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StridingEdge
2014-09-04, 11:53
Hey all

My Touch was working perfectly until the scan started terminating after a minute or so. I have decided that I can no longer run with a device that is unsupported and cannot waste any more time trying to fix a problem for which there seems to be no company support and with an issue that it seems like many others have had with no resolution for.

So, what other options are out there for a streaming device. I just want an interface to play the playlists / music on my PC - all FLAC files.

get.amped
2014-09-04, 12:25
Hmmm... Coming to the SB enthusiast forum looking for alternatives to the SB environment... After a little rant...

Sarcasm aside, I have yet to find anything that works as well. The LMS server platform is continuing to be developed outside of the official Logitech release and a number of player options are available on 3rd party HW.

The people in this forum are quite helpful and can probably point you towards an answer for your scanning issues. I have built numerous LMS servers and they all run quite reliably 24/7. Provide some details (LMS version, HW platform, network config) and you might be surprised how quickly you get some answers.

yeomanspc
2014-09-04, 17:32
Hey all

My Touch was working perfectly until the scan started terminating after a minute or so.

well, what changed? In my experience, scans usually fail because you have a bad file - either bad tags, or a playlist that refers to deleted or moved music. Did you look in the scanner log? What version of LMS are you on? IMHO, support and reliability of the squeeze system has never been better than it is now...

StridingEdge
2014-09-04, 22:43
Yes, bad file it turns out. It wasn't a rant at all, just sheer disappointment. I muddied the actual question by supplying the immediate reason behind it and that is, for the sake of the argument, irrelevant. I have been toying with the concept of another device since buying the Touch.

But, as with many others I have seen on here over the last year or so, I can see a finite lifetime for the Touch, as everything has of course but I know if it has any sort of actual fault it's not going to get fixed. I was merely interested in other devices on the market. When I bought the Touch there were few, if any, alternatives other than the Sonos. Now, when you look on Amazon, there are a lot of streaming boxes from the stables of a few of the well known mid-priced manufactures, such as Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc. I was wondering if anyone had any experience of them?

One particular question is - are there any GOOD devices, that people know of, that stream (both from internet and PC) and that combine a player that can handle CD, SACD, DVD-A, CD-R etc etc

atrocity
2014-09-05, 10:12
One particular question is - are there any GOOD devices, that people know of, that stream (both from internet and PC) and that combine a player that can handle CD, SACD, DVD-A, CD-R etc etc

You might want to look at the Oppo players. They play all the disc formats you mentioned and do some streaming. As far as I know, streaming from your own library still involves DLNA/UPNP with no gapless playback, though you'd be able to stream multichannel FLAC.

They also stream from the Internet, though I'm not sure if you can just "tune in" a URL like you can in Squeeze World. Oppos are pre-loaded with apps for Pandora, Netflix, etc...I haven't put any serious work into investigating non-app options.

I bought my first Squeezebox in 2008 and have yet to see anything else that comes close.

StridingEdge
2014-09-05, 10:22
You might want to look at the Oppo players. They play all the disc formats you mentioned and do some streaming. As far as I know, streaming from your own library still involves DLNA/UPNP with no gapless playback, though you'd be able to stream multichannel FLAC.

They also stream from the Internet, though I'm not sure if you can just "tune in" a URL like you can in Squeeze World. Oppos are pre-loaded with apps for Pandora, Netflix, etc...I haven't put any serious work into investigating non-app options.

I bought my first Squeezebox in 2008 and have yet to see anything else that comes close.

Thanks for that. All my Flac files are stereo (I assume when you said "multichannel you were referring to 5.1?) and that's all I want from that side of things. Do the Oppos handle that OK?

JJZolx
2014-09-05, 10:56
Yes, bad file it turns out. It wasn't a rant at all, just sheer disappointment.

"Sheer disappointment" in software that is unable to read a bad file? :confused:

Anyway...

