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pippin
2014-09-14, 05:46
First: before anyone asks: it's going to be a free update of iPeng 7 :)

Since I'm sitting here desperately trying to make good use of the iPhoen 6+ screen in iPeng 8 and to get all of this done in time for the launch, a question comes up that I conveniently surpassed for iPeng 7:

Do you prefer to have the status bar or not?

I started to hide it in iPeng 2 because that was when I tried to make more space available for content but primarily because it keeps the notification center from coming down from the top.
In iPeng 7 it was very complicated to show it and make it work with the "pulldown" player list, plus the problem with the notification center persists.

Now... on the big screens of iPhone 6 and especially 6+ I believe I definitely can not justify to hide the status bar so technically the option will be available again.
The question is: what do I do on 4"-devices (iPhone 5, 5s and 5th gen iTouch)?

Comments please!

Chunkywizard
2014-09-14, 11:00
Erm, can I be awkward and say, only in the cover art view? When I'm browsing I like to see it, but if I am using iPeng as a now playing screen then I like the clean look.

Sorry for being awkward, I wonder if I am the only one who would like this?

CW

pippin
2014-09-14, 11:05
Actually it's something I've thought about, too.
It might solve the issue of otherwise having to re-layout the NowPlaying screen but I'm not sure it will work well with the transitions to/from the NowPlaying screen, that might get too awkward.

garym
2014-09-14, 11:24
Can you remind me of what the status bar looked like. I'm a long time ipeng user, but I'm not sure what info this contained.

pippin
2014-09-14, 11:46
Umm, I'm talking about the iOS status bar. The thing at the top showing time, battery state etc.
In lists you can also use it to scroll to the top which is a functionality I miss right now.

MelonMonkey
2014-09-14, 12:48
Having the status bar appear and disappear (ie. only in some view modes) is absolutely the wrong way to do it, so please don't go that route. It's either always there or never there. My vote is handle either situation by tossing the choice into a preference. I generally hate an overabundance of preferences, but it's unavoidable as the server already has an insane amount and the app already has a many - one more isn't going to break it. ;)

My main niggle with the current app is a design bug - the behavior of the A..Z letters at the right side of the screen when scrolling lists. iPeng 7 has been broken with respect to this - the letters (quick jump way to navigate) should always remain static, just like in every other iOS app. However, in iPeng their layout changes when the heading at the top appears and disappears - they move up and down right under your finger. This means if you try to use those letters to scroll down after scrolling up, you will never be able to stop on the letter you want. More than frustrating, it's actually infuriating. :mad:

Next one, this has been around forever, so I hope it's not some fundamental design element that can't be remedied. When starting the app, immediately apply my saved menu button arrangement. iPeng 7 seems to depend connecting to the server before restoring its own app state. Again somewhat frustrating.

pippin
2014-09-14, 13:08
Having the status bar appear and disappear (ie. only in some view modes) is absolutely the wrong way to do it, so please don't go that route.

Why not? Plenty of examples. Apple does it for the video player, iPeng itself does it on iPad and I haven't seen any complaints so far.
The NowPlaying screen is completely different, it even has a different color scheme and now browsing where you'd need it to scroll to the top (OK, for the current playlist), I don't think it's very intrusive. Configuration options are certainly just as bad.

Also, I'm definitely doing it for the landscape/portrait transition because I don't want the status bar in landscape. In landscape the navigation bar is smaller so having a status bar there will bring down the notification center much more easily.



the app already has a many - one more isn't going to break it. ;)

And that's true for all the about 50 different things people want configurable? iPeng already has way too many options but it would have several times more if I weren't refusing to add options wherever I can. I don't think I'm going to do it in this case.



My main niggle with the current app is a design bug - the behavior of the A..Z letters at the right side of the screen when scrolling lists. iPeng 7 has been broken with respect to this - the letters (quick jump way to navigate) should always remain static, just like in every other iOS app.

I know, the problem is that would mean I'd have to re-implement the navigation logic. The problem is that the scrolling container resizes. I'd either have to start to permanently show the navigation bar again - taking up quite a bit of space - or completely replace the navigation controller and manually show the navigation bar which would be a whole App redesign. I don't think I've got that much time, it's at least a month of work or so at the time I currently have.



This means if you try to use those letters to scroll down after scrolling up, you will never be able to stop on the letter you want. More than frustrating, it's actually infuriating. :mad:

You can, what you need to do is touch the bar and then move to the letter you want, then you can get the exact letter you are trying to find.

But yes, I hate it, too :)



Next one, this has been around forever, so I hope it's not some fundamental design element that can't be remedied. When starting the app, immediately apply my saved menu button arrangement. iPeng 7 seems to depend connecting to the server before restoring its own app state. Again somewhat frustrating.
Yes, but unavoidable.
The menu is defined by the server so as long as it's not loaded, iPeng can't use it, it doesn't know how the menu looks like, it can change any time.
The menu will be different on each server you connect to and - even worse - it's per-player so it can even change when you switch to a different player. Too many variables.

MelonMonkey
2014-09-14, 13:33
Why not? Plenty of examples.

It's a bad design practice, even if Apple does it in some apps. Unfortunately Apple are not the leaders of UI principles in iOS. Their own built-in Apps suck for the most part. ;)


And that's true for all the about 50 different things people want configurable?

No. Only if you're considering using the menu bar. If you don't want to have an option, leave it hidden at all times. Which is why I cast a vote for no menu. ;)


I know, the problem is that would mean I'd have to re-implement the navigation logic.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I consider this a significant bug and one that doesn't affect any other app I've seen. Navigating those lists is a big part of using iPeng on the iPhone.

