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View Full Version : Grrr.. Just when you think it's all going so well.....



donmacn
2013-11-25, 16:55
Hi there,
been on and posting more just recently in a fit of SB enthusiasm. Tonight it's all gone a bit pear-shaped, though I suspect it's not actually going to be an LMS or SB issue at the end of the day.

To start with I'd been listening to one of the players in the lounge, switched off to come through to the bedroom, and literally a minute or two later, tried to connect the player there (SB3). It wouldn't connect. It had been working just a couple of hours before, and had successfully done a WOL to the server, (which has been the positive achievement of the last couple of days). I tried to get it to connect several times and eventually power cycled and factory reset it. Still no joy, so I rebooted the PC and the router. At this point 5 other players disappeared leaving just one connected. I also think that the SSID might have changed with the router re-boot, as it shows up as default 'NETGEAR' in the windows network and sharing centre... (but.. The ipad still has the original SSID showing...?) The network is still working OK to some degree as the ipad was - and still is - connecting.

The player that's still connecting is a Boom - and prior to my harmonising all my kit with one SSID a few months back, it had been connecting to a 'Netgear' SSID - perhaps it had retained that in its settings somewhere and just cycled back to that? Also, one of the players, a Touch, which is ethernet connected via 'powerline extenders', doesn't show up on LMS; on Squeezepad; or the Logitech Squeezebox app, but it does show up on the netgear network map utility.

It might end up being a new router. Before I factory reset that to see if it makes any difference, I'll need to find all my ISP details and settings, but it's too late here tonight to start messing around with this, and I have an early flight.

I can see a couple of potential solutions if it's the router, including buying one that's less basic, and maybe with better range, to avoid me having to use the powerline adapters i currently have set up. Like others I suspect, the network was set up to do simple stuff, and as times have moved on, with more wifi & other devices, it's maybe getting a bit stretched. the router is a netgear DG834, probably about 5 or 6 years old.

To quite a degree, I feel that perhaps I'd be taking advantage a bit in asking for help for generic computer questions on a platform-specific forum. So can anyone recommend any good 'computer basic' forums where people deal with each other as adults? I'd love to get advice here, as it seems to me to be a valuable source of experience, but I'd quite understand if it was too far from the "core business" of the forum. Please don't take that the wrong way, as I do appreciate how helpful folk here are.

Thanks

Donald

JohnSwenson
2013-11-25, 17:25
When stuff like this happens to me about 80% of the time it is DHCP that is causing the problem. A player's lease runs out and the DHCP server doesn't renew the lease for some reason, so the player can't get any data, even though the actual network connection is still there.

I have had three routers that have problems with this, the DHCP server works fine after it is booted up, but over time it gets slower and slower and eventually it takes so long to respond to the request for a new lease that the player times out waiting for it.

In my system what made it work was every month shut the entire system down. Turn on the router, give it ten minutes to make sure it was up and nice and stable, then one by one turn on each device on the network (not just SB players, EVERYTHING on the network, computers printers, SB etc). This would usually keep it going well for the rest of the month. If you turn them all on at once it can overload the pitiful DHCP server.

I finally gave up and bought a small fanless low power computer and put pfSense software on it, which turns it into a fantastically good router, no more network problems!

I know we shouldn't have to deal with all the stupid network issues, but inexpensive residential network products are not always highly robust.

John S.

Roger66
2013-11-26, 03:27
Hi,

why don't you use fixed IPs ? Each device that I only use in my flat has a fixed IP. Mobile devices are configured by static DHCP. No probs with DHCP so far.

Regards Roger

pippin
2013-11-26, 03:33
I assume you did try to just restart the router first, right?

donmacn
2013-11-26, 07:18
thanks for the replies.

I've been reading up on DCHP, trying to get to grips with what that means. I'm afraid the 'fanless computer with a pfsense install' sounds a bit complicated or daunting. I'd also be happy to use static IP addresses if that was straightforward to implement. By their nature, the players are pretty static - connected to amps/speakers etc. The Boom players might move about the house, but never further afield.

On the question about restarting, I shutdown both PC and router at the same time. I then started up the PC (as I've mentioned elsewhere it's a PC that has been frequently shutdown and restarted. Once it was up and running, I restarted the router. Any mistake in this? If there is, then I guess it's 'common knowledge' that I unfortunately don't have.

I'll be switching it all back on when I get home in a couple of hours, and will see what the position is then.

