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Nick_G
2014-06-10, 12:03
Hi all.

It's been a while since I've been on here, but was wondering, if, in the intervening time there had been an applet developed that can get my SBT to play streams with the "m3u8" extension. There's a few radio stations out there that are using this format and it is frustrating that I can't listen to them on the SBT. I listen via MSB rather than the local server.

I have no background in scripting or programming so a non-technical fix would be very handy, if there's one out there. Does anyone know of any?

Thanks and regards,
Nick

jimbobvfr400
2014-06-10, 23:29
An m3u8 file is a playlist file, the actual URL will be in the file.

Do you have an example file that you are having an issue with? Have you tried the same file but using LMS locally? You may find LMS will transcode if it's actually streaming in a format the SBT can't play.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Nick_G
2014-06-11, 10:53
An m3u8 file is a playlist file, the actual URL will be in the file.

Do you have an example file that you are having an issue with? Have you tried the same file but using LMS locally? You may find LMS will transcode if it's actually streaming in a format the SBT can't play.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Thanks for that.

Here's one example that plays fine on VLC (it's an AAC stream) but comes up with a no items in playlist error on the SBT:

http://hprt.flashcloud.mediacdn.com/hprt/proto/chunklist_w150675973.m3u8

There's a couple of others but that'll do to start with.

Regards,
Nick

bpa
2014-06-11, 12:58
There is no full URL inside the m3u8 playlist but it generates a file which concatenated with playlist URL - gives an URL that can be played. But AFAICT it can only be "played once" and then it becomes invalid - LMS looks at an URL twice (initially to check the format and then secondly to tell player to play it) and I think this is breaking the URL as URL is invalid on the second attempt.

What a weird setup and some sort of lame attempt at protection or preventing something which I can't figure out.

I think another problem is that it is not streamed http/AAC but in fact it is a MPEG4 Podcast with an AAC audio component and possibly a dash of Apple proprietary streaming (its MIME is application/vnd.apple.mpegurl) . MPEG4 podcast need a LMS as they are not v. streaming friendly - they really expect to be downloaded where the play can then seek up and down the file to find headers. My guess I think VLC downloads most fo the file before it starts

Nick_G
2014-06-12, 11:37
There is no full URL inside the m3u8 playlist but it generates a file which concatenated with playlist URL - gives an URL that can be played. But AFAICT it can only be "played once" and then it becomes invalid - LMS looks at an URL twice (initially to check the format and then secondly to tell player to play it) and I think this is breaking the URL as URL is invalid on the second attempt.

What a weird setup and some sort of lame attempt at protection or preventing something which I can't figure out.

I think another problem is that it is not streamed http/AAC but in fact it is a MPEG4 Podcast with an AAC audio component and possibly a dash of Apple proprietary streaming (its MIME is application/vnd.apple.mpegurl) . MPEG4 podcast need a LMS as they are not v. streaming friendly - they really expect to be downloaded where the play can then seek up and down the file to find headers. My guess I think VLC downloads most fo the file before it starts

Thanks for the info. So does that mean that this stream would trip up all internet radio devices? It's a shame because it's a good quality stream that I would like to be able to hear on the hi-fi system.

Here's another one, one of the stations of the Turkish Public broadcaster TRT:

http://sol.trtcdn.com/rd/trtfm/playlist.m3u8

Is this the same sort of problem?

I find listening to other countries PSB services very interesting and it's a pity that they use odd implementations that trip up devices like the Squeezebox.

Regards,
Nick

bpa
2014-06-12, 12:26
Thanks for the info. So does that mean that this stream would trip up all internet radio devices?

Quite possibly - you'd need to check if device can handle MPEG4 podcast. MPEG4 podcasts are generally aimed at PC playback and frequently have a "video" content even if it is just a still graphic or photo - this often upsets audio playback devices.

Is it a podcast or some sort of "playback"/ "catchup" facility ?



Is this the same sort of problem?
It used the exact same weird system. I suspect it is some sort of homegrown (possibly regional) solution.


