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View Full Version : AlienBBC v0.11 Released



Jules Taplin
2004-11-27, 13:24
Hi folks.

AlienBBC v0.11 is now available for download at the usual place
(http://www.mrtickle.org/alienbbc.html).

For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC Radio
content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on Linux
platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X platforms (although
it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're still working on getting it
to operate on Windows platforms.

For everybody that's already running it, the new version has the
following changes:

* Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
'Internet Radio' menu now.
* The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
means that streams can be paused indefinately.
* Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
* Fixed link to spacer gif in Web Interface.
* BBC Radio 2 A to Z Parser. Contains a few more shows not seen on the
'Listen Again' menu.
* Added new section for ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
content. Very limited compared to BBC Content, though.
* The transcoder proxy will now try a couple of paths to find a version
of lame. Should save a bunch of people editing it every version ;)

So... go grab it. As always... if you run into trouble... send me a
note. The feedback address is at the bottom of pretty much every webpage
on the site.


Best Regards,


Jules

Bill Burns
2004-11-27, 19:01
Jules Taplin wrote:

> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC Radio
> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on Linux
> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X platforms (although
> it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're still working on getting it
> to operate on Windows platforms.

Is the Windows version an active part of the project? I'd really like
to have AlienBBC, and I have to decide whether to wait for the Windows
version or set up a Linux box. Any idea on the timeframe for Windows?

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
mailto:billb (AT) ftldesign (DOT) com

Scott Culverhouse
2004-11-28, 03:51
Jules,

Nice work, this app is getting better and better.

Two question/points:-

1) On the Listen again - Radio 1, I am seeing names followed by
colons I guess they should be followed by Mon, Tue etc etc. But I am
seeing MON, TUE etc as seperate entries.

2) What url are these passed from because westwood is not listed.

Scott


On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:24:23 +0000
Jules Taplin wrote:

> Hi folks.
>
> AlienBBC v0.11 is now available for download at the usual place
> (http://www.mrtickle.org/alienbbc.html).
>
> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC Radio
> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on Linux
> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X platforms (although
> it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're still working on getting it
> to operate on Windows platforms.
>
> For everybody that's already running it, the new version has the
> following changes:
>
> * Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
> 'Internet Radio' menu now.
> * The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
> means that streams can be paused indefinately.
> * Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
> * Fixed link to spacer gif in Web Interface.
> * BBC Radio 2 A to Z Parser. Contains a few more shows not seen on the
> 'Listen Again' menu.
> * Added new section for ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> content. Very limited compared to BBC Content, though.
> * The transcoder proxy will now try a couple of paths to find a version
> of lame. Should save a bunch of people editing it every version ;)
>
> So... go grab it. As always... if you run into trouble... send me a
> note. The feedback address is at the bottom of pretty much every webpage
> on the site.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Jules
>

Jules Taplin
2004-11-28, 05:22
Hi Bill.

It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well as
substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this will move
the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not something that's
entirely in our control.

When it comes down to it, Window's stream handling is just plain
inferior, and that's the root cause of the problem :(

So... I think we'll eventually get there... but it won't necessarily be
fast. You also need to bear in mind that neither myself or Craig really
have any intention of USING a Windows port, so the 'scratch your itch'
theory of Open Source software development just isn't very strong in
this case ;)



-- Jules

Bill Burns wrote:

> Jules Taplin wrote:
>
>> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
>> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC Radio
>> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on Linux
>> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X platforms
>> (although it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're still working on
>> getting it to operate on Windows platforms.
>
>
> Is the Windows version an active part of the project? I'd really like
> to have AlienBBC, and I have to decide whether to wait for the Windows
> version or set up a Linux box. Any idea on the timeframe for Windows?
>

Jules Taplin
2004-11-28, 05:42
Hi Scott.

Yes... the Mon, Tue, etc stuff is annoying. But hard to know how to
parse better.