Thanks again though.

pippin
2013-11-26, 07:25
You should definitely start the router first!

garym
2013-11-26, 07:41
You should definitely start the router first!

definitely! Also, I assign fixed IP to all my SB players (since they don't leave the house/network). And I mean true "fixed" IP addresses, not simply reserved IP addresses in router. I assign fixed IP addresses outside the range that the router hands out DHCP addresses. I use something like:

(this all assumes your router is 192.168.1.1; some are 192.168.0.1)

IP: 192.168.1.20 (the "20" can be anything above 1 and below where your DHCP starts in the router. mine start at .100)
subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1 (this is just your router IP address)
DNS: 192.168.1.1 (this can be your router IP address....one can also use the google DNS, which is: 8.8.8.8)

with older players, sb3, boom, receiver, one can easily setup fixed IPs using the menu. With TOUCH and RADIO, it is a bit harder. I simply temporarily turn OFF the DHCP in my router, then go through a factory setup with the TOUCH or RADIO or DUET CONTROLLER. It can't get an IP address via DHCP and then will fail and give you the option to manually enter IP address info (may have to scroll down a bit on menu screen to see this manual option once the automatic assignment fails). Once done, then turn DHCP in router back to "on"

jhe44
2013-11-26, 10:48
Hi,

why don't you use fixed IPs ? Each device that I only use in my flat has a fixed IP. Mobile devices are configured by static DHCP. No probs with DHCP so far.

Regards Roger

I have had similar problems and I will try giving my two SBoxes fixed IP addresses.

reinholdk
2013-11-26, 13:19
Setting static IP addresses in all SB devices is fine, but 'pinning' the IP addresses in the router's DHCP server might be easier to configure, depending on the router's UI (and on the router's reliability).

donmacn
2013-11-26, 13:28
You should definitely start the router first!

Fair enough. No argument, and I'll remember that for next time. Do you mind if I ask why?

So, been trying to get to grips with this for the last hour or so - thought I was getting somewhere, then it all just went pear-shaped again.

I logged into the router via a web utility and checked what settings I could.

Then I went round and tried to connect the players again. This seemed to be going well enough. I got an SB3 (wireless); the Touch (ethernet); and an SB1 (wireless via powerline extender) to connect.

Next up was an SB1 (powerline ethernet) and that wouldn't connect. Passed on that and tried the last one, a Boom (wireless) this wouldn't connect, despite finding the SSID after a factory reset. Took it upstairs next to the router, and while it will connect to the network, it won't find the server. I've had to manually enter the Server IP address, and it just gets stuck in an endless: "connecting". Now, without my doing anything, two of those players mentioned above have dropped of the LMS control panel (but still show as connected on the Netgear Genie utility! as does the Boom that's stuck in the 'connect' loop. (Edit - tried another factory reset of the Boom that's sitting next to me, and when I get to 'select music source' it says "No Squeezebox Server Found" - despite the fact that it's running, and able to play via two players.... It will connect and play music via mysqueezebox.com.

I've added the info below in case that helps pinpoint anything.

Finally - and I hope/suspect this might be significant, though I don't know why - in LMS, in the 'choose player' drop-down box at the top right of the screen, I was getting about 4 of the players to show, but there was a line drawn across the options, below that the system name was listed, and then the Touch. I clicked on the Touch and got a message: "This player is currently connected to MacNeill-PB - do you want to connect it to this LMS?" Selected 'yes', and now it appears above the line, but all the other players are gone....

Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.3 - 1375965195 @ Mon Aug 12 11:14:33 CUT 2013
Hostname: MacNeill-PB
Server IP Address: 192.168.0.8
Server HTTP Port Number: 9000
Operating system: Windows 7 - EN - cp1252
Platform Architecture: 8664
Perl Version: 5.14.1 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
Total Players Recognized: 2

Library Statistics (deleted for space reasons

Player Information
Information on all identified devices connected to Logitech Media Server

Garage SB2
Player Model: Squeezebox
Firmware: 40
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.8
Player MAC Address:
Wireless Signal Strength: 50%

Squeezebox Touch
Player Model: Squeezebox Touch
Firmware: 7.7.3-r16662
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.5
Player MAC Address:

If I can get this sorted, I will then look at static IP addresses as per Gary's post.

Any clues in all of this? a reinstall of LMS? Router nearing the end of it days?

And apologies if this is all a garbled 'stream of consciousness' - I'm trying to explain things logically, but might be failing miserably.

Thank you

garym
2013-11-26, 13:47
Setting static IP addresses in all SB devices is fine, but 'pinning' the IP addresses in the router's DHCP server might be easier to configure, depending on the router's UI (and on the router's reliability).

Easier, but one is still subject to issues related to dhcp. (Which to be fair are no problem most of the time).

garym
2013-11-26, 13:53
. I clicked on the Touch and got a message: "This player is currently connected to MacNeill-PB - do you want to connect it to this LMS?" Selected 'yes', and now it appears above the line, but all the other players are gone....