I can't offer you a suggestion of how to address the issue from a code perspective because I'e never seen your source, but if it involves a complete app redesign then I think there are more issues here than I know about. ;) With respect to the letters always being there, I'm not sure what the issue is with that. The only instance where you would hide that column entirely is when there are fewer entries than the height of the screen.


You can, what you need to do is touch the bar and then move to the letter you want, then you can get the exact letter you are trying to find.

I do all kinds of things to deal with that UI issue, but none of them are very good workarounds.


The menu is defined by the server so as long as it's not loaded, iPeng can't use it, it doesn't know how the menu looks like, it can change any time.
The menu will be different on each server you connect to and - even worse - it's per-player so it can even change when you switch to a different player. Too many variables.

I'm talking about the App's menu at the bottom, not the player menu. Not sure why an app menu would would be saved to the server, so I'm assuming you thought I was talking about the player menu. If in fact I'm mistaken and you did understand which menu I was talking about, consider scrapping the per-player instance of the app's menu. Set the app layout once and that's it - just like every other app.

All things considered, that's about the extent of the regular issues I have. The not-so-regular ones are of course extreme lag in adjusting the volume of a Squeezebox at times, occasional unresponsiveness from a Squeezebox being controlled and very often the incorrect album artwork and potentially track listing showing up when switching back to the app from the Springboard or another app.

pippin
2014-09-14, 13:52
It's a bad design practice, even if APple does it in some apps.

Again: why?
It's not confusing if the screens are different anyhow so please tell me why you think it's a bad design practice?
There are as many "design practices" as there are designers and there's a lot of stuff designers tell me would be good practice that actual users really hate.
It's a bit like with iOS 7: all designers and developers love it but the majority of actual users still seems to hate it.

Another example: a lot of design people have told me that it's bad design practice to ever hide the status bar except for games and full-screen images (Apple says so, too) but the poll above suggests more people like than hate _that_ (including you).

So I'd like to understand _why_ you thing a certain practice is better than the other. You know: for follows function and stuff. I kind of like this principle.



No. Only if you're considering using the menu bar. If you don't want to have an option, leave it hidden at all times. Which is why I cast a vote for no menu. ;)

OK. Well... good to know.
I'm probably going to definitely show it on iPhone 6 (with the much larger screen) but might leave it out on iPhone 5.



Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I consider this a significant bug and one that doesn't affect any other app I've seen.
Well, as I said: I hate it, too.
But the there is: "real artists ship" and if I tried to fix anything I really don't like there still would not yet be an iPeng 1.0 :)

That said.... I'm might be able to fix it for iOS 8, just not for iOS 7. Should have been more specific here.



I can't offer you a suggestion of how to address the issue from a code perspective because I'e never seen your source, but if it involves a complete app redesign then I think there are more issues here than I know about. ;)

The App uses a standard NavigationController as the main hierarchical element. Hiding the navigation bar is not something that thing supported pre-iOS 8. Hiding it manually caused the issue you are seeing.
The options are:
1. Don't hide the navigation bar (too little space, especially on iPhone 4)
2. Don't use the NavigationController. That's a lot of work because it means I'd have to create that bar manually in each and every menu (OK, at least in the superclasses).

There are other Apps hiding the navigation bar but most of the ones I've seen don't use a navigation controller.

iOS 8 supports hiding the navigation bar, I hope using that functionality fixes the issue (haven't tried in iPeng, yet).



With respect to the letters always being there, I'm not sure what the issue is with that. The only instance where you would hide that column entirely is when there are fewer entries than the height of the screen.

I'm not doing that, it's iOS itself changing the layout as a response to the changed hight of the navigation bar.



I do all kinds of things to deal with that UI issue, but none of them are very good workarounds.

[quote]
I'm talking about the APP's menu at the bottom, not the player menu.

Me, too. That _is_ a player-specific menu in a Squeezebox system. Try it out: You can move all kinds of menu items to the top level per player.
This is NOT an App menu, it's provided by the server. There are five App-specific entries in that menu, these are the ones that are permanently there. Everything else is server-supplied.
It varies by server version or per player, even menus that _look_ the same.


Not sure why an app menu would would be saved to the server

Because that's how the Squeezeboxes work.

Set the app once and that's it - just like every other app.
Not every other App has >>90% of it's functionality defined by a server.
iPeng is just UI, the functions are (mostly) on the server side. iPeng can't talk to the player, only to the server so it needs to do what the server supports.
If I did not do it this way you'd lose a lot of functionality.
Or I'd show menus that don't actually work. And that would be a really bad design decision.

garym
2014-09-14, 14:16
Umm, I'm talking about the iOS status bar. The thing at the top showing time, battery state etc.
In lists you can also use it to scroll to the top which is a functionality I miss right now.

Aha. Ok. I don't need it.

pufnstuf
2014-09-14, 14:33
When ... I am using iPeng as a now playing screen then I like the clean look.

Sorry for being awkward, I wonder if I am the only one who would like this?

CW

Hey Chunkywizard, I completely agree with you about a totally clean screen for the Cover Art /Now Play view. I like to see just the pure cover art in that mode.