The Listen Again pages are all parsed from the output of the 'BBC Radio
Player'. So... the Radio 1 content comes from this page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio1_promo.shtml

It doesn't list 'westwood'.

There is also another page for Radio 1 content -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/listen/index.shtml

That appears to be loosely similar, but with some additional content.
Maybe a parser for that would sort it out. Personally, though, I've had
a big problem with Radio 1 since Matthew Bannister came in and purged
all of the good programming from it in the early 90's, so I guess I was
never mentally that keen to encourage them *grin*.

I'll stick a specific Radio 1 Parser on the to-do list.

-- Jules

Scott Culverhouse wrote:

>Jules,
>
>Nice work, this app is getting better and better.
>
>Two question/points:-
>
> 1) On the Listen again - Radio 1, I am seeing names followed by
>colons I guess they should be followed by Mon, Tue etc etc. But I am
>seeing MON, TUE etc as seperate entries.
>
> 2) What url are these passed from because westwood is not listed.
>
>Scott
>
>
>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:24:23 +0000
>Jules Taplin wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi folks.
>>
>>AlienBBC v0.11 is now available for download at the usual place
>>(http://www.mrtickle.org/alienbbc.html).
>>
>>For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
>>Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC Radio
>>content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on Linux
>>platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X platforms (although
>>it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're still working on getting it
>>to operate on Windows platforms.
>>
>>For everybody that's already running it, the new version has the
>>following changes:
>>
>>* Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
>>'Internet Radio' menu now.
>>* The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
>>means that streams can be paused indefinately.
>>* Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
>>* Fixed link to spacer gif in Web Interface.
>>* BBC Radio 2 A to Z Parser. Contains a few more shows not seen on the
>>'Listen Again' menu.
>>* Added new section for ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
>>content. Very limited compared to BBC Content, though.
>>* The transcoder proxy will now try a couple of paths to find a version
>>of lame. Should save a bunch of people editing it every version ;)
>>
>>So... go grab it. As always... if you run into trouble... send me a
>>note. The feedback address is at the bottom of pretty much every webpage
>>on the site.
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>
>>Jules
>>

John Gorst
2004-11-28, 06:53
Jules Taplin wrote:

> * Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
> 'Internet Radio' menu now.

A lot more user friendly!

> * The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
> means that streams can be paused indefinately.

What used to happen before? I just went back to the 0.10 release and I
seemed to be able to pause (although I only tried for a few seconds)

> * Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.

Definetly uses less when idle. Not sure about when active yet.

The only problem with this release if that if I set it not to use lame
it produces white noise on my both machines which run softsqueeze
(havent got a squeezebox of my own to try it with yet - awaiting
christmas for that!). The cpu useage of transcoder_proxy also shoots up
to about 80%

I want to be able to stream wav for two reasons:
(1) my machine doesn handle transcoding into mp3 very well (only a celeron)
(2) converting into mp3 only makes the poor bbc sound quality even worse!

Any ideas what could be causing this? In 0.10 it works fine (I have
tried reverting back)

Mandrake 10, mplayer, softsqueeze (linux and windows), latest slimserver
nightly

Bill Burns
2004-11-28, 08:13
Jules Taplin wrote:

> It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
> slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well
> as substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this
> will move the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not
> something that's entirely in our control.

Jules: Thanks for your candour - I'll start setting up a Linux box :-)

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
mailto:billb (AT) ftldesign (DOT) com

Jules Taplin
2004-11-28, 10:44
Before Craig added the buffering fixes... data would be dropped once
slimserver filled it's internal buffers. They were good for about a
minute in mp3 mode.

Erm. Right. Don't know about the white noise. I don't think I've made
any changes that should make a difference to the non-lame path. Curious.
I take it that if you leave it at AlienBBC 0.11, and just use the 0.10
transcoder, it works OK for you?

