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gb115b
2014-09-10, 06:08
Hi, my squeezeboxen seem to be suffering from hardware issues now, and with Logitech pulling the rug out on us, I was wondering what people recommend for replacements. is it time to move to a new system?

I need something with support for:
FLAC
Multiple Artists in Tags (so that rules out Sonos?).
Gapless Output.
Multiple synched player support.
also ideally 24-bit / 96Khz or 192 kHz support.

johnas
2014-09-10, 07:32
I would try and trouble shoot your hardware issues first before pulling the plug. If you post details on your problems users here will do their best to help you.

Also, if you are happy with LMS and the Squeezebox eco system there are lots of options for building your own players (PiCoreplayer on RPi, Squeeze on Arch etc).


Hi, my squeezeboxen seem to be suffering from hardware issues now, and with Logitech pulling the rug out on us, I was wondering what people recommend for replacements. is it time to move to a new system?

I need something with support for:
FLAC
Multiple Artists in Tags (so that rules out Sonos?).
Gapless Output.
Multiple synched player support.
also ideally 24-bit / 96Khz or 192 kHz support.

gb115b
2014-09-10, 08:14
I would try and trouble shoot your hardware issues first before pulling the plug. If you post details on your problems users here will do their best to help you.

Also, if you are happy with LMS and the Squeezebox eco system there are lots of options for building your own players (PiCoreplayer on RPi, Squeeze on Arch etc).



I'm assuming it's just down to failing hardware, but basically my Squeezebox 3 becomes unresponsive shortly after beginning playback, first it goes into 'buffering' state, but it doesn't seem to recover and doesn't respond to the remote, requiring me to power off and on again. - note this all used to work fine, and my Boom and Radio still chug along nicely in the other rooms.

is anyone selling prepackaged players like that... I don't really have the time for tinkering that I used to, and kind of just want a system that works! as for rolling your own are there any recommended configs (or are they all pretty similar?). I saw something called squeezeplug which sounded like it could be good. I guess my big worry on these ones is the multi-room synching aspect.

castalla
2014-09-10, 08:59
I saw something called squeezeplug which sounded like it could be good. I guess my big worry on these ones is the multi-room synching aspect.

Squeezeplug is the name for a modified version of debian with install scripts for LMS and players - it runs on Raspi or Odroid devices. The player is squeezelite - you'd probably need a usb audio dongle or dac plus speakers. Should sync okay.

johnas
2014-09-10, 09:09
Hi, are you running the player wireless and if so have you looked into the wireless signal where the player is located. The lms information page lists the signal strength.

Check the power supply, make sure it is seated and not causing a problem if you jiggle it.

The SB3 WiFi cards becoming unseated is also a problem some have reported (even if running wired). Reseat the card or last resort remove it.

Hopefully others will provide additional guidance, report back if you figure out!

Squeezeplug requires very little configuration when running on supported hardware, squeezelite. ( the player plugin) has good sync.

Grumpy Bob
2014-09-10, 11:30
I know the OP said they had limited time available for tinkering, but I've got a couple of Raspberry Pi running piCorePlayer, which uses Squeezelite, and has a web UI for admin and setup tasks. I'm using one with a HiFiBerry DAC, the other with a USB Headphone DAC. They really didn't take very long to setup and perform pretty well in my opinion.

Robert

get.amped
2014-09-10, 11:48
If the Boom and Radio are fine, fully functional SB3s are routinely available on e-bay for under $150 USD. I recently picked up 3 for $125 each for some friends who were envious of my system.

cparker
2014-09-11, 04:08
If the Boom and Radio are fine, fully functional SB3s are routinely available on e-bay for under $150 USD. I recently picked up 3 for $125 each for some friends who were envious of my system.

Also search on LastFM player on ebay, I picked up a cheap fully working Duet pair this way, the seller had no idea what they were actually selling, it was still running the original firmware! Ouch :)

gb115b
2014-09-11, 07:14
Also search on LastFM player on ebay, I picked up a cheap fully working Duet pair this way, the seller had no idea what they were actually selling, it was still running the original firmware! Ouch :)

wow, thanks! not many squeezebox 3s on the uk ebay site sadly... and i wonder if i'm just putting off the inevitable (given that hardware and software are no longer readily available, maybe it's time to call it quits?). it's a real shame what logitech did to slimdevices.

atrocity
2014-09-11, 07:36
wow, thanks! not many squeezebox 3s on the uk ebay site sadly... and i wonder if i'm just putting off the inevitable (given that hardware and software are no longer readily available, maybe it's time to call it quits?). it's a real shame what logitech did to slimdevices.