Thanks pippin for continuing to improve the great iPeng - I use it daily. Literally. (Would love a remote play/caching function too... if you are ever bored hehe) :D

pippin
2014-09-14, 15:04
OK, so it turns out Apple's iOS 8-method to hide the navigation bar doesn't support the index bar either.
It has the same issue as my original implementation: it leaves the actual section header orphaned somewhere in the middle of the screen...
Move it to the top of the screen and the index bar moves, too :(

And I did remember wrongly what the issue was: the issue is not with the navigation bar, it's actually with the very index bar and the section headers themselves.

pippin
2014-09-14, 15:05
Hey Chunkywizard, I completely agree with you about a totally clean screen for the Cover Art /Now Play view. I like to see just the pure cover art in that mode.


Just to be clear: I'm currently not talking about hiding controls or stuff in portrait mode, just about the status bar.
In landscape mode the status bar will probably stay hidden, I think.

CharlieG
2014-09-14, 16:01
Aha. Ok. I don't need it.

I don't need it either.
Just to be clear I am talking about on the iPhone 5s screen.
I may not be an average phone user...I prefer my phone small(ish) and my tablet big (I have an iPad Air). So I plan to hang on to my current phone for a while yet.

pippin
2014-09-15, 05:40
Hm, this result almost makes me thing whether I should even hide the status bar on the bigger iPhones (6 and 6+)....
Looks like a pretty clear "hide it" on iPhone 5/5s

pippin
2014-09-16, 00:58
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I consider this a significant bug and one that doesn't affect any other app I've seen. Navigating those lists is a big part of using iPeng on the iPhone.


OK, I think I've nailed it by eventually doing the whole index-bar thing myself.
On the "any other App". I haven't seen any other Apps that both use an index bar (or the section headers that go along with it) and hide the navigation bar on scrolling. It doesn't even work with Apple's own implementation under iOS 8.
If you know any that do this I'd still be happy to know about them because I'd want to see how they do this.

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 08:26
Different, but what about some basic Sonos integration ? http://musicpartners.sonos.com/?q=node/21

pippin
2014-09-16, 08:35
Different, but what about some basic Sonos integration ? http://musicpartners.sonos.com/?q=node/21

Umm, as a streaming service provider? I don't understand this?
"Integrating" Sonos will be hard, it works completely differently, you can't remotely control it with the same App without creating a huge usability mess.

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 09:58
Umm, as a streaming service provider? I don't understand this?
"Integrating" Sonos will be hard, it works completely differently, you can't remotely control it with the same App without creating a huge usability mess.

I was thinking about a very basic integration to start with. This is from a discussion I'm having on another thread. I'm bridging my Squeezebox system with my Sonos by a hardware bridge between an SB3 and a Sonos Play:5. This is brute force but it works well. As far as SB is concerned, all the Sonos speakers are seen as a single "player" so I switch on/off sync/unsync individual Sonos speakers using the Sonos app, but for all the rest, LMS is still my interface, as long as I play to that SB3 "bridge". I've been using that for about 2 years. Not perfect from a UI point of view, but what works 100% well is synchrnisation (amazing).

Then during that discussion, I was thinking that a software bridge could be developped instead of my HW goofy bridge. At least, to do the very same basic. No real "management" of the Sonos environment, but as least piping the sound to it. I saw then that Sonos has an API to add streaming server application, so I was wondering if a PC running SqueezeLite could then be that bridge and create a stream that Sonos would then understand and replay. I was even wondering if named pipes could work for a test (not pretty, just a test) where Squeezelite would output to a named pipe that would be played as a file by the Sonos player. I guess there will be some issue with file format as the pipe will probably not represent something meaninfull to Sonos, but I was just wondering ... otherwise, implementing a proper Squeezelite to Sonos stream would probably work

So, as you see this is far from a complete integration where iPeng, for example, could control the Sonos devices, but at least that would be an interesting building block.

pippin
2014-09-16, 10:07
I think the problem here is that what you are looking for is a very specific solution for a very specific setup you are using. This will probably work for you and nobody else out there so putting this into iPeng will probably not be the right place, I'd look into writing a custom plugin or something like that.



I saw then that Sonos has an API to add streaming server application, so I was wondering if a PC running SqueezeLite could then be that bridge and create a stream that Sonos would then understand and replay.

No, that's not what this is. This is a way to integrate your music service to their internet backend to be integrated in all Sonos devices.



I was even wondering if named pipes could work for a test (not pretty, just a test) where Squeezelite would output to a named pipe that would be played as a file by the Sonos player. I guess there will be some issue with file format as the pipe will probably not represent something meaninfull to Sonos, but I was just wondering ... otherwise, implementing a proper Squeezelite to Sonos stream would probably work

The problem is that you still would need to implement a FULL control of the Sonos system, something that's not documented but needs to be reverse engineered.
And it will work completely different from the Squeezebox system so will be quite a separation between the two.

Seriously: pick one system and go with it. Integrating Sonos and Squeezebox will just create a usability mess. IMHO.

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 10:18
I think the problem here is that what you are looking for is a very specific solution for a very specific setup you are using. This will probably work for you and nobody else out there so putting this into iPeng will probably not be the right place, I'd look into writing a custom plugin or something like that.


No, that's not what this is. This is a way to integrate your music service to their internet backend to be integrated in all Sonos devices.


The problem is that you still would need to implement a FULL control of the Sonos system, something that's not documented but needs to be reverse engineered.
And it will work completely different from the Squeezebox system so will be quite a separation between the two.

Seriously: pick one system and go with it. Integrating Sonos and Squeezebox will just create a usability mess. IMHO.

Oh well, I have around 10 Squeezebox and your app as well, but the issue is the discontinuation of the Logitech line. I'm fixing them as much as I can, but some will eventually fail, hence I've looked at adding a Sonos and a sort of gracefull transition. I will try to play a bit with things like icecast and squeezelite to see if I can create a LMS-originated stream that can be picked-up by Sonos.