-- Jules




John Gorst wrote:

> Jules Taplin wrote:
>
>> * Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
>> 'Internet Radio' menu now.
>
>
> A lot more user friendly!
>
>> * The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
>> means that streams can be paused indefinately.
>
>
> What used to happen before? I just went back to the 0.10 release and I
> seemed to be able to pause (although I only tried for a few seconds)
>
>> * Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
>
>
> Definetly uses less when idle. Not sure about when active yet.
>
> The only problem with this release if that if I set it not to use lame
> it produces white noise on my both machines which run softsqueeze
> (havent got a squeezebox of my own to try it with yet - awaiting
> christmas for that!). The cpu useage of transcoder_proxy also shoots
> up to about 80%
>
> I want to be able to stream wav for two reasons:
> (1) my machine doesn handle transcoding into mp3 very well (only a
> celeron)
> (2) converting into mp3 only makes the poor bbc sound quality even worse!
>
> Any ideas what could be causing this? In 0.10 it works fine (I have
> tried reverting back)
>
> Mandrake 10, mplayer, softsqueeze (linux and windows), latest
> slimserver nightly
>
>

Jules Taplin
2004-11-28, 10:45
No problem Bill.

I've no doubt we'll get there in the end... but I don't really have a
firm idea of when. ;)


-- Jules


Bill Burns wrote:

> Jules Taplin wrote:
>
>> It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
>> slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well
>> as substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this
>> will move the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not
>> something that's entirely in our control.
>
>
> Jules: Thanks for your candour - I'll start setting up a Linux box :-)
>

kdf
2004-11-28, 12:49
Quoting Jules Taplin <slim-discuss (AT) ourhouse (DOT) org.uk>:

> Erm. Right. Don't know about the white noise. I don't think I've made
> any changes that should make a difference to the non-lame path. Curious.
> I take it that if you leave it at AlienBBC 0.11, and just use the 0.10
> transcoder, it works OK for you?
>
White noise is often a sign of a wrong endian. Since the squeezebox is designed
to handled AIFF and WAV PCM input, it has to decide on big or little ending
when it starts playing. AlienBBC might have to supply the server with the
right info, somehow.
-kdf

Jules Taplin
2004-11-28, 14:41
Hmmm. Curious. Even more curious is the fact that it used to work, and
now alledgedly doesn't.

-- Jules


kdf wrote:

>Quoting Jules Taplin <slim-discuss (AT) ourhouse (DOT) org.uk>:
>
>
>
>>Erm. Right. Don't know about the white noise. I don't think I've made
>>any changes that should make a difference to the non-lame path. Curious.
>>I take it that if you leave it at AlienBBC 0.11, and just use the 0.10
>>transcoder, it works OK for you?
>>
>>
>>
>White noise is often a sign of a wrong endian. Since the squeezebox is designed
>to handled AIFF and WAV PCM input, it has to decide on big or little ending
>when it starts playing. AlienBBC might have to supply the server with the
>right info, somehow.
>-kdf
>

Neil Sleightholm
2004-11-28, 15:30
I am very interest in a Windows version. Are there any areas of
investigation that you could farm out to Windows developers? As a
predominantly Windows developer I would be interested in taking this on
as this is only thing missing from my home audio system and I would be
using it! (Well to be truthful my wife would to get her get daily
Archers fix!)

Neil

Jules Taplin wrote:

> Hi Bill.
>
> It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
> slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well
> as substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this
> will move the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not
> something that's entirely in our control.
>
> When it comes down to it, Window's stream handling is just plain
> inferior, and that's the root cause of the problem :(
>
> So... I think we'll eventually get there... but it won't necessarily
> be fast. You also need to bear in mind that neither myself or Craig
> really have any intention of USING a Windows port, so the 'scratch
> your itch' theory of Open Source software development just isn't very
> strong in this case ;)
>
>
>
> -- Jules
>
> Bill Burns wrote:
>
> > Jules Taplin wrote:
> >
> >> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
> >> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC
> Radio >> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on
> Linux >> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X
> platforms >> (although it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're
> still working on >> getting it to operate on Windows platforms.
> >
> >
> > Is the Windows version an active part of the project? I'd really
> > like to have AlienBBC, and I have to decide whether to wait for the
> > Windows version or set up a Linux box. Any idea on the timeframe
> > for Windows?
> >

Bill Burns
2004-11-28, 16:28
Neil Sleightholm wrote:
> I am very interest in a Windows version. Are there any areas of
> investigation that you could farm out to Windows developers? As a
> predominantly Windows developer I would be interested in taking this on
> as this is only thing missing from my home audio system and I would be
> using it! (Well to be truthful my wife would to get her get daily
> Archers fix!)