The software is under active development. Logitech-manufactured hardware is out of production, but there's no shortage of low-cost alternatives that work great with LMS.

cliveb
2014-09-11, 09:23
The software is under active development. Logitech-manufactured hardware is out of production, but there's no shortage of low-cost alternatives that work great with LMS.
Quite so. And in the context of running an LMS-based system, the hardware is a secondary consideration: you will always be able to build/acquire suitable hardware.

If you jump ship to another system, however, where are you going to go? If you want to ensure you'll always be able to get hardware that fits in, you're basically condemning yourself to living with the hell that is DLNA.

To avoid that, I suppose you can switch to Sonos. But now you really *are* locking yourself into one vendor's hardware.

For a useable multi-room streaming system, LMS remains a very sensible choice.

atrocity
2014-09-11, 10:33
For a useable multi-room streaming system, LMS remains a very sensible choice.

And as much as we all like to scratch our heads and wonder what Logitech was thinking, I'm very grateful to them and to SlimDevices for getting us to this point.

Given how much interest there still is in the system and how many of us have concluded that there's still nothing better, it seems like it would be pretty easy for Logitech to get back into the game if they ever wanted to.

For some reason, this makes me think of Fiesta, a popular American line of dinnerware that was pulled from production by its manufacturer. After a few years of watching prices for used pieces skyrocket, they realized they were missing out and began making the stuff again. Of course, the salad plates didn't do such a great job of decoding FLAC...

yxz11
2014-09-11, 12:08
Get an Android box, see

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102125-Android-Media-Player-as-squeezebox-replacement

GeeJay
2014-09-11, 19:12
I am actively watching for a true replacement for SB. There are some interesting designs, but the software is so rudimentary, or the devices don't sync, that it amazes me a commercial venture doesn't simply come out with an LMS compatible device. Hell, even highly-touted "audiophile quality" devices that cost thousands of dollars can't do what I want them to do.

I'll bide my time, and if one of my SBs break down I'll either buy a used one on eBay (at a premium over what I paid, but still cheaper than inferior alternatives), or figure out how to build one myself.

Mnyb
2014-09-12, 10:11
.... And some wifi problems does not usually means that the device is broken . OP migth be trying to solve the wrong problem ?

paulster
2014-09-12, 22:14
I am actively watching for a true replacement for SB. There are some interesting designs, but the software is so rudimentary, or the devices don't sync, that it amazes me a commercial venture doesn't simply come out with an LMS compatible device. Hell, even highly-touted "audiophile quality" devices that cost thousands of dollars can't do what I want them to do.

I have a load of Logitech SB hardware, but I've taken it all out of service now. All of my Squeezelite-powered units sync perfectly, play high-res audio, and do everything and more than the Logitech hardware that preceded them did.

atrocity
2014-09-13, 15:29
I have a load of Logitech SB hardware, but I've taken it all out of service now. All of my Squeezelite-powered units sync perfectly, play high-res audio, and do everything and more than the Logitech hardware that preceded them did.

Only issue I've had with unofficial hardware is an inability to play the pay streaming services, or at least Rhapsody. In my case, it's a minor issue, but I could see it being a showstopper for others.

paulster
2014-09-13, 15:43
I used to use MOG, and now I use Spotify, so I'm a paid streaming service customer. I do know that Rhapsody is a problem, but there are perfectly viable alternatives that work just fine.

philippe_44
2014-09-14, 21:21
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1 Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3 and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway between the 2 systems using the SB Touch and, to my real surprise, the synchronization between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really amazed as there is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for hours. Of course, I have to move to Sonos controller when I want to switch on/off the Sonos speakers, but at the end, this is a really good setting - I still love my SB system (still improving it :-))

atrocity
2014-09-15, 07:23
I used to use MOG, and now I use Spotify, so I'm a paid streaming service customer. I do know that Rhapsody is a problem, but there are perfectly viable alternatives that work just fine.