Are you unaware of the many different approaches to creating a Squeezebox equivalent from a small, inexpensive computer? It's discussed in many, many threads in these forums.

StridingEdge
2014-09-05, 11:04
"Sheer disappointment" in software that is unable to read a bad file? :confused:

Anyway...

Are you unaware of the many different approaches to creating a Squeezebox equivalent from a small, inexpensive computer? It's discussed in many, many threads in these forums.

Well I didn't know that was the cause - had I known what the reason was I wouldn't have asked about it on here would I? Besides, I was under the impression that the complete scan process did a clean cache at the same time - apparently not!

Er... no to your question. I only visited here a few times when I initially got the box, so I have not been party to discussions of that nature

atrocity
2014-09-05, 11:09
Thanks for that. All my Flac files are stereo (I assume when you said "multichannel you were referring to 5.1?) and that's all I want from that side of things. Do the Oppos handle that OK?

The Oppos will play 2.0 just fine. But if your taste runs to opera or prog rock or any other genre where a single piece of music spans multiple tracks, you'll likely be annoyed by the lack of gapless playback. Though I dimly remember hearing that Oppo was working on fixing that for directly attached storage (but not for files streamed over the network).

The suggestion about small, cheap computers is also a good one. $125 gets you a Wandboard that works just fine as both Squeeze server and player. There may be a slight learning curve involved in initially writing the operating system to the MicroSD card, but once you've got it up and running it's absurdly easy to keep updated.

JJZolx
2014-09-05, 11:19
Well I didn't know that was the cause - had I known what the reason was I wouldn't have asked about it on here would I?

Which is what I would do as well. This is a good place to ask such questions. I was commenting on your "sheer disappointment".


Besides, I was under the impression that the complete scan process did a clean cache at the same time - apparently not!

A full scan will clear the databases of their contents first, but it doesn't actually remove the files. So if a database file is corrupted, the only way to fix the problem is to delete the file. That's what the clear cache function does. You can also do the same thing by stopping the LMS server and deleting the files manually.


Er... no to your question. I only visited here a few times when I initially got the box, so I have not been party to discussions of that nature

Ask questions. (There are no stupid questions, right?) Educate yourself. Everyone here is glad to help.

StridingEdge
2014-09-05, 11:29
It would make more sense to clear cache as part of the process wouldn't it? What would it matter if it was an automated and combined process? Are there any downsides to that? I might, as new practice clear it every time I do a complete scan from now on.

The disappointment was the final straw at the end of a crap day - not just a particular reaction just to a computer based element that didn't work. If the latter was normally such a big deal I'd have topped myself years ago :)

yeomanspc
2014-09-06, 08:14
So to get back to your original question re the touch replacement, a lot of us bought a spare (or more) player. With Michael doing some excellent work on 7.9, and having looked round at a lot of players, I conclude that there is nothing around today to replace all that the Squeezebox environment does, and that whatever comes along it is unlikely to last the 12+ years that Squeezebox has. Many on here (myself included) have future-proofed and you could do the same. I expect to be using the Squeeze system in 10 years - how many tech system last that long now? When my Logitech hardware dies I have tried Raspberry Pi with the HIFiBerry cards, the Odroid, the Wandboard (mentioned above) as excellent headless players which when combined with Ipeng or other tablet controllers provide function that is fine, and a fraction of the cost of Sonos etc. I am not concerned about hardware. I moved the server to the NAS so no longer need a windows PC, and for spare server I have an Odroid which absolutely flies. The only faint worry is MySqueezeboxServer.com which has to be pulled eventually, but I am sure we'll work round that (a lot of progress already). IMHO, Logitech couldn't make this pay because it was so darned good and had insufficient levers to force users to keep upgrading the hardware that the business was flawed. It's too open, but that's your protection too.

BTW, bad files / tags etc. will mess up other systems also :-)

StridingEdge
2014-09-06, 09:05
Thanks - that's interesting. I will continue to look at solutions and see what is best. I might, I confess, go down the Sonos route but it is an expensive one.