I see from a message just posted on the Developers list that Adrian has
AlienBBC working on Windows:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.music.equipment.slimdevices.devel/4501/

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
mailto:billb (AT) ftldesign (DOT) com

Steve Bernard, Jr
2004-11-28, 18:33
My immediate thought as far as AlienBBC is that there must be better
ways to get RealAudio to the Squeezebox from a Windows server than
using a port of mplayer or xine under Cygwin or whatever.

Lots of people use the whole Rube Goldberg contraption of using the
Tara plugin for Winamp (
http://www.musiclivesonline.com/software/watara.html ) and then using
Winamp to broadcast a Shoutcast stream. Seems to me that some
middlemen could be cut out by writing a standalone program that could
use the Tara plugin (or the Real codecs in some other way) to decode
the Realaudio and send it to the STDOUT in the same way wmadec and
lame and such do.

Now, I did a touch of research on this and I know that there people
out there who have written Windows apps that use Winamp plugins (CDEX
can use them, for example). I found a site with some sample code for
a DLL in VC++ and an app in VB for using Winamp input plugins to
decode files: http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/vbMedia/Audio/Using_WinAmp_Plugins/article.asp

Unfortunately, I downloaded this code example to see if it would work
with Tara, and I can't the code to work at all, with any
configurations of plugins. I emailed the guy who wrote it and haven't
heard back (this was actually a couple weeks ago), so I guess I have
nothing but a beautiful dream so far.

I'm really only able to code a teeny bit in VB (or any other
language), but it seems like much of the heavy lifting is done already
as far as an input plugin that handles up-to-date Real codecs, and
some examples of open-source software that should theoretically be
able to use that input to do what we want.

I've crossposted this to the developers list, since there's been
recent discussion of an mplayer version of Windows that should work
for AlienBBC. That may make this idea pointless where AlienBBC is
specifically concerned, but I think there's still a ton of mileage in
the idea of a small program that can use Winamp input plugins to
decode audio to the STDOUT (this could work with other input plugins
like Monkey's Audio or MP3Pro or whatever).

Someone let me know if a) this is a stupid idea, b) you know if
there's already a similar project to this, or c) you're an actually
talented Windows developer who'd like to work with me to try this out.

-Steve

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:30:31 +0000 (UTC), Neil Sleightholm
<neil (AT) x2systems (DOT) com> wrote:
> I am very interest in a Windows version. Are there any areas of
> investigation that you could farm out to Windows developers? As a
> predominantly Windows developer I would be interested in taking this on
> as this is only thing missing from my home audio system and I would be
> using it! (Well to be truthful my wife would to get her get daily
> Archers fix!)
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> Jules Taplin wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill.
> >
> > It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
> > slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well
> > as substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this
> > will move the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not
> > something that's entirely in our control.
> >
> > When it comes down to it, Window's stream handling is just plain
> > inferior, and that's the root cause of the problem :(
> >
> > So... I think we'll eventually get there... but it won't necessarily
> > be fast. You also need to bear in mind that neither myself or Craig
> > really have any intention of USING a Windows port, so the 'scratch
> > your itch' theory of Open Source software development just isn't very
> > strong in this case ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Jules
> >
> > Bill Burns wrote:
> >
> > > Jules Taplin wrote:
> > >
> > >> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
> > >> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC
> > Radio >> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on
> > Linux >> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X
> > platforms >> (although it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're
> > still working on >> getting it to operate on Windows platforms.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is the Windows version an active part of the project? I'd really
> > > like to have AlienBBC, and I have to decide whether to wait for the
> > > Windows version or set up a Linux box. Any idea on the timeframe
> > > for Windows?
> > >
>
>

Robin Bowes
2004-11-29, 05:29
Steve Bernard, Jr wrote:
> My immediate thought as far as AlienBBC is that there must be better
> ways to get RealAudio to the Squeezebox from a Windows server than
> using a port of mplayer or xine under Cygwin or whatever.