That's very good to know, thank you!

JonWill
2014-09-15, 07:43
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1 Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3 and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway between the 2 systems using the SB Touch and, to my real surprise, the synchronization between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really amazed as there is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for hours. Of course, I have to move to Sonos controller when I want to switch on/off the Sonos speakers, but at the end, this is a really good setting - I still love my SB system (still improving it :-))

I'd be interested i understanding how this works - do you point the Sonos system to LMS for its music library? And how does syncing work, other than by trying to rpess play at the same time :) If I could move slowly over to a mixed economy that would be ideal ...

GeeJay
2014-09-15, 19:11
I've been a user of many SB devices (3 Boom, 4 radio, 4 receiver, 1 Touch, 1 SB3 ...) I really love these devices, but I have to confess, at the risk of receiving tomatoes, that I've now added 2 Sonos:1, 1 Sonos:3 and 1 Sonos:5 and I was able to have them reasonably intregrated with LMS system. LMS is still the center, but I the Sonos:5 acts as a gateway between the 2 systems using the SB Touch and, to my real surprise, the synchronization between the 2 system is absolutely perfect. I'm really amazed as there is no audible lag between the 2 and it can last for hours. Of course, I have to move to Sonos controller when I want to switch on/off the Sonos speakers, but at the end, this is a really good setting - I still love my SB system (still improving it :-))

This is interesting. So LMS controls the Sonos units (outside of power on/off)? Are all the LMS plug-ins available?

philippe_44
2014-09-15, 19:17
I'd be interested i understanding how this works - do you point the Sonos system to LMS for its music library? And how does syncing work, other than by trying to rpess play at the same time :) If I could move slowly over to a mixed economy that would be ideal ...

It is at the same time more simple and less elegant :-)

Sonos cannot point to LMS, they ignore each other. What Sonos does well is distributing analog source connected to the line-in of any capable device (a play:5 or a connect) to any other device in the Sonos system and keeping them fully in sync. So it is as simple as connecting the line-out of a SB3 or a Touch or a Receiver to any Sonos device with Line-In. Then _that_ Squeezebox device becomes your bridge. In other words, you have to always play on that SB device to be able to listen to your music on the Sonos system. The Sonos is, to some extend, just used as wireless speakers with enhanced synchronization capabilities. What is amazing is that when I tried that, I was expecting the Sonos system to delay the analog input to a few 100ms and have to delay all my Squeezebox devices to take that into account, I was expecting awfull jitter at all - well, not at all (and I've been using that for almost 2 years). There is no audible delay between an analog input of a Sonos system and that same music forwarded to any other sonos devices - this is just instant "forward"

So, what is played on my Sonos "extensions" is fully controlled by my Squeezebox system (I use iPeng a lot, it is really a great piece of software). The only time when I use the Sonos controller is to mute / unmute / group Sonos speakers as, again, all the Sonos speakers appears as "one single entity" to the SB system. But that's all. Of course, at any time, you can ask the Sonos system to play something else than the line-in of (eg) a Play:5. The Sonos system is pointing to the same folder containing my music, so everything is as well available "natively"

Say you have

Kitchen : Boombox
Dinner room : SB3 on amplifier speakers
Bedroom : Radio

you add Sonos devices
Dinner room : Play:5
Bedroom : 2xSonos:1

Connect line-out of SB3 to the Play:5 line-in using a Y connector

To play on the Sonos(Dinner) or Sonos(Bedroom), the caveat is that you have to play on SB(Kitchen). On Sonos, configure it to re-play Sonos(Dinner:LineIn) to Sonos(Bedroom) and/or Sonos(Dinner). Using your prefered SB controller, then do what you used to do, and all speakers in Bedroom will play in perfect sync, although they are a combo of Sonos and Squeezebox. If you want to switch off Sonos(Dinner) or Sonos(Bedroom), use the Sonos application on your preferred smartphone. You can also dedicated an "old" Squeezebox receiver to be the bridge between the system, not connected to any speaker - in that case, no annoyance of having mandatory sound to be heard in one room to bridge to Sonos. I feel it is a very smooth transition or a very good combo

JonWill
2014-09-16, 00:04
It is at the same time more simple and less elegant :-)

Not quite as perfect as I had hoped - you need one additional player... however much better than replacing my entire system with e.g. Sonoses in one go - thanks very much for the explanation - food for thought!