Re Tags - I see more problems on home audio forums relating to poor tagging than just about anything else. I was lucky to have spent some time with Media Jukebox before going down the Logitech route and I've got a good handle on them. It does help if you're anally retentive with Tags, as I am. The more you use them (and learn to do so correctly) the more useful they are. That's aside from the problems caused by not using them, using them incorrectly or being inconsistent..

get.amped
2014-09-06, 10:16
Thanks - that's interesting. I will continue to look at solutions and see what is best. I might, I confess, go down the Sonos route but it is an expensive one.

Re Tags - I see more problems on home audio forums relating to poor tagging than just about anything else. I was lucky to have spent some time with Media Jukebox before going down the Logitech route and I've got a good handle on them. It does help if you're anally retentive with Tags, as I am. The more you use them (and learn to do so correctly) the more useful they are. That's aside from the problems caused by not using them, using them incorrectly or being inconsistent..

I've known others that tried Sonos and were not only disappointed, but out a bunch of cash as the resale value is not great. The single biggest issue is the inherent 64K track limitation in its internal library, but the interface and ways to interact with it are also limiting.

StridingEdge
2014-09-06, 10:53
^ I read somewhere, only in the last couple of days, that Sonos are changing from that limitation. I'll try and find the link...

Here we are

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/03/sonos-drops-price-music-systems-high-resolution-wireless-mp3

and...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11072032/Sonos-ditches-the-Bridge.html

get.amped
2014-09-06, 11:40
^ I read somewhere, only in the last couple of days, that Sonos are changing from that limitation. I'll try and find the link...

Here we are

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/03/sonos-drops-price-music-systems-high-resolution-wireless-mp3

and...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11072032/Sonos-ditches-the-Bridge.html

I don't think ditching their proprietary wireless mesh changes the basic limitation of how much music the system can handle. My understanding is that you will still need a separate DLNA server if you want to have more than the internal limit and that introduces other issues.

garym
2014-09-06, 11:57
I don't think ditching their proprietary wireless mesh changes the basic limitation of how much music the system can handle. My understanding is that you will still need a separate DLNA server if you want to have more than the internal limit and that introduces other issues.

correct. maximum 65k tracks, and even less depending on the number of tag fields one uses. Can't use artwork larger than a certain size either. And controller/viewing/selecting is limited to just the very basics. If one is used to the customization of views, use of tags, etc., one will be quite disappointed. I bought a sonos just to play with. It works fine and does what it says it will do. But there is no customization, plugins, etc. Again, does what it says it will do, but a very different ecosystem as compared with squeezeboxes.

jmschnur
2014-09-06, 19:31
You might look at JRiver software and their new hardware.

StridingEdge
2014-09-06, 23:24
You might look at JRiver software and their new hardware.

I just looked at their site - cannot see any mention of hardware options

)p(
2014-09-06, 23:40
I just looked at their site - cannot see any mention of hardware options

They sell a device they call the id. Its basically an intel nuc with their Linux version of jrmc preinstalled and setup so it works out of the box.

See:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89084.0

StridingEdge
2014-09-07, 03:05
Possibly interesting but doesn't look like anything near the finished article and not what I'm looking for.

I suppose what I really want is something very similar to the Touch but with a screen twice the size and a remote you don't need a teenager with a magnifying glass to use (to see the tiny buttons and even tinier writing)


Let's see what's my needs are ...
1. Large screen that displays album artwork
2. Large remote with well laid out buttons. The Touch fails miserably on all counts - the buttons are not laid out well, they are too small and the writing can only be seen with assistance - all presumably because they insisted on making it the same size as the Touch so that they would fit into the same outer box
3. Streaming FLAC and other lossless files from a PC via wireless and to be able to handle a large library
4. Stream radio from the internet
5. Handle extensive tagging
6. Best audio quality, without the need to add external DAC

