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chaug
2014-09-18, 13:08
Hi,
I'm a bit surprised that I cannot find any information on this question in this forum or anywhere else on the internet. So maybe there is something wrong with the question?

Anyway, here is what I'm wondering about: since all my music is on my LMS, I'm considering replacing my stereo and wirebound speakers with some kind of wireless active speakers. In other words, the idea is to connect one of my Squeezeboxes - let's say the Touch - directly to the speakers (rather than to the stereo (i.e. the amplifier) which then transmits to the speakers via those old wires).

My question is: which type of speakers am I looking for?

It is starting to dawn on me that all those airplay and dlna certified speakers that are being hyped these days are not what I'm looking for (because they would access my music through the LMS dlna server so that I would lose all the benefits of using LMS). Am I right? - Maybe some of those speakers have a Line In that I could use to connect the squeezebox touch, but why pay for all the other stuff when you don't need it?

Maybe what I'm looking for are not really wireless speakers after all since I do want to connect my Squeezebox touch with a wire (or rather: I see no other way)? The wireless part would be connecting the second speaker. So what type of speaker am I looking for? I'd appreciate general advice as well as suggestions for specific speakers that you might want to recommend (or warn me about!).

Cheers,
Christoph

jimbobvfr400
2014-09-18, 14:30
Well an 2nd hand radio with a battery or a UE Smart radio would do the job for an portable LMS player.

Do you have any sort of mobile device like an tablet or phone? The wireless speakers are really sold to connect to such a device. You can then turn this device into a squeezebox player with the appropriate software.

I want a portable speaker for my own back yard. I intend to have an old Android phone plugged in in the dining room with squeezeplayer. I will then have a BT speaker I can use in the back garden. I will use my android tablet for control but could also have this as the player but don't want to have the battery drain.

wortgefecht
2014-09-18, 15:41
I'd go for a pair of wireless speakers that use good old RF technology for transmission, since you don't need Bluetooth, NFC or any other fancy connectivity. These speakers come with a transmitter where you plug in your device (usually a 3,5 mm jack and/or cinch; maybe you could even find some with an optical in, I don't know). The downside of this setup is the fact, that all three components (transmitter and the speakers) need their own power supply.

In my pre-Squeezebox days I used to have a pair of Hama wireless RF speakers for our garden deck that were made for outdoor use and could be powered by battery.

EDIT: I forgot--if you have some serious money to spend, Dynaudio from Denmark makes the Xeo range of wireless 2.4/5 GHz speakers. Their transmitter comes with a wide range of connections: cinch, toslink, s/pdif and usb.

d6jg
2014-09-19, 05:11
If you have iPeng as your controller with the in app Play purchase then I'd suggest that AirPlay is the way to go.
You get either AirPlay enabled speakers or use either an Airport Express or Apple TV connected to your hi-fi / Receiver. Somewhat ironically Logitech make some good AirPlay Speakers.

chaug
2014-09-19, 06:41
OK, the haze is starting to clear up. Great idea to use the mobile devices (an iPad and two android phones) not just as remote controls but as players! I hadn't thought of that.The downside, however, would be that if the device that is playing the music leaves the house (as mobile devices tend to do) or the battery dies or it receives a call, the music will stop playing (or you have to switch players). So it's not ideal, at least for a multi-person household. But I'll keep it in mind, if my currently preferred option turns out too expensive or so.

That preferred option is the Dynaudio Xeo 3 wireless speakers which do exactly what I was looking for. And the SB Touch/Receiver can even connect via optical digital connection! Obviously, this comes at a price (minimum 1000 EUR), so I've been looking around to see if there is anything similar in the lower price segments but it seems that Dynaudio have a unique product here. But considering the great reviews and the fact that this will replace my whole Stereo, it might be worth it.