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 06:45
Not quite as perfect as I had hoped - you need one additional player... however much better than replacing my entire system with e.g. Sonoses in one go - thanks very much for the explanation - food for thought!

In fact, that makes me think that a better solution could be to re-use things like squeezelite to create a stream that can be picked-up by Sonos, this bridge being run by the computer running LMS ... hmmm let's think about it. Would you like it better ? Anybody having an opinion ? what can we do with http://<Your Sonos IP>:1400/customsd.htm and http://musicpartners.sonos.com/?q=node/21 ? seems that it is possible to add own streams

philippe_44
2014-09-16, 12:06
In fact, I was thinking that is I can get a multiple instance of SqueezeLite, all feeding different streams connected to Sonos controller, it might be an interesting solution. In other words

SqueezeLite:1 ==> Stream:1 ==> Sonos device:1
SqueezeLite:2 ==> Stream:2 ==> Sonos device:2
. . . . .
SqueezeLite:N ==> Stream:N ==> Sonos device:N

So, from LMS, each Sonos device would be a separated SqueezeLite entity, so it would be independently controllable as far as volume and what is played on to it. From Sonos controller, what is needed is to play a different stream on each device. Synchronization is not likely to work, but it can be achieved by connecting multiple Sonos devices to a single stream

It might be a resource hog, I don't know but I'll try with one first to see if it is possible to easily procude a stream (like a radio stream) that Sonos would recognize and if it works, then I'll see how to hack Squeezelite and a simple streamer. I realize it might not work at all, but can be a fun result :-)

Thoughts ?

bpa
2014-09-17, 00:41
then I'll see how to hack Squeezelite and a simple streamer.

Probably no need to hack squeezelite as it already does output to stdout and has been used in other threads to pipe audio into other applications. In this case possibly VLC but it does not support http streaming Flac only streaming MP3 and possibly other lossy audio.

cliveb
2014-09-17, 00:57
In fact, I was thinking that is I can get a multiple instance of SqueezeLite, all feeding different streams connected to Sonos controller, it might be an interesting solution. In other words

SqueezeLite:1 ==> Stream:1 ==> Sonos device:1
SqueezeLite:2 ==> Stream:2 ==> Sonos device:2
. . . . .
SqueezeLite:N ==> Stream:N ==> Sonos device:N

So, from LMS, each Sonos device would be a separated SqueezeLite entity, so it would be independently controllable as far as volume and what is played on to it. From Sonos controller, what is needed is to play a different stream on each device. Synchronization is not likely to work, but it can be achieved by connecting multiple Sonos devices to a single stream
Sorry, am I missing something here?

It seems to me what's being proposed is a way of using Sonos devices as Squeezeboxes, and getting them properly integrated into LMS.

Why would anyone do that? Why would they use expensive Sonos devices to emulate what can be built for a fraction of the cost using things like RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?

bpa
2014-09-17, 02:02
Why would anyone do that? Why would they use expensive Sonos devices to emulate what can be built for a fraction of the cost using things like RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want "proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security

philippe_44
2014-09-17, 06:10
Probably no need to hack squeezelite as it already does output to stdout and has been used in other threads to pipe audio into other applications. In this case possibly VLC but it does not support http streaming Flac only streaming MP3 and possibly other lossy audio.

That's what I'm doing now for test. I started with FFmpeg to directly do RTP but unfortunately Sonos does not support RTP. So I will either use FFServer or VLC. But, for going beyond just the test that would proove feasibility, I was more concerned about the CPU required by multiple transcoding, i.e Squeezelite decoding then VLC re-coding, that x times number of streams ... pretty inefficient, no ?

philippe_44
2014-09-17, 06:12
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want "proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security

Exactly - this is about transition. SOmetimes, you'll go native Sonos, but not at the begining. I agree that if the objective is to keep LMS for ever and for a guy that like tinkering, this is not an issue - but most users don't want to do that

Roland0
2014-09-17, 06:58
That's what I'm doing now for test. I started with FFmpeg to directly do RTP but unfortunately Sonos does not support RTP. So I will either use FFServer or VLC. But, for going beyond just the test that would proove feasibility, I was more concerned about the CPU required by multiple transcoding, i.e Squeezelite decoding then VLC re-coding, that x times number of streams ... pretty inefficient, no ?