Re my setup I don't think this is very particular. This is just a way to have "some" bridge between the 2 worlds. Anybody having a SB and a Play could use the same solution. I'm not saying it is perfect or pretty, but it really works in a sense that I have SB devices perfectly sync'd with Sonos devices and I still only use iPeng :-) to manage what is being played. Just either push on/off buttons or use the Sonos controler for speaker activation

pippin
2014-09-16, 10:52
Why don't you just use some of the DIY solutions based on SqueezeLite as a player, like a Raspberry Pi with Hifiberry or something like this.

The point I was making is there is no "little" integration. Even if you don't support all of the functionality of Sonos playing a certain stream and controlling volume etc. requires you to implement most of it.
And a lot still would not work confusing a lot of users.

You will never get to work really seamlessly with each other.

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 11:51
Why don't you just use some of the DIY solutions based on SqueezeLite as a player, like a Raspberry Pi with Hifiberry or something like this.

The point I was making is there is no "little" integration. Even if you don't support all of the functionality of Sonos playing a certain stream and controlling volume etc. requires you to implement most of it.
And a lot still would not work confusing a lot of users.

You will never get to work really seamlessly with each other.

I think I understood your point, what I was trying to say is I feel there is "good enough" integration that might be reachable. To some extend I'm already very happy with what I have. Having said that, I'll continue on another thread http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102119-Replacement-system-recommendations as I do not want to troll your poll - I already did and I'm sorry for that. Thanks for making iPeng, this is a really great application !

pippin
2014-09-18, 03:56
Bump.
Any more opinions?
Currently I'm solidly closing in on leaving it as it is for pre-iPhone 6 devices.
iPhone 6 for now will show the status bar, no time to make it optional or something before the launch....

pippin
2014-09-18, 06:47
So... some first impressions on how iPeng 8 is going to look like on the beast that is iPhone 6+

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser1.png http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser2.png

kesey
2014-09-18, 06:51
So... some first impressions on how iPeng 8 is going to look like on the beast that is iPhone 6+



looks good:-)

mcdudeabides
2014-09-18, 07:38
That works for me. I guess trying to maintain consistency across the different generations of devices without turning it in to a maintenance/performance nightmare is a tough challenge. I think you've managed to find the sweet spot that provides a highly functional design that is still intuitive to use as all the iDevices evolve.

PS - Speaking of evolution, with the latest iOS 8 update to a 5S, the volume slider is rendered differently now. Everything works, it's just the horizontal line for volume level is now below the circle used to move volume level.

pippin
2014-09-18, 08:07
Yes, I know, that will be fixed with the update, too.

It's actually a nasty bug in iOS itself that has been around since iOS 7.1. I added a workaround for 7.1 but sine I know that Apple knows about the bug for at least 6 months I limited it to 7.1 so it's showing up again.

The problem is that with this bug you can't color the slider anymore. It's not a huge issue in iPeng but I still hoped they'd fix it.

mps
2014-09-21, 13:05
Hi Pippin,
The screenshots look great. Since some "different" requests are showing up in this thread, what are the prospects for having a 1-10 rating control? There seem to be a number of iOS star rating widgets that accept half stars, and, while (I hope) this is a simple request, it would make more of a difference to my daily use than almost anything else you could do.

Thanks for everything you do,

Mike

andynormancx
2014-09-22, 01:59
I've just added my vote, I'd like to have the status bar. Apps that hide it from me annoy me, unless there is good reason to hide it.

I was very pleased to see it make an appearance in the beta ;)

pippin
2014-09-22, 05:55
Ha, I was indeed pretty surprised by the results.
But well, they are pretty clear WRT using the bar on old devices so I'm sure I'm leaving it as it is there for now.
iPhone 6 and 6 Plus will get the bar.

pippin
2014-09-22, 15:52
Now... Landscape is getting closer, too :)

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser_ls1.png

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser_ls2.png

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser_ls4.png

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser_ls3.png

Simon_rb
2014-09-23, 18:11
Hi
Is that landscaping restricted to iPhone 6 Plus or will the iPhone 6 & 6 Plus have the same app? Looks great by the way. Im still using classic iPeng, guess I'll be updating soon haha

pippin
2014-09-23, 20:21
Well, landscape mode works on all devices, even in iPeng Classic, you just have to enable it in settings.

Regarding the landscape playlist shown above I'm not yet 100% sure.
Until yesterday I would have said it's for iPhone 6 Plus only but since then I realized it's not entirely unrealistic.
The playlist is a bit smallish, but still wider than the pinned one on iPad. Now... The iPad one makes up some of that lost space by having taller cells which is not an option here because height is even more limited, but still... It's 8 rows (one less than on 6 Plus and 1 1/2 less than in portrait mode on iPhone 4 but the same as iPeng Classic on iPhone 4), that's not entirely useless.
The square cover obviously has the same size as in portrait mode and while the buttons cut a bit into the available space for the album name, title and artist are comparable to portrait mode, so probably OK.
And you can always hide the playlist if you think it's not worth it.

I'll ask my beta testers but my current take is that iPhone 6 is probably going to get the playlist, too.

Still, it's one of those things where the 6 Plus excels. This is a ridiculous beast of a phone, definitely too big for my idea of a phone to always carry around. But for things like reading or music library browsing that can make use of a bit of space it's great. And while I always found the landscape mode on the smaller devices entirely useless it really makes sense here.