You're probably right.

I think the "right" way to go with Windows users would be to hook into
Windows Media Connect
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/devices/wmconnect/default.aspx).

From what I can gather from how the technology works this would require
a small program to be written that receives and responds to WMC, streams
audio to the Squeezebox, and drives the Squeezebox display.

This would be a lot easier to do if the design of Slimserver were
modularised, i.e. audio streamer, playlist management, web server,
display driver all running as separate processes.

I have no need for this but I can see that this approach would simplify
things for Windows users.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Arnon Meshoulam
2004-11-29, 14:11
Steve,

Bass is another option. http://www.un4seen.com/ Using this library the
WMAstream was written, and work rather effectively on Windows. A bit of
work on this should allow it to handle rpm via the Tara plugin you
mentioned.

Arnon


Steve Bernard, Jr wrote:

> My immediate thought as far as AlienBBC is that there must be better
> ways to get RealAudio to the Squeezebox from a Windows server than
> using a port of mplayer or xine under Cygwin or whatever.
>
> Lots of people use the whole Rube Goldberg contraption of using the
> Tara plugin for Winamp (
> http://www.musiclivesonline.com/software/watara.html ) and then using
> Winamp to broadcast a Shoutcast stream. Seems to me that some
> middlemen could be cut out by writing a standalone program that could
> use the Tara plugin (or the Real codecs in some other way) to decode
> the Realaudio and send it to the STDOUT in the same way wmadec and
> lame and such do.
>
> Now, I did a touch of research on this and I know that there people
> out there who have written Windows apps that use Winamp plugins (CDEX
> can use them, for example). I found a site with some sample code for
> a DLL in VC++ and an app in VB for using Winamp input plugins to
> decode files:
> http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/vbMedia/Audio/Using_WinAmp_Plugins/article.asp
>
>
> Unfortunately, I downloaded this code example to see if it would work
> with Tara, and I can't the code to work at all, with any
> configurations of plugins. I emailed the guy who wrote it and haven't
> heard back (this was actually a couple weeks ago), so I guess I have
> nothing but a beautiful dream so far.
>
> I'm really only able to code a teeny bit in VB (or any other
> language), but it seems like much of the heavy lifting is done already
> as far as an input plugin that handles up-to-date Real codecs, and
> some examples of open-source software that should theoretically be
> able to use that input to do what we want.
>
> I've crossposted this to the developers list, since there's been
> recent discussion of an mplayer version of Windows that should work
> for AlienBBC. That may make this idea pointless where AlienBBC is
> specifically concerned, but I think there's still a ton of mileage in
> the idea of a small program that can use Winamp input plugins to
> decode audio to the STDOUT (this could work with other input plugins
> like Monkey's Audio or MP3Pro or whatever).
>
> Someone let me know if a) this is a stupid idea, b) you know if
> there's already a similar project to this, or c) you're an actually
> talented Windows developer who'd like to work with me to try this out.
>
> -Steve
>
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:30:31 +0000 (UTC), Neil Sleightholm
> <neil (AT) x2systems (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>> I am very interest in a Windows version. Are there any areas of
>> investigation that you could farm out to Windows developers? As a
>> predominantly Windows developer I would be interested in taking this on
>> as this is only thing missing from my home audio system and I would be
>> using it! (Well to be truthful my wife would to get her get daily
>> Archers fix!)
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> Jules Taplin wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Bill.
>> >
>> > It's complicated. It's looking like a Windows version will require
>> > slimserver changes, changes to the mplayer codebase itself, as well
>> > as substantial changes to AlienBBC. Whilst it's looking like this
>> > will move the design forward quite a long way, it's clearly not
>> > something that's entirely in our control.
>> >
>> > When it comes down to it, Window's stream handling is just plain
>> > inferior, and that's the root cause of the problem :(
>> >
>> > So... I think we'll eventually get there... but it won't necessarily
>> > be fast. You also need to bear in mind that neither myself or Craig
>> > really have any intention of USING a Windows port, so the 'scratch
>> > your itch' theory of Open Source software development just isn't very
>> > strong in this case ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Jules
>> >
>> > Bill Burns wrote:
>> >
>> > > Jules Taplin wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> For those of you who don't already know, AlienBBC is a plugin for
>> > >> Slimserver that allows streaming of pretty much all of the BBC
>> > Radio >> content, as well as a few other bits and pieces. It runs on
>> > Linux >> platforms, has been massaged into running on MacOS/X
>> > platforms >> (although it's still a bit of a struggle), and we're
>> > still working on >> getting it to operate on Windows platforms.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Is the Windows version an active part of the project? I'd really
>> > > like to have AlienBBC, and I have to decide whether to wait for the
>> > > Windows version or set up a Linux box. Any idea on the timeframe
>> > > for Windows?
>> > >
>>
>>