If mp3 is acceptable, the simplest way would be to point the sonos devices to http://lmsserver:9000/stream.mp3 (see here (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_streaming) for details)

dafiend
2014-09-17, 08:25
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want "proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security
It's not that with LMS, DIY is the only option left. You can employ Android (or iOS) based devices. Getting the client running is as easy as installing an app. It doesn't get much more user-friendly than that IMO.

philippe_44
2014-09-17, 09:18
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want "proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security


If mp3 is acceptable, the simplest way would be to point the sonos devices to http://lmsserver:9000/stream.mp3 (see here (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_streaming) for details)

Great ! I did not remember that LMS feature. Tried quickly and Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS recognizes the Sonos client - I'll see how sync works (i'not home currently so a bit difficult to listen to the result) but if it works, then it might be more than good enough - Thanks !

GeeJay
2014-09-17, 14:23
Transition strategy - making sure some LMS facilities are still accessible. RE Raspberry etc. alternatives some people only want "proper" products not DIY perhaps as a sense of security

I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.

philippe_44
2014-09-17, 20:47
I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.

a SB receiver ... and LMS (staying in that line - I guess we do not take about Sonos here)

philippe_44
2014-09-17, 20:52
Great ! I did not remember that LMS feature. Tried quickly and Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS recognizes the Sonos client - I'll see how sync works (i'not home currently so a bit difficult to listen to the result) but if it works, then it might be more than good enough - Thanks !

Bummer ... Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS shows it as a device. That's cool but that device cannot be synchronized. So that's a good start, but the missing sync is making that a less interesting feature than my hardware bridge

[edit] : a Sonos client cannot be added to an existing stream, it can only be the leader of the stream. But, 2 Sonos clients can be sync together ... hmmm ... need to investigate why

cliveb
2014-09-18, 06:01
I'll probably try to figure out all this Raspberry Pi stuff one day, out of necessity, but I try to follow all those threads and I don't understand most of what you guys are talking about. Someone tells me I can plug a box into my stereo system and get music...that I understand.
If you just want to be able to buy a piece of hardware that will integrate into your LMS system, pre-built RaspberryPi + HiFiBerry in a case packages are starting to appear on eBay. Here's are two examples on the UK eBay site: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DBM-Network-Audio-Player-Music-Streamer-DLNA-UPNP-HiFiBerry-Squeezebox-/281427452471?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item4186622237 and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HifiBerry-DAC-Music-Streamer-/131292006075?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1e919d06bb (Not cheap, but neither is Sonos).

pablolie
2014-09-18, 20:45
Sorry, am I missing something here?
".. using things like RaspPi/Odroid/Wandboard/etc?

i still miss a good primer on this. there's always a reference it's around somewhere, but is there an idiot's quide to building a community squeezebox replacement somewhere? or can we buy a packaged one? i don't want to compile, install and troubleshoot. i'd rather pay $200.

GeeJay
2014-09-20, 10:51
If you just want to be able to buy a piece of hardware that will integrate into your LMS system, pre-built RaspberryPi + HiFiBerry in a case packages are starting to appear on eBay. Here's are two examples on the UK eBay site: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DBM-Network-Audio-Player-Music-Streamer-DLNA-UPNP-HiFiBerry-Squeezebox-/281427452471?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item4186622237 and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HifiBerry-DAC-Music-Streamer-/131292006075?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item1e919d06bb (Not cheap, but neither is Sonos).

Actually, that IS cheap compared to Sonos. $200-$250 USD is right where I want to be, although I certainly wouldn't mind paying less when I can. Thanks for posting those links.


i still miss a good primer on this. there's always a reference it's around somewhere, but is there an idiot's quide to building a community squeezebox replacement somewhere? or can we buy a packaged one? i don't want to compile, install and troubleshoot. i'd rather pay $200.