And when it gets old it's probably going to be the replacement of my Squeezebox touch as an in-wall-controller...

Slackerini
2014-09-23, 20:47
My only request is to make a little more space between the volume slider and << Play >> buttons, given there is a lot more real estate to work with. I find myself skipping songs all the time by accident when I go to hit the volume.

pippin
2014-09-23, 21:34
Yes, there is indeed more space now between the volume slider and the buttons on iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

Simon_rb
2014-09-30, 15:29
Cheers Pippin for that comprehensive reply! Any ideas on an eta? Also if you need more beta testers we have an iPhone 4, 5, 5S, 6, iPad mini and 2 all in use and we run two versions of LMS..

Cheers

pippin
2014-09-30, 21:38
It's uploaded to the App Store, waiting for review. Apple's review times are currently crazy and increasing, no idea whether this is because everyone ups their Apps for iOS 8 or HealthKit or what.
I'd expect at least another week until it's out.

Simon_rb
2014-10-01, 01:14
Brilliant. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

pippin
2014-10-09, 18:33
Now, while I'm still "waiting for review" on the App Store (for almost two weeks... they have _really_ long delays right now) I've looked a bit at how far iPhone sizes have come...

So I've made a little comparison of the different screen sizes and formats iPeng 8 supports, really quite a range.
The sizes are to scale given WRT the "nominal" resolution. This means, they are almost exactly to scale for an iPad mini. The 10" iPad obviously shows the same content but at a larger size, it has a lower effective resolution.

Now, of course the question is what Apple will come up with next week... Probably a @3x resolution for 10" iPads bringing it's resolution to something in between iPhone retina screens and the "retina HD" screen on iPhone 6 Plus. And if they then really add a beast of an even larger iPad we can add something new to these charts :)

Browsing Your Library

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/albums50.png
iPhone 4/4s - iPhone 6 Plus - iPad (mini)

Current Playlist

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/playlists_s.png
portrait: iPhone 4/4S - iPhone 6 - iPad (mini)
landscape: iPhone 6 Plus - iPad (mini)

norderney
2014-10-10, 11:49
Thanks Pippin. I've got an iPhone 6 Plus so I'm really looking forward to iPeng8. I think the new landscape mode for current playlist sounds really good.
Thanks again for all your hard work on developing this wonderful App.

pippin
2014-10-10, 17:46
It's now approved and should show up on the App Store in a few hours.
Full announcement tomorrow :)

norderney
2014-10-11, 15:17
I have downloaded iPeng8 onto my iPhone 6 Plus, and it's working really well.
I was having issues when swiping right to left in the Now Playing screen to view tracks in current playlist in iPeng7 on my iPhone 6 Plus. But I'm no longer getting that problem on iPeng8. It's working very nicely.
I also like having the status bar at the top of screen.
Thanks again Pippin for improving your excellent App.

Daverz
2014-10-11, 19:25
Now... Landscape is getting closer, too :)

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/iPeng8_teaser_ls1.png


Is it possible to get a wider edit window? I often have titles so wide that I can't see what they are in the narrow window. Full landscape editing would be great!

pippin
2014-10-12, 02:38
I was having issues when swiping right to left in the Now Playing screen to view tracks in current playlist in iPeng7 on my iPhone 6 Plus. But I'm no longer getting that problem on iPeng8. It's working very nicely.


Yes, that was actually one of the bigger issues in iOS 8. It was not just affecting the NowPlaying screen but the "tile" album views as well. I was surprised, that nobody ever reported it.

pippin
2014-10-12, 02:43
Is it possible to get a wider edit window? I often have titles so wide that I can't see what they are in the narrow window. Full landscape editing would be great!

Yea, I knew that would be coming... I'll have to see, maybe I'll allow the playlist window to also be dragged all the way to the left to show it full screen. Will have to see how I can do this without creating a mess of a UI handling it.

Mnyb
2014-10-12, 06:54
Maybe a stupid Question is IOS 8 ready yet ? I have two devices to consider an iPhone 4 and an iPad Air . You have more iOS experience than most so maybe you have an idea .

I'm for various reasons more concerned about the phone

garym
2014-10-12, 07:04
Maybe a stupid Question is IOS 8 ready yet ? I have two devices to consider an iPhone 4 and an iPad Air . You have more iOS experience than most so maybe you have an idea .

I'm for various reasons more concerned about the phone

my 2 cents. I updated my iphone 4S to iOS 8 and it seems to be fine for all my uses and I've noticed no problems. Very different for my ipad. I updated my ipad2 to ioS8 and that was a mistake. It loses some of the icons (they turn to icons that look like "targets") and it loses 3G connection (shows "no service") about every 4 hours. This requires a reboot of the ipad to fix. Seems to be a known issue, but iOS 8.02 didn't fix.

I'd been planning on updating my iphone to 6 and my wife's to a 6plus. And I've been waiting for whatever the new ipad air release is next week. I'll likely get one of those. I update all these things about every 3 versions, skipping a few revisions in between.

pippin
2014-10-12, 13:35
I don't have a lot of issues with iOS 8, much less than with iOS 7, for example. It's a bit slower, I don't like the new rotation animations but at least rotation detection seems to have improved somewhat on iPad (it's still not completely reliable). It's a bit slower, as usual, due to moving everything to auto layout, I suppose. That's it.
Not a lot of new stuff, too, but a tremendous amount of new API capabilities so I'd expect to see a lot of great new Apps (or features) that only work under iOS 8 in the future.

The iPhone 6/6 Plus IMHO is a very unusual device for Apple. It works really great: top performance, no real glitches, brilliant display and camera. Everything there. Antennas finally work, battery lasts so much longer,...