John Gorst
2004-11-29, 15:41
Jules Taplin wrote:
> Before Craig added the buffering fixes... data would be dropped once
> slimserver filled it's internal buffers. They were good for about a
> minute in mp3 mode.
>
> Erm. Right. Don't know about the white noise. I don't think I've made
> any changes that should make a difference to the non-lame path. Curious.
> I take it that if you leave it at AlienBBC 0.11, and just use the 0.10
> transcoder, it works OK for you?

Using the plugin from 0.11 and the transcoder works fine streaming wav -
odd!

BTW increasing mplayers cache from 32 to 64 appears to produce marked
reduction (almost elimination) of the skipping over my 300k broadband
connection. Perhaps this should be a more readily changed user setting.

Cheers

> -- Jules
>
>
>
>
> John Gorst wrote:
>
>> Jules Taplin wrote:
>>
>>> * Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
>>> 'Internet Radio' menu now.
>>
>>
>>
>> A lot more user friendly!
>>
>>> * The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it. This
>>> means that streams can be paused indefinately.
>>
>>
>>
>> What used to happen before? I just went back to the 0.10 release and I
>> seemed to be able to pause (although I only tried for a few seconds)
>>
>>> * Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
>>
>>
>>
>> Definetly uses less when idle. Not sure about when active yet.
>>
>> The only problem with this release if that if I set it not to use lame
>> it produces white noise on my both machines which run softsqueeze
>> (havent got a squeezebox of my own to try it with yet - awaiting
>> christmas for that!). The cpu useage of transcoder_proxy also shoots
>> up to about 80%
>>
>> I want to be able to stream wav for two reasons:
>> (1) my machine doesn handle transcoding into mp3 very well (only a
>> celeron)
>> (2) converting into mp3 only makes the poor bbc sound quality even worse!
>>
>> Any ideas what could be causing this? In 0.10 it works fine (I have
>> tried reverting back)
>>
>> Mandrake 10, mplayer, softsqueeze (linux and windows), latest
>> slimserver nightly
>>
>>

Jules Taplin
2004-11-29, 15:49
I'm sure that for Windows platforms, there's probably a better way to
deal with WMA streams. By the same token, there's probably a really
elegant MacOS/X solution for Quicktime media, or similar.

The touchstone for Slimserver, though, surely, is an acceptable
cross-platform solution for all. It's possible that a Windows-centric
solution would work well, and could even (potentially) be bodged using
Wine or similar to get to another i386 linux, but that locks Linux/PPC
people out (there's at least one Yellow Dog AlienBBC prospective user
out there). Equally... on all of those routes - where does that put the
Slimserver/Solaris users?

mplayer may not be perfect by any means, but at least there's a
committment to trying to make it work across platforms.