A multi-format player in the same box would be a plus (but that's probably going to be a different task entirely) - the reason for this is that I have no SACD or DVD-A playback capabilities at the moment and will need it soon. My Meridian CD player is now 15 plus years old and has already had a replacement laser, for which there are now no replacements available. Therefore, I am envisaging a new player will soon be needed and that needs to play the aforementioned disc types. And, of course, it needs to be of a similar quality to that of the Meridian - which rules out a lot of devices that one can find on, for example, Amazon. That might seem restrictive as a place to look for new Hi-Fi but as far as I can tell there are only two Hi-Fi stores of any note in Kent.

I'm waffling..........

castalla
2014-09-07, 05:17
Possibly interesting but doesn't look like anything near the finished article and not what I'm looking for.

I suppose what I really want is something very similar to the Touch but with a screen twice the size and a remote you don't need a teenager with a magnifying glass to use (to see the tiny buttons and even tinier writing)


..........

Why not just use a larger programmable remote ?

Mnyb
2014-09-07, 05:22
Why not just use a larger programmable remote ?

Or a tablet , I'm happy with the tablet solution as it also solve the display issue :)

I also run iRule on to have remotes for other stuff ,Meridian system TV and TV box and blueray player .

get.amped
2014-09-07, 05:23
...
1. Large screen that displays album artwork
2. Large remote with well laid out buttons. The Touch fails miserably on all counts - the buttons are not laid out well, they are too small and the writing can only be seen with assistance - all presumably because they insisted on making it the same size as the Touch so that they would fit into the same outer box
...

There's no particular reason that the *player* needs this. This functionality is what should be in the controller, as in a tablet (or web interface on PC).

bonze
2014-09-07, 05:28
Or a tablet , I'm happy with the tablet solution as it also solve the display issue :)

Is there currently any other solution besides a 'tablet' for use as a display?

Julf
2014-09-07, 05:33
Is there currently any other solution besides a 'tablet' for use as a display?

Pretty much anything that runs java (and thus jivelite).

castalla
2014-09-07, 05:38
Is there currently any other solution besides a 'tablet' for use as a display?

If you use Windows, install Squeezeplay - use it as a controller

Mnyb
2014-09-07, 05:38
Is there currently any other solution besides a 'tablet' for use as a display?

Probably among some of the DIY users here , seen treads about hooking up something to some of the DIY players pi or wand board or whatnot ? I actually think there is an interface that could go out on the hdmi of such devices so you could use your TV .

In my case my 65 inch plasma would solve all visibility problems :) I could probably see the playlist from my parking spot outside my apartment , in short I think using the TV is a bit to big but some people like this .

But I have not investigated exactly what do to achieve this .

I realise that in a familly you migth have to glue the tablet too the wall or coffe table in the room with the hifi to have it stay there and not being hijacked for other purposes :)

bonze
2014-09-07, 05:52
Probably among some of the DIY users here , seen treads about hooking up something to some of the DIY players pi or wand board or whatnot ?
OK, I haven't been following any of the threads for a while.
When I did they assumed that everyone was going to be using a smartphone as a controller.
Which is not always appropriate.

Maybe I should take another look.

StridingEdge
2014-09-07, 07:54
I've tried the smartphone route but it's just too small again.

Is there a way of using a SmartTV?

riffer
2014-09-07, 08:36
Any computer on the network can access LMS through a web browser, so any old computer/laptop etc can be used to control the touch.

StridingEdge
2014-09-07, 11:01
OK - got that. I have just configured both TVs to access the Media Server. So, that's some progress with my setup. At least I can see what's playing, instead of having to stand up and walk over to the screen every time a track comes on that I don't recognise. I don't know why it didn't occur to me before :)

Man in a van
2014-09-07, 13:12
Possibly interesting but doesn't look like anything near the finished article and not what I'm looking for.