But I think it actually has a bad design. I don't like the look (looks like every second Android device to me) but that's not the biggest issue. It's slippery as hell so I never feel comfortable holding it. It's the first one since iPhone 4 that I want to carry with a case. Which doesn't matter, since I don't like the design anyway (the 4 was gorgeous)... Then the placement of the power button right at the opposite side of the camera button makes me often accidentally turn it off, that's just a bad placement (but probably the reason for the improved antenna performance), granted, most Android phones do the same thing (probably to get the Antenna right, too). And the speaker on the 6 Plus is placed in a way that I just can't seem to hold it to my ear correctly.
So.. 10/10 for hardware and software 5/10 for the design. Very un-Apple, as I said...

Simon_rb
2014-10-12, 15:36
Any chance of enabling the landscape view for the iPhone 6? Or does it look really small? Maybe have it as an option to toggle? great update btw and thank you. Although I've updated from the original iPeng, so I'm just getting used to the new design.

Mnyb
2014-10-12, 16:07
Yes looking forward to iPeng 8 ,I'll probably hold out for some more 8.0.x update then I get itchy and update the iPad air .

pippin
2014-10-12, 16:22
Any chance of enabling the landscape view for the iPhone 6? Or does it look really small? Maybe have it as an option to toggle? great update btw and thank you. Although I've updated from the original iPeng, so I'm just getting used to the new design.

Settings->iPeng Settings->Enable Landscape Mode.
Unlike on iPhone 6 Plus it's not enabled by default on the 6 but it's available.

pippin
2014-10-12, 16:25
Yes looking forward to iPeng 8 ,I'll probably hold out for some more 8.0.x update then I get itchy and update the iPad air .

You don't need iOS 8 for iPeng 8.
There are only a few iOS 8 specific functions so far (more to come). The new NowPlaying designs for iPhone 6 are somewhat iOS 8 specific but there is nothing else for iPhone 6 so it's no problem.

Simon_rb
2014-10-13, 05:44
Settings->iPeng Settings->Enable Landscape Mode.
Unlike on iPhone 6 Plus it's not enabled by default on the 6 but it's available.

Haha, I do feel daft lol. Thanks mate.

pippin
2014-10-13, 06:29
Haha, I do feel daft lol. Thanks mate.

I'm a bit unsure how to handle iPhone 6 in this respect.
On the old devices I really didn't want to enable landscape mode by default because I believe a lot of people only used that for wall mounts and in cars and things like this. For normal use it's a bit annoying when it rotates e.g. when you use it lying in bed or on a sofa.

On iPhone 6 Plus I feel landscape is more common, after all it also has a landscape home screen, can launch Apps in landscape and all of Apple's Apps support landscape (although most of Apple's screw up on the rotation, Settings, Mail etc. tend to actually open submenus on their own wehen rotating the device). So I enabled landscape mode by default on the 6 Plus, too.

On the 6 I don't know yet, what most people will prefer, for now it's in the "no landscape by default" category for me because that's how Apple seems to see it, too.

Simon_rb
2014-10-13, 06:37
All I can say is I'm grateful you have included the option. I thought the iPhone 6 Plus was a little big for normal life. I think the iPhone 6 screen is big enough for the landscape modes only available on the bigger phone.

I am grateful you have given the option to try it out. And after using it for a little bit I have to say it looks and feels fine.

In the future do you think the music player control could fill the screen in landscape mode? That would look sweet. Could maybe have two players side by side.

Cheers

pippin
2015-03-11, 07:32
In the future do you think the music player control could fill the screen in landscape mode? That would look sweet. Could maybe have two players side by side.


Sorry, I somehow missed this...
You can hide the playlist even now. Just swipe it away or use the playlist button on the cover overlay.

Simon_rb
2015-03-16, 15:12
Hi,
I meant when you pull down the multiplayer control, it only fills the middle of the screen. If it filled the whole screen you could fit more players on.. Ie 2 on each row.

Using your app has been a great experience - please keep up the fantastic work.

Oh, before I forget have you looked at the Apple watchkit? Would be great to have basic controls on the Apple watch. Stuff like volume, pause, play, stop skip forward and back.

Thanks pippin.

pippin
2015-03-16, 16:16
Horizontally overflowing lists on a touch device with little height? Nah, that would be a usability nightmare, I would have to disable all the D'n'd, what happens with synced players and so on.

Apple watch: sure.

Simon_rb
2015-03-16, 17:02
I think we are talking about different things lol. I'll try and paste a screenshot. Looking forward to see how you implement the Apple watch [emoji106]

Simon_rb
2015-03-16, 17:03
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/16/d56c61337472cb66907e1ec8bf019f22.jpg

Somehow make that fill up the screen like it does in portrait mode.. Would give you the option to have 2 players on each row. If this is what's not possible then I'm sorry lol [emoji6]

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 04:25
How's the watch app coming along? I can imagine is a big big challenge!! I wouldn't know where to start lol.

Pascal Hibon
2015-04-28, 04:36
Why don't you make this a configurable item. Some people will want the status bar, while others won't. It's impossible to satisfy everyone.
But it is possible to come up with a compromise which is to make it configurable. I understand this means more work for you as a programmer though :-)
Personally, I would love to see the status bar or at least the battery icon anyway. I use iPeng in the car a lot and there it makes a lot of sense.

pippin
2015-04-28, 05:57
How's the watch app coming along? I can imagine is a big big challenge!! I wouldn't know where to start lol.