Amen. Almost all the commercial boxes I see are well above that.

wortgefecht
2014-09-20, 11:47
i'd rather pay $200.

Not sure, whether this device already came up here: http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM1.html

The SOtM sMS-100. Even though it's called a 'mini server', it's actually an audiophile Squeezebox compatible box: "SOtM sMS-100 is a network player which supports SqueezeLite (i.e. LMS), AirPlay, DLNA/MPD, and HQPlayer NAA function."

The korean manufacturer delivers also a matching USB DAC/headphone amp and an external power supply as well as a rack for all three: http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/products/advanced/

It's a bit more expensive than $200, it's more on the $500 side.

Oh, and then there is this nice device here: http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-1000/ It's a CD/DVD ripping station slash LMS (DLNA, SMB, NFS) server with a 2 gb hdd.

Julf
2014-09-20, 12:24
Not sure, whether this device already came up here

Yes, the SOtM has been discussed every now and then. Mostly with people questioning the high price compared to something like the Raspberry PI, but I guess the Sonore people have to recoup the cost of paid product placement on sites like Computer Audiophile.

cliveb
2014-09-20, 23:18
Oh, and then there is this nice device here: http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-1000/ It's a CD/DVD ripping station slash LMS (DLNA, SMB, NFS) server with a 2 gb hdd.
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about 300

wortgefecht
2014-09-21, 04:54
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about 300

Thank you for introducing me to Vortexbox :) Unfortunately, I haven't heard of that until now ... Looks like what I need, LMS, Squeezelite and Google Play Music plugin! Some years ago I picked up a used Reson rh1 (a modified Hifidelio Pro) for a few bucks, but since it only came with a 80 gb hdd AND was pre-filled by the previous owner who forgot (!) to wipe his collection from it, I only toyed around with it for a while. Now it's collecting dust.

The Reson rh1:
16418
http://www.justhifi.de/Reson_rh1_a3131.html

Does anyone here have any experience with a dedicated Vortexbox 2.3 box, preferably home built?

Julf
2014-09-21, 05:14
And they want $2.5k for this?

Well, at least it isn't as bad as the $6,500 you have to pay for the same stuff in a McIntosh box (http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/categorylanding.aspx?CatId=MediaStreamers).

mcdudeabides
2014-09-21, 07:16
Does anyone here have any experience with a dedicated Vortexbox 2.3 box, preferably home built?

I've bought a couple from Small Green Computer (Andrew, the founder of Vortexbox, store front) and built several for family and friends. I think it is one of the best Linux platforms for a LMS based media platform. Keep in mind that it goes beyond just trying to host LMS and provides a number of other services (CD ripping, metadata via BLISS, FLAC->MP3 sync, etc.) as well. The community also is constantly extending the platform and you can find a number of useful utilities/add-ons. If the Vortexbox interests you, then you might want to drop in on their forum directly. The community is very helpful and Ron Olsen is an omnipresent guru that helps with all matter of things (very helpful for giving non-Linux users context and perspective for some of the internals).

http://vortexbox.org/forum
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/

garym
2014-09-21, 07:36
I've bought a couple from Small Green Computer (Andrew, the founder of Vortexbox, store front) and built several for family and friends. I think it is one of the best Linux platforms for a LMS based media platform. Keep in mind that it goes beyond just trying to host LMS and provides a number of other services (CD ripping, metadata via BLISS, FLAC->MP3 sync, etc.) as well. The community also is constantly extending the platform and you can find a number of useful utilities/add-ons. If the Vortexbox interests you, then you might want to drop in on their forum directly. The community is very helpful and Ron Olsen is an omnipresent guru that helps with all matter of things (very helpful for giving non-Linux users context and perspective for some of the internals).

http://vortexbox.org/forum
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/

agree. I have 3 Vortexboxes (purchased from Small Green Computer, but since updated to the latest VB 2.3 OS). One can use these simply as servers for hardware SBs or use the included "squeezelite" players to have one or more software SB players residing within the VB and feeding analog (or more likely, USB > DAC) outputs for different locations. All using LMS and controllable with the same things (webGUI, iPeng, etc.).