This sounds like you have LMS running on more than one machine. "MacNeil-PB" is one and it thinks you have another PC. Remind us of what you are running LMS on? A PC, a nas? Or?? And is there more than one local computer running LMS?

ps start router first so it establishes Internet connection, starts up its dns server, gets ready to handout ip addresses via dhcp, etc.

donmacn
2013-11-26, 14:32
.This sounds like you have LMS running on more than one machine. "MacNeil-PB" is one and it thinks you have another PC. Remind us of what you are running LMS on? A PC, a nas? Or?? And is there more than one local computer running LMS?

Gary, That's what I thought it was suggesting, but the answer is that it's a really basic install. LMS running on a windows 7 PC, and it's been really stable since the last update was installed in August. I wish I could do a screen dump of the netgear 'map'. It now shows the PC with an IP address of 192.168.0.6; and the LMS (as shown in my last post) has an IP address of 192.168.0.8 - which I think is what its' 'always' been, or at least what it's been recently.

Has the DCHP server in the router picked them up as separate animals and assigned different IP addresses to them? Perhaps because I simply started them both at the same time after the reboot? It might have picked up the PC starting, and then the LMS shortly after?

garym
2013-11-26, 14:41
Gary, That's what I thought it was suggesting, but the answer is that it's a really basic install. LMS running on a windows 7 PC, and it's been really stable since the last update was installed in August. I wish I could do a screen dump of the netgear 'map'. It now shows the PC with an IP address of 192.168.0.6; and the LMS (as shown in my last post) has an IP address of 192.168.0.8 - which I think is what its' 'always' been, or at least what it's been recently.

Has the DCHP server in the router picked them up as separate animals and assigned different IP addresses to them? Perhaps because I simply started them both at the same time after the reboot? It might have picked up the PC starting, and then the LMS shortly after?

What is the MacNeil-PB ? And yes LMS should have same IP address as the PC running LMS. Do this. Turn off everything, unplug players, unplug router and modem. Then start modem, let fully boot and run. Start router and let fully start (maybe 5 mins). Start pc and let fully start. Then start LMS if it didn't start automatically. Last plug in your players and let start. On the players select "my music" and it should offer up your LMS if not already connected. Select this.

donmacn
2013-11-26, 14:46
Gary, thanks for this. MacNeill PB is simply the name of the PC - My name is MacNeill, the computer is a Packard Bell = MacNeill-PB.

I'll away now and try the routine you've suggested. Hopefullly be able to come back soon with a report.

Ta

JohnSwenson
2013-11-26, 14:55
One BIG issue is that the machine LMS is running on and your SB2 both have the same IP address, this is very bad, there is something really wrong going on here, that should not happen.

I can think of three possible reasons for this:

1) Your DHCP server is messed up

2) you have TWO DHCP servers on your network (maybe your PC is setup as a DHCP server?)

3) you have some devices using DHCP and some with fixed addresses, and ranges overlap

I think a quick tutorial on DHCP is in order

A device on the network needs an IP address, it can either have one programmed into the device, known as a static IP address, OR it can get one at boot time from some other device on the network.

DHCP is the most popular method of network assigned addresses. The system consists of a DHCP server (usually built into the router) that contains a "pool" of addresses that it assigns to other devices. That pool is usually a continuous subset of addresses used on your LAN. For example in your system you are using 192.168.0.xxx, where xxx can be 1->254. The DHCP server is usually set for some portion of this, such as 2->200 or 100->254 etc. The DHCP server should never use the whole range so there are some numbers left for you to assign static IPs if you desire.

When a device boots up it sends out a message on the LAN saying "give me an address". The DHCP server creates a "lease" for this device, it is an address from the pool AND a length of time it is good for. (on home servers it is frequently 24 hours, but can be much shorter or longer) If the lease runs out the device can't talk to other devices. Before the lease runs out (usually 10 minutes before) the device tries to renegotiate the lease with the server.

IF the server is working right and all devices are using DHCP you should never have two devices with the same address. IF you use static addresses it is your responsibility to make sure you don't give any two devices the same address AND that you make sure you assign addresses outside of the pool used by the DHCP server.

As mentioned above this goes out the window if you have TWO DHCP servers on the LAN. When a device requests a lease, it just sends out the message and waits for a response, if there are two servers that have overlapping pools, it's very easy to get address conflicts, if both servers reply to the request the device uses one and not the other, the two servers don't communicate with each other, they both think they are the only ones on the LAN.