Oh... and yes... I'm accutely aware that there's a degree of hypocracy
with my advocating cross-platform good behaviour when my two significant
slimserver contributions have both been Linux only, but it's not
deliberate, honest... and I have been trying to improve them.


-- Jules

Robin Bowes wrote:

> Steve Bernard, Jr wrote:
>
>> My immediate thought as far as AlienBBC is that there must be better
>> ways to get RealAudio to the Squeezebox from a Windows server than
>> using a port of mplayer or xine under Cygwin or whatever.
>
>
> You're probably right.
>
> I think the "right" way to go with Windows users would be to hook into
> Windows Media Connect
> (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/devices/wmconnect/default.aspx).
>
>
> From what I can gather from how the technology works this would
> require a small program to be written that receives and responds to
> WMC, streams audio to the Squeezebox, and drives the Squeezebox display.
>
> This would be a lot easier to do if the design of Slimserver were
> modularised, i.e. audio streamer, playlist management, web server,
> display driver all running as separate processes.
>
> I have no need for this but I can see that this approach would
> simplify things for Windows users.
>
> R.

Jules Taplin
2004-11-29, 16:01
Hi John.

You might well be right.

However... things are moving on apace. Triode has a set of changes which
are in discussion on the developers list that basically eliminate the
requirement for the proxy altogether (slimserver invokes mplayer
directly), and which even allow the playing of RA streams on Windows
platforms (neat side-effect, that *grin*). The changes are kind of
pervasive, but it looks to me to be completely the way forward. That
would move things like cache settings out into the convert.conf file,
which would be much easier to deal with.


-- Jules



John Gorst wrote:

> Jules Taplin wrote:
>
>> Before Craig added the buffering fixes... data would be dropped once
>> slimserver filled it's internal buffers. They were good for about a
>> minute in mp3 mode.
>>
>> Erm. Right. Don't know about the white noise. I don't think I've made
>> any changes that should make a difference to the non-lame path.
>> Curious. I take it that if you leave it at AlienBBC 0.11, and just
>> use the 0.10 transcoder, it works OK for you?
>
>
> Using the plugin from 0.11 and the transcoder works fine streaming wav
> - odd!
>
> BTW increasing mplayers cache from 32 to 64 appears to produce marked
> reduction (almost elimination) of the skipping over my 300k broadband
> connection. Perhaps this should be a more readily changed user setting.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -- Jules
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Gorst wrote:
>>
>>> Jules Taplin wrote:
>>>
>>>> * Plugin now registers as a 'Radio' plugin. So it'll appear in the
>>>> 'Internet Radio' menu now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot more user friendly!
>>>
>>>> * The transcoder proxy now buffers data if it can't deliver it.
>>>> This means that streams can be paused indefinately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What used to happen before? I just went back to the 0.10 release and
>>> I seemed to be able to pause (although I only tried for a few seconds)
>>>
>>>> * Transcoder should consume less CPU, particularly when idle.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Definetly uses less when idle. Not sure about when active yet.
>>>
>>> The only problem with this release if that if I set it not to use
>>> lame it produces white noise on my both machines which run
>>> softsqueeze (havent got a squeezebox of my own to try it with yet -
>>> awaiting christmas for that!). The cpu useage of transcoder_proxy
>>> also shoots up to about 80%
>>>
>>> I want to be able to stream wav for two reasons:
>>> (1) my machine doesn handle transcoding into mp3 very well (only a
>>> celeron)
>>> (2) converting into mp3 only makes the poor bbc sound quality even
>>> worse!
>>>
>>> Any ideas what could be causing this? In 0.10 it works fine (I have
>>> tried reverting back)
>>>
>>> Mandrake 10, mplayer, softsqueeze (linux and windows), latest
>>> slimserver nightly
>>>
>>>