I suppose what I really want is something very similar to the Touch but with a screen twice the size and a remote you don't need a teenager with a magnifying glass to use (to see the tiny buttons and even tinier writing)


Let's see what's my needs are ...
1. Large screen that displays album artwork
2. Large remote with well laid out buttons. The Touch fails miserably on all counts - the buttons are not laid out well, they are too small and the writing can only be seen with assistance - all presumably because they insisted on making it the same size as the Touch so that they would fit into the same outer box
3. Streaming FLAC and other lossless files from a PC via wireless and to be able to handle a large library
4. Stream radio from the internet
5. Handle extensive tagging
6. Best audio quality, without the need to add external DAC

A multi-format player in the same box would be a plus (but that's probably going to be a different task entirely) - the reason for this is that I have no SACD or DVD-A playback capabilities at the moment and will need it soon. My Meridian CD player is now 15 plus years old and has already had a replacement laser, for which there are now no replacements available. Therefore, I am envisaging a new player will soon be needed and that needs to play the aforementioned disc types. And, of course, it needs to be of a similar quality to that of the Meridian - which rules out a lot of devices that one can find on, for example, Amazon. That might seem restrictive as a place to look for new Hi-Fi but as far as I can tell there are only two Hi-Fi stores of any note in Kent.

I'm waffling..........


For your disc playing requirements I suggest the Oppo player thingy.

This also has an input for usb (I don't know the playback limitations with regard to bits).

If you were to source an O2 Joggler this will connect directly to the Oppo and give the larger than a Touch screen that may be sufficient for your needs.

For just streaming I suggest a 'pi with piCorePlayer into iQaudio) dac, this can be controlled by the Joggler running SqueezePlay.

LMS can be installed on the Joggler or elsewhere (plenty of server options)

As for a, 'one player does it all', I don't know if that exists, and if it does, how much of a Curate's egg it might be.

Enjoy your search.

atb

Ronnie

stvjfp1
2014-09-07, 15:18
Possibly interesting but doesn't look like anything near the finished article and not what I'm looking for.

I suppose what I really want is something very similar to the Touch but with a screen twice the size and a remote you don't need a teenager with a magnifying glass to use (to see the tiny buttons and even tinier writing)


Let's see what's my needs are ...
1. Large screen that displays album artwork
2. Large remote with well laid out buttons. The Touch fails miserably on all counts - the buttons are not laid out well, they are too small and the writing can only be seen with assistance - all presumably because they insisted on making it the same size as the Touch so that they would fit into the same outer box
3. Streaming FLAC and other lossless files from a PC via wireless and to be able to handle a large library
4. Stream radio from the internet
5. Handle extensive tagging
6. Best audio quality, without the need to add external DAC

A multi-format player in the same box would be a plus (but that's probably going to be a different task entirely) - the reason for this is that I have no SACD or DVD-A playback capabilities at the moment and will need it soon. My Meridian CD player is now 15 plus years old and has already had a replacement laser, for which there are now no replacements available. Therefore, I am envisaging a new player will soon be needed and that needs to play the aforementioned disc types. And, of course, it needs to be of a similar quality to that of the Meridian - which rules out a lot of devices that one can find on, for example, Amazon. That might seem restrictive as a place to look for new Hi-Fi but as far as I can tell there are only two Hi-Fi stores of any note in Kent.

I'm waffling..........

High price, but looks good:

http://www.bladelius.com/products/bladelius/mimer/

GeeJay
2014-09-07, 19:37
They sell a device they call the id. Its basically an intel nuc with their Linux version of jrmc preinstalled and setup so it works out of the box.

See:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89084.0

You can't sync multiple devices, last I read on one of the JRiver threads.

StridingEdge
2014-09-08, 00:46
High price, but looks good:

http://www.bladelius.com/products/bladelius/mimer/Strewth - high price is right!

atrocity
2014-09-08, 07:23
Is there currently any other solution besides a 'tablet' for use as a display?

I have a monitor hooked up to a Wandboard.