I find listening to other countries PSB services very interesting and it's a pity that they use odd implementations that trip up devices like the Squeezebox.
Funny, I find that a lot of PBS service can be played on Squeezebox - except for those using Flash.
What services cause problems ?

edit:

The mime type indicates that the server is an Apple based and seems to be setup to stream video (probably on iPhones/iPads) . See
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/networkinginternet/conceptual/streamingmediaguide/DeployingHTTPLiveStreaming/DeployingHTTPLiveStreaming.html

Nick_G
2014-06-13, 09:40
Yes I agree most PSBs can be played on the Squeezebox, but there are some other examples I can think of:

All Belarus national PSB streams are WMA 128k but can't be played on the Squeezebox e.g. http://www.tvr.by/liveair/radius.asx (Radius FM)

All the Chinese PSB networks do the same thing; they are also WMA streams e.g. mms://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx (88.7 Hit FM)

A few countries have their best quality streams only available via a flash-based player e.g. if you go to Polskie Radio's website and play the streams from there it goes to an AAC+ 128k stream (e.g. http://player.polskieradio.pl/-3) but I can't extract any urls that are playable on the Squeezebox. There are WMA alternatives but these aren't as high quality.

Regards,
Nick

bpa
2014-06-13, 10:14
All Belarus national PSB streams are WMA 128k but can't be played on the Squeezebox e.g. http://www.tvr.by/liveair/radius.asx (Radius FM)

All the Chinese PSB networks do the same thing; they are also WMA streams e.g. mms://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx (88.7 Hit FM)

MMS is from the steam age of the internet. MMS is a format that has not been supported by Microsoft since 2007. All these broadcaster have to do is tick a check box in their server s/w config and they will have http - but my guess they do not want to touch it. If you have a local LMS srerver - then LMS can transcode and play it.



A few countries have their best quality streams only available via a flash-based player e.g. if you go to Polskie Radio's website and play the streams from there it goes to an AAC+ 128k stream (e.g. http://player.polskieradio.pl/-3[q) but I can't extract any urls that are playable on the Squeezebox. There are WMA alternatives but these aren't as high quality.

Flash based audio or ones which hide http behind a flash player are going away slowly because Flash is not being supported on iOS and Android.

Nick_G
2014-06-13, 11:26
MMS is from the steam age of the internet. MMS is a format that has not been supported by Microsoft since 2007. All these broadcaster have to do is tick a check box in their server s/w config and they will have http - but my guess they do not want to touch it. If you have a local LMS srerver - then LMS can transcode and play it.




Flash based audio or ones which hide http behind a flash player are going away slowly because Flash is not being supported on iOS and Android.

Thanks. The funny thing is a lot of mms streams play with no problems on the Squeezebox but there's something about those Chinese streams that trips it up. I don't know if the Belarus streams fail for the same reason (although these are http-based).

Regards,
Nick

fuzzyT
2014-06-13, 11:31
Many content providers using Flash-based players will go to great
lengths to hide the actual stream URLs (using a Flash-based player being
the first length).

While it can be difficult-to-impossible to extract the stream from
player markup and scripts, it's generally possible to figure it out
using a network sniffer. You can use general purpose tools for this, or
something more specialized such as "URL Snooper".

If the provider is using an odd protocol or codec, the stream may not
ultimately be usable, but at least you'll know whether or not that's the
case.

bpa
2014-06-13, 12:10
Thanks. The funny thing is a lot of mms streams play with no problems on the Squeezebox but there's something about those Chinese streams that trips it up. I don't know if the Belarus streams fail for the same reason (although these are http-based).

Since mms got deprecated by Microsoft, many stations enabled the http stream but kept the mms URL. Squeezebox knows this and so with any mms port 1755 stream, squeezebox will in fact trying playing the same address but with http on port 80.
The belarus stream is mms on 1755 and so will not play on SB.

The station mms://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx may play OK if you use http://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx

The station does not have a WMA extemnsion (i.e.ASX not WSX) and its mime type is Video ( video/x-ms-asf ) which is not supported by LMS and LMS may be confused about how to play it (i.e unknown extension, unsupported mime and mms)

Nick_G
2014-06-13, 13:03
Since mms got deprecated by Microsoft, many stations enabled the http stream but kept the mms URL. Squeezebox knows this and so with any mms port 1755 stream, squeezebox will in fact trying playing the same address but with http on port 80.
The belarus stream is mms on 1755 and so will not play on SB.

The station mms://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx may play OK if you use http://live.hitfm.cn/fm887.wsx

The station does not have a WMA extemnsion (i.e.ASX not WSX) and its mime type is Video ( video/x-ms-asf ) which is not supported by LMS and LMS may be confused about how to play it (i.e unknown extension, unsupported mime and mms)

Thanks for this - it's very useful.

I have managed to get 3 of the Chinese streams to play (including Hit FM) but the other 128k WMA ones don't work, presumably for the same reason as the Belarus stream. They all start with an mms address.

Regards,
Nick