I've got something working (essentially basic controls) and pretty much know what I want to add with the current WatchKit (spoiler: browsing through a 30k Albums library with artwork is not going to happen until they allow full blown Apps).

My biggest issue right now is that I don't have a watch and from what I hear about surprises others have seen I'm definitely not going to ship without on-device testing

Didn't want that blue developer model so I'll try to find the time to queue up for a good one :)

pippin
2015-04-28, 06:00
Why don't you make this a configurable item. Some people will want the status bar, while others won't.
Because switching between the two is a PITA.

I haven't got a single complaint or change request the way it is now so I figure it's probably OK.

Going forward most people in the long run use iPhone 6 so they'll get the status bar and have enough space to still make the layout work well.

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 06:01
If it helps I don't mind testing with my watch when the time comes.. I have basic control of music from the music app on the watch, of course iPeng has to be running on the phone for this to work.

pippin
2015-04-28, 06:18
If it helps I don't mind testing with my watch when the time comes.. I have basic control of music from the music app on the watch, of course iPeng has to be running on the phone for this to work.

Yea, I'll PM you.
How well does control through the Music App work?

My biggest issue is that Apple is setting some expectations with that music App that will be hard to meet.
For example they have buttons on the glance which isn't possible for 3rd Party Apps.
Then they have a scrolling label which will be really hard to do and probably eat a lot of battery (you'd have to transfer the whole animation sequence as bitmaps from the phone), so probably a non-starter, too

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 06:27
Sorry, my bad it's not the music app - it's the music glance. If you have preserve connection set on iPhone then you can change volume, pause/play, skip forward and back using it. I think it relays whatever controls are on the iPhone lock screen.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/28/fc9db18a627762e11c466ccf9bde0518.jpg

pippin
2015-04-28, 06:42
Yes, i know, that's what I meant. Would be great to do something similar for iPeng but you can't do that with WatchKit.

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 08:44
Yes, i know, that's what I meant. Would be great to do something similar for iPeng but you can't do that with WatchKit.

Well basic controls work fine from the music glance so you can use them and then you'd have to load the iPeng watch app to do more complex tasks like selecting an album. Tbh a lot of the time you'd use your iPhone/iPad..

pippin
2015-04-28, 08:55
Well basic controls work fine from the music glance so you can use them and then you'd have to load the iPeng watch app to do more complex tasks like selecting an album. Tbh a lot of the time you'd use your iPhone/iPad..

Problem is: selecting an album likely isn't very feasible either. I mean: if I knew people only had a few hundred albums but some have a few thousand. That just doesn't work.

No, I think one use case is if you do NOT want to keep your iPhone running at full steam and then maybe access to favorites, of course the current playlist, selecting players, maybe search.

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 08:58
I'll leave it in your capable hands [emoji6]

Better once the watch can run full apps rather than relying on the phone..

pippin
2015-04-28, 12:48
Well, it will always somehow rely on the phone. It can't communicate with anything else.

But right now the Watch is just a slide-shooter. Actually pretty close to how the SB3's UI works. There are 5 or 6 standard UI elements you can use and then you can throw images (or image sequences) that you prepare on the phone at it.
That's not enough.

For example, I would want to add actions to glances like Apple does. I need scrolling labels - like Apple uses them.
I want to create own UI elements.
Without that I doubt that there will be too much useful stuff coming out of third party Apps.
Actually I think remotes like iPeng might even be on the bright side because you can cover standard functionality like on the device and at home you don't need to have your phone with you. But beyond that....

Anyway. I just bought one today, it's not the one I wanted (I wanted a black one, now it's the "silver" stainless steel one with a white wristband, the watch looks and feels cool, the band sucks), you've got to take what you get right now.

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 15:54
I'm think you can go online and change the band if you don't like it.. Take a look. [emoji6]

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 15:54
Or did you mean a black watch?

pippin
2015-04-28, 16:32
Or did you mean a black watch?

Actually both. And since I didn't order the watch online but bought it in a store I can't really change it, had to buy what they had in stock.

I'm pretty happy about the stainless steel case but not the white sports band.

I think when the hype settles down I'll simply buy a Milanese or a leather band or maybe someone will sell 3rd party wristbands by then :)

Simon_rb
2015-04-28, 16:43
Both nice choices. I'm awaiting the link bracelet and blue leather loop. Lucky you found a store with some stock!! I hope you enjoy using it [emoji6]

pippin
2015-04-28, 17:36
Lucky you found a store with some stock!!

It's a bit odd. Apple doesn't sell the watch in their own stores but they do sell them in a handful of boutiques around the world, one of them in Berlin.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2015/04/23/you-can-buy-apple-watch-in-high-end-boutiques-this-week-but-not-apple-stores/

I know they had long queues last Friday and only let 3 or 4 people per hour in but when I showed up today there was no queue at all, two other people came around the same time I did and 10 minutes later I had my watch....



I hope you enjoy using it [emoji6]

Trying to. It's clearly a well-made Apple product. Gorgeous design (the watch, not the band) and well thought-out but it's clearly not my product line.
I refused to use fitness watches even when I was still running marathon although I just tried it out on a cycling round and it came quite handy. That's probably the use case I'm going to actually use it for, frequently.
I'm also not the high-frequency messaging guy who really needs to get notified of messages every few seconds. And Siri's not my friend, too.
And beyond that... most more complex tasks quickly call for you to pick up the iPhone. I don't really see a lot of sense in cumbersome scrolling through long lists of events if I have to carry my iPhone anyway.

