. I only use the LMS to scan the directory for new albums.
Otherwise I use my phone except the volume control which I disabled.

epoch1970
2014-10-15, 09:47
I had an idea of getting a Transporter. Besides the fact I am fanatic about the design of the cheaper SB3, the one thing that really stopped me is the prospect of not being able to get it repaired if it breaks.
I do have spare SB3s, I couldn't afford buying spare Transporters ;)

pkfox
2014-10-16, 04:14
Yes, it's not cheap. But I don't want to be putting anything together and I failed to find anything that would meet my requirements in terms of ease of use (I use the android app, not the remote or LMS).
It's cheaper than it was when it came out (in the UK) while the Touch is now more than double the price.
I like the idea of the large display, I can see the artist and and the track across the room (on my SB3) and it will be even better with the Transporter.
The SB3 display never failed and it's been on non stop (it's a clock when switched off) since I bought it when it first came out.
It's expensive, but comparing it to other gear that's on the market, it's worth the money. And so is the Touch even though it is way overpriced.

I paid more than that for mine ( UK ) go for it you wont regret it and hurry up as I'm tempted to buy it as a spare

carrera
2014-10-16, 12:23
Hi,

I would go for the touch!

The Transporter is too expensive and not reliable! (Mine broke after some years)

So enjoy your music with a touch and if you want more - go to Linn!

Regards

Jeff_G
2014-10-16, 13:52
I went for the Transporter. I hope it will last a while. Just like anything, it could last few days, it could last a decade or more. I've had the SB3 since 2007 I guess, it's SlimDevices one and I've had no problems at all.
Now waiting for the seller to ship it. Paid on Tuesday, it's Thursday and no notification as yet :mad:

pablolie
2014-10-16, 17:29
I went for the Transporter. I hope it will last a while. Just like anything, it could last few days, it could last a decade or more. I've had the SB3 since 2007 I guess, it's SlimDevices one and I've had no problems at all.
Now waiting for the seller to ship it. Paid on Tuesday, it's Thursday and no notification as yet :mad:

None of my SB devices have broken. other than a Duet that was questionable from the start, and remains temperamental. The Transporter is a premium product - treat it right and it will last... to this day. the transporter has premium specs.

garym
2014-10-16, 18:46
Hi,

I would go for the touch!

The Transporter is too expensive and not reliable! (Mine broke after some years)

So enjoy your music with a touch and if you want more - go to Linn!

Regards

Not that products can't go bad of course, but I've never had a single issue with my Transporter and it is in daily use, day in, month in, and year in, probably 8 hours per day. I also don't recall seeing any posts from transporter owners on hardware/repair problems.

Mnyb
2014-10-16, 19:14
Not that products can't go bad of course, but I've never had a single issue with my Transporter and it is in daily use, day in, month in, and year in, probably 8 hours per day. I also don't recall seeing any posts from transporter owners on hardware/repair problems.

That would probably be carrera's own post of his repair attempts . If I remember correctly slimdevices when they existed could probably offer you a repair even on out of warranty products . Logitech on the other hand does not do that they treated transporter as just another typical modern product ie cheap and not really possible to repair . But Transporter is expensive and possible to repair , but logitech is not organised to cater for such products....

garym
2014-10-16, 19:16
That would probably be carrera's own post of his repair attempts . If I remember correctly slimdevices when they existed could probably offer you a repair even on out of warranty products . Logitech on the other hand does not do that they treated transporter as just another typical modern product ie cheap and not really possible to repair . But Transporter is expensive and possible to repair , but logitech is not organised to cater for such products....

ah yes, those posts are coming back to me now. but still a rare occurrence I think (transporter hardware problems)

Jeff_G
2014-10-18, 12:56
It is a risk buying something that is no longer in production and there is nobody who can repair it. But as my SB3 is still going strong, I'm taking the chance.
I'm not entirely happy that the Transporter is going from California to Erlanger, KY, and then finally shipped to UK. When I sent my amplifier to the manufacturer for modification (in the UK), they wouldn't ship on Fridays so their goods are not hanging around depots over the weekend.

pablolie
2014-10-18, 22:37
It is a risk buying something that is no longer in production and there is nobody who can repair it. But as my SB3 is still going strong, I'm taking the chance.
I'm not entirely happy that the Transporter is going from California to Erlanger, KY, and then finally shipped to UK. When I sent my amplifier to the manufacturer for modification (in the UK), they wouldn't ship on Fridays so their goods are not hanging around depots over the weekend.

i think that applies to pretty much all electronics we buy these days. a lot of stuff can't be fixed for the simple fact stuff goes out of production. what we hope when we guy quality stuff is that it is build for longevity, because no company on earth can guarantee they will keep spare parts that long after they EOL a product.