Normally your only DHCP server is in your router so it's not a problem. BUT it is also possible to setup a PC as a DHCP server (it's something like network sharing, I don't remember the exact name). You might want to check and see if that is setup on your PC. Another possibility is having a modem that has a bultin DHCP server AND a separate router that has a DHCP server. Some DSL, cable modems etc actually contain routers and DHCP servers builtin, if you add a separate router after that, you can wind up with two DHCP servers without knowing it. If that is the case you need to turn off one of those DHCP servers.

I know, probably way more info than you ever wanted to know!

It might be a good idea to give us a list of all your networking equipment (modems, routers, switches, APs etc) and how they are connected, that will help us figure out what might be happening here.

John S.

aubuti
2013-11-26, 14:58
Gary, That's what I thought it was suggesting, but the answer is that it's a really basic install. LMS running on a windows 7 PC, and it's been really stable since the last update was installed in August. I wish I could do a screen dump of the netgear 'map'. It now shows the PC with an IP address of 192.168.0.6; and the LMS (as shown in my last post) has an IP address of 192.168.0.8 - which I think is what its' 'always' been, or at least what it's been recently.

Has the DCHP server in the router picked them up as separate animals and assigned different IP addresses to them? Perhaps because I simply started them both at the same time after the reboot? It might have picked up the PC starting, and then the LMS shortly after?
LMS doesn't get its own IP address -- it has the IP address of the computer on which it is running. Your earlier post has 192.168.0.8 as the IP address of the server and the IP address of the Garage SB2, and that can't be right. Any chance that at one time you did assign static IPs and now they are conflicting? Or perhaps you assigned a static IP that is within the range that DHCP allocates? Also, could you possibly have two active network adapters on the PC, such as one wired and one wireless?

Re screendump of the Netgear map -- is the Netgear map running in a browser window? If so, you could use the old "Shift-PrtSc" combination to put the screendump on the clipboard. Or with Win7 you should be able to use the Snipping Tool (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Snipping Tool).

EDIT: While I was typing my little message John S came in with a much more comprehensive explanation.

donmacn
2013-11-26, 15:55
Hi all,

Lots of thanks due to everyone. Particularly to Gary - following that measured shut-down and restart procedure, I now have all the players back, and the LMS and PC IP addresses are the same. This suggests a big part of this was my ignorance about starting the router first, and to use a good Scots word, it just got itself in a fankle dishing out IP addresses? A couple of the players seemed a little reluctant to switch over to the 'my music' source, but they did. And the Touch was 'confusing' and seemed to want to start its own version of LMS, but we're there now.

John - when I got your first message this morning, I did go off and research DCHP and TCP/IP and other stuff that took me to. Still a bit cloudy, but I do know a bit more. As I said above, it's a pretty basic system, with one device as a gateway/router. There is no separate modem. If the PC is acting as a DCHP server then I certainly wouldn't have set it up that way knowingly. (I assume it isn't now that things are back to normal?). But you've given me further clarity on potentially using static IP address - and that they have to be outside the range of those the router may allocate. I actually get the impression that the various IP addresses don't actually change very much anyway over time? If I'm going to be more comfortable with this in the longer run, I think I do need to understand a bit more about networking.

Aubuti - thanks for the snipping tool thing. I had tried the print screen button, but that hadn't worked... but now, I'm armed with a new tool! That said, I can't get it in here - does it need to get saved as a picture, then linked to this post? It might not matter at this stage, but could come in handy when I next come back with some numpty questions!

I wish I knew what had caused it all in the first place though - as I said at the outset, I switched one player off, and minutes later tried to turn another one on with no joy.... but... main thing is it's working for now. Maybe a lease expiry like John's suggested.

So, lots of thanks to all for helping out - I really do appreciate it. "It's only music" - but it seems to take on a surprising significance when it isn't working.

I think this looks a lot better than it did a little while ago:

Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.3 - 1375965195 @ Mon Aug 12 11:14:33 CUT 2013
Hostname: MacNeill-PB
Server IP Address: 192.168.0.3
Server HTTP Port Number: 9000
Operating system: Windows 7 - EN - cp1252
Platform Architecture: 8664
Perl Version: 5.14.1 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
Total Players Recognized: 6

Library Statistics
Total Images: 64
Total Videos: 0
Total Tracks: 13,199
Total Albums: 1,594
Total Artists: 790
Total Genres: 97
Total Playing Time: 913:30:37

Player Information
Information on all identified devices connected to Logitech Media Server

Cellar squeezebox
Player Model: Squeezebox
Firmware: 40
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.15
Player MAC Address:

Downstairs Boom
Player Model: Squeezebox Boom
Firmware: 57
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.6
Player MAC Address:
Wireless Signal Strength: 99%

Garage SB2
Player Model: Squeezebox
Firmware: 40
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.14
Player MAC Address:

Kitchen Boom
Player Model: Squeezebox Boom