So that leaves glances, notifications and quick remote control tasks, especially at home where you don't have to carry your iPhone.

Third party Apps so far are disappointing but that's probably no surprise given that almost nobody had a chance to test theirs on an actual device before shipping. But I think we'll really need a native SDK. And even then I don't think this will get the same kind of variety we see with phone and tablet Apps, it's simply a much more specialized device.

But it does make sense for iPeng. If Apple just hadn't put all the usual annoyances in there. Here goes another day just trying to get the code signing configuration right....

Simon_rb
2015-04-29, 00:40
I won't take anymore of your time. I look forward to seeing what you come up with [emoji106]

If you need anything, I'll try and help [emoji6]

Squeezemenicely
2015-04-30, 08:53
Well, Pippin. Good that you got your Watch. Mine finally arrived today - hungry for the iPeng App ;-)

Squeezemenicely
2015-04-30, 09:20
So that leaves glances, notifications and quick remote control tasks, especially at home where you don't have to carry your iPhone.



Handover from when you receive a call on your watch and then continuing on iPhone is an incredibly handy feature. That way you take a call and then try and get your phone out of your pants.

I used to have a Pebble - but this is a completely different ballgame. iPeng will be perfect for it. There is already a Hue app and switching on your lights from the Watch is cool.
Roomie remote also works on the watch - very handy.

Simon_rb
2015-06-07, 14:55
Hey! Great effort with the apple app considering the restrictions placed upon you. Hopefully SDK 2.0 will be showed off tomorrow and maybe even released. Hopefully they'll loosen up the restrictions for glances. Hopefully access to the digital crown will also come with SDK 2.0.

Again, great job with the app! Love it.

pippin
2015-06-07, 15:12
Yea, we'll see. They did already state that there will be a preview of the new SDK tomorrow and that it will be released in fall. We'll see whether there's a public beta this time.
Crown access is also already confirmed but no word about glances, yet. Using them directly for control would be so much better

Simon_rb
2015-06-15, 05:13
Yea, we'll see. They did already state that there will be a preview of the new SDK tomorrow and that it will be released in fall. We'll see whether there's a public beta this time.
Crown access is also already confirmed but no word about glances, yet. Using them directly for control would be so much better

I have enrolled for the public beta so I'll be updating in July if I get selected. I don't mind testing different builds. The slide over view would be great with iPeng. I have 9 beta 1 installed on my iPad Air 2 and the multi tasking does work great.

Did I read right that the mic and dictation feature is open to developers in watchOS 2? Could we maybe search for songs using the watch and add them to the playlist.

Coming back to the current Apple Watch app.. Been using it all the time and not needing to use my phone (only when I need to playlists). Great implementation.

Thanks!

pippin
2015-06-15, 07:43
Dictation is already available in WatchOS 1 and yes, I plan to use it. The problem is more one of how LMS is organized. The local search will probably work fine but the global search, which is the only thing giving you access to services is a hardly-usable mess on the watch, with all its sub menus

Simon_rb
2015-06-16, 02:35
Dictation is already available in WatchOS 1 and yes, I plan to use it. The problem is more one of how LMS is organized. The local search will probably work fine but the global search, which is the only thing giving you access to services is a hardly-usable mess on the watch, with all its sub menus

Ah, I didn't realise that. Good luck with that! Lol. Trying to fit so much into a small screen that is still usable must be a challenge. I wouldn't know where to start. Changing server would be handy as I run 2 LMS.. I'd love global search, saying that I only search local music and Spotify - I'm sure you'll work it out.

Have you looked at the multi tasking APIs? That looks interesting. Maybe the slide over can use the iPhone layout?

Let me know if you want me to test any apps using testflight, I'll PM my Apple ID.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pippin
2015-06-16, 10:18
Changing server would be handy as I run 2 LMS..

Yes but it's not an option. I would have to run the server discovery and since you can't do that pre-emptively in the background it would take way too long. Long enough that it's much easier to just run into another room, pick up the iPhone, unlock the screen , start iPeng and switch the server there...



Have you looked at the multi tasking APIs? That looks interesting. Maybe the slide over can use the iPhone layout?

Yea, I have to figure that one out. Was thinking about the iPhone layout but that might actually be confusing due to the different top-level menu structure.
I think I'll indeed stack the whole thing into one column, iPhone-like, but might keep the top- and bottom bar functions closer to how it works on iPad.
Don't know, yet.

Will give the beta a few revisions until I start experimenting with that.



Let me know if you want me to test any apps using testflight, I'll PM my Apple ID.

Yes, please send that

Simon_rb
2015-06-16, 10:21
Ok to the server switching.. It usually switches over automatically anyways. When my server turns on and grabs all my players from my raspberry pi and transfers them back when it shuts down. I'll PM you now.

Simon_rb
2015-06-16, 15:04
Have you thought about adding a widget? You could make one with cover art and basic and intermediate controls maybe. Could do it as an in app purchase or separate app. Take a look at quick remote for Kodi as an idea..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pippin
2015-06-17, 03:19
Yes. I decided against it last fall when Apple banned the use of buttons for a while but now that I've done the biggest part of it for the Watch App I'll give it another try

Simon_rb
2015-06-17, 03:20
Yes. I decided against it last fall when Apple banned the use of buttons for a while but now that I've done the biggest part of it for the Watch App I'll give it another try

Top man, if you need help testing..

Cheers

Simon_rb
2015-09-26, 06:36
Hi Pippin,
I have the iPhone 6S Plus of anything needs testing. Fingers crossed for a stand alone app for the watch [emoji1][emoji106]