So as I'm exploring this avenue further, new questions arise, and I'll just think aloud here, in case anyone has something to add: I'm starting to realize that with the active speakers connected directly to the SB, the only way to control volume is the squeezebox and the speakers' remote. I'm gonna miss turning that big knob. But since I used the SB volume control most of the time anyway, I guess I'll survive. What's a bigger problem is that there will be no more controls for bass, treble, and - importantly - balance. How to solve this?

I've come across possible software solutions for this. They are called ecasound (http://rtaylor.sites.tru.ca/2013/02/08/room-mode-correction-for-the-squeezebox-using-ecasound/), brutfir (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Brutefir_Filter), and inguz (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Inguz). I can rule out the latter option since it's for Windows only an my machine is a NAS running on Linux (a ReadyNAS Ultra 2, to be precise). I haven't quite understood the difference between the other two yet, and it looks like it will take some time to understand them. What worries me most is that all of these "plugins" seem to be rather CPU intense and I'm not sure whether my NAS with a single core Atom CPU will be able to handle this. I guess the best way is to try it, but if anyone has already done so, please drop us a line in this thread!

banned for life
2014-09-19, 07:48
If you have had no experience with Dynaudio, their speakers will blow you away.

I'm not sure about the "wireless" requirement, though. For anything that will sound good, you will need AC anyway..

B4L

wortgefecht
2014-09-19, 08:08
Out of interest (I may be going wireless with my vintage equipment, too) I digged into the subject and found this: KEF Wireless 2 (http://www.kef.com/html/de/showroom/wireless_solutions/universal_wireless_system/Fact_Sheet/Fact_Sheet/Universal_Wireless_System/index.html)

For about 600 this nice piece of hardware turns any conventional hifi system into a wireless one by connecting the transmitter to the amp and your passive speakers to the receivers.

philippe_44
2014-09-19, 09:37
I have a pair of Xeo 3 connected to a SB receiver. I can confirm it works very well and the Xeo3 quality is really great but, as you say - they are awfully expensive (was even much more than that when I bought them, 2 years ago). I don't miss the small equalizer control, to be honest I like the Xeo 3 just the way they are, but different people might have different opinion ;-)

jimbobvfr400
2014-09-19, 11:27
OK, the haze is starting to clear up. Great idea to use the mobile devices (an iPad and two android phones) not just as remote controls but as players! I hadn't thought of that.The downside, however, would be that if the device that is playing the music leaves the house (as mobile devices tend to do) or the battery dies or it receives a call, the music will stop playing (or you have to switch players). So it's not ideal, at least for a multi-person household. But I'll keep it in mind, if my currently preferred option turns out too expensive or so.



That's exactly why I'm planning on using an older unused device as a player. I already have my old desire Z tucked away behind an old amp in my garage. When I upgrade my current phone I intend to use my current Huawei as another hidden player but this time it will be connected by Bluetooth or airplay to a suitable speaker to use as a portable player on the patio.

wortgefecht
2014-09-19, 12:53
That's exactly why I'm planning on using an older unused device as a player. I already have my old desire Z tucked away behind an old amp in my garage. When I upgrade my current phone I intend to use my current Huawei as another hidden player but this time it will be connected by Bluetooth or airplay to a suitable speaker to use as a portable player on the patio.

I did something similar with my old Nexus 7 tablet. It is now my "multi-device" remote control: LMS/Squeezeboxes, XBMC, Chromecast and my server through the Simple Computer Remote app. Plus some apps for news and for keeping track of tv series/movies.

tcutting
2014-09-19, 15:00
Have you considered looking for a Squeezebox Boom or Radio (or UE Radio) on one of the used sites? Your use case actually sounds like what those devices were made for - a self-contained squeezebox player/amplifier/speaker. Then you get the advantages of the Squeezebox system - additional players which can either play their own stream, or be synchronized with any other Squeezebox players in your system to play the same stream. Other options (if you can find) are used SB3, Touch or Receiver, connected to active speakers directly.

chaug
2014-09-19, 15:22
Hmm, I also have my old HTC Desire sleeping somewhere. So I'd need to get one of those airplay apps for Android (any you guys recommend?) plus a player app such as squeezeplayer and that will allow me to play to music to those airplay speakers? So then I would probably set up my touch to control squeezeplayer on the phone... Interesting!