wortgefecht
2014-09-21, 08:23
Thanks for the links! I checked several suppliers of ready-made VortexBox boxes and as far as I can see, they all use standard parts and cases, some even have very detailed lists of components. So I should be able to build my own in order to replace my ASRock Ion 330 working as a server and the Duet connected to my amp :) I'll check out the VortexBox forum as well.

philippe_44
2014-09-21, 22:31
Bummer ... Sonos recognizes the stream and LMS shows it as a device. That's cool but that device cannot be synchronized. So that's a good start, but the missing sync is making that a less interesting feature than my hardware bridge

[edit] : a Sonos client cannot be added to an existing stream, it can only be the leader of the stream. But, 2 Sonos clients can be sync together ... hmmm ... need to investigate why

Back home for some tests - this is unfortuately unusable. Sonos streams properly from http://<my LMS>/stream.mp3 but the delay for start or stop is like 30 seconds. Propably just the fact that this is heavily buffered and the Sonos client just get the stream from LMS "as it is", LMS is just a http audio server. Well I guess I will have at least to get back to squeezelite and translate a few commands to Sonos as an uPnP client. This will obviously be a long journey :-). I'v seen other threads where people manage to have something similar, but not exactly that, especially no sycn and lot of transcoding that I'd like to avoid. If I cannot make it work with at minimum a sync between LMS and Sonos, then I'd better stick to my current HW solution which provides perfect audio synchro, just with that limitation that the whole Sonos system is seens a single player by LMS

[edit] : I'll move that to another thread

agillis
2014-09-22, 09:03
It would appear to be a Vortexbox in nice case.
It even has the Vortexbox logo on the front.
And they want $2.5k for this?
Pre-built 2TB Vortexbox servers can be had on eBay for about 300

I helped them build this unit and i'll give you the info on what makes it better then a stock VortexBox that I sell

- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the border. Very "Apple like"
- Custom low noise power supply
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.
- Extensive dealer network. You can go a listen to this box before buying it. Remember as will all high end audio dealers take a cut to demo an support a product.
- Marketing, The above poster is correct. I'm sure they spend money (as most companies do) on promoting their products.

Does all this make it worth the extra cost? The customers that have purchased one from me tell me yes. They tell me the get the best sound out of their high end DACs with the SOtM. The customers that purchase this unit has all spent over $1000 just on their DAC and are using it to feed a high end system.

There are may different VortexBox appliance units at different price ranges. It depends on what your looking for.

Julf
2014-09-22, 09:20
- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the border. Very "Apple like"

Yes, good looking - but I guess no effect on sound quality.


- Custom low noise power supply

How much audible difference does it make?


- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.

What makes one USB card "better" than another?


- Extensive dealer network. You can go a listen to this box before buying it. Remember as will all high end audio dealers take a cut to demo an support a product.
- Marketing, The above poster is correct. I'm sure they spend money (as most companies do) on promoting their products.

Indeed.

cliveb
2014-09-22, 09:38
- Custom aluminium case. You really need to see it to appreciate how beautiful it is and and how well it works. The CD slot is hidden in the border. Very "Apple like"
I agree that it does look very nice.
(I hate to say this, but IMHO the one thing that slightly spoils its appearance is the Vortexbox logo on the front !)



- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.
I thought the point about modern asynchronous USB DACs is that they are unaffected by the quality of the USB host (within reason).

wortgefecht
2014-09-22, 15:17
- SOtM USB card. As may of you already know this is the best USB card in the industry. Precision oscillators, super low noise power supplies etc.

There is a German retailer selling VortexBox "audiophile" devices for 2K that come with - according to the seller - either a ESI Juli@ XTe (I have this one in my custom built desktop PC) or a "SOtM tX-USB exp PCIe USB 3.0". Is this the one used in the SOtM boxes and what makes it so special?

My ESI Juli@ came together with Cubase LE from Steinberg and Steinberg claims, that this PCIe card is "the best the market has to offer".

Julf
2014-09-23, 07:46
Steinberg claims, that this PCIe card is "the best the market has to offer".

Don't they all? :)

wortgefecht
2014-09-23, 08:49
Don't they all? :)

Sure they do ;) That's why I asked about the SOtM card!

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