What about the sound quality? If I understand this setup correctly, it is my phone that converts the digital signal to an analogue one and I'm somewhat sceptical whether a phone or tablet is necessarily the best device to do that...?

@philippe_44: great to hear that you are running my "dream setup". I can imagine (but need to hear with my own ears) that you don't need an equalizer with those kind of high end speakers. But what about the balance (i.e. stereo triangle)? Does it not matter to you that one speaker appears to be louder than the other. Or do you have them setup perfectly symmetrical?

BTW: I have managed to install ecasound on my ReadyNAS (http://rtaylor.sites.tru.ca/2013/02/08/room-mode-correction-for-the-squeezebox-using-ecasound/) and it's not a CPU problem at all. It uses max 10-12 percent of the CPU. I have not yet managed configure it so that one speaker is louder than the other, although the command (e.g. -epp:40) is pretty simple. But I'll figure it out. The problem that remains is that with the standard configuration, ecasound manipulates all audio streams, no matter which player it is headed to. And that doesn't make sense, of course, so the next task would be to study the vast ecasound manual and see if there is a way to have it manipulate only the audio stream going to one particular player... But that's just an aside since it's not the main topic of this thread. In fact, the question of balance control has been discussed at length in another thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?77771-balance&p=791044) and it looks like there could be a much easier implementation of balance control (directly on the SB Touch), but unfortunately it has never been implemented/published. It also mentions that the SB1 actually had balance and some tone control. So that could also be an option...

chaug
2014-09-19, 15:51
Have you considered looking for a Squeezebox Boom or Radio (or UE Radio) on one of the used sites? Your use case actually sounds like what those devices were made for - a self-contained squeezebox player/amplifier/speaker. Then you get the advantages of the Squeezebox system - additional players which can either play their own stream, or be synchronized with any other Squeezebox players in your system to play the same stream. Other options (if you can find) are used SB3, Touch or Receiver, connected to active speakers directly.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I do have a Boom and a Radio as well as a Receiver, but I don't see how those would solve any of the issues raised in this thread. Could you explain?

tcutting
2014-09-19, 18:15
OK, maybe I'm struggling to understand what you're really trying to do. Reviewing the thread shows you are wanting things like balance, and tone controls.

I thought you were looking for an easy way to add a "remote speaker" for an existing squeezebox. My answer was why not just add another squeezebox?

callesoroe
2014-09-21, 04:21
Not the cheapest but nice anyway. The new Crescendo from Martin Logan

16417

ScottRennie
2014-09-25, 06:22
Out of interest (I may be going wireless with my vintage equipment, too) I digged into the subject and found this: KEF Wireless 2 (http://www.kef.com/html/de/showroom/wireless_solutions/universal_wireless_system/Fact_Sheet/Fact_Sheet/Universal_Wireless_System/index.html)

For about 600 this nice piece of hardware turns any conventional hifi system into a wireless one by connecting the transmitter to the amp and your passive speakers to the receivers.

That's how I do it - with a pre-amp between the SB3 and the Kef transmitter to provide secondary volume control - I use a Pro-Ject pre-amp / source switch. Problem you would have is sourcing a Kef as they aren't made any more!

Scott

chaug
2014-10-12, 17:57
I just thought I'd update this thread by saying two things:

I got the Xeo speakers and they sound great with the SB Touch feeding them. I'm no longer worried about the left-right balance.
There is, however, one little problem, namely that the (first generation) Xeo speakers run on the same frequencies as 2.4 GHz Wifi and that can lead to interferences and re-buffering issues (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101272-rebuffering-problem&p=792422&viewfull=1#post792422). But it can be solved (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101272-rebuffering-problem&p=792507&viewfull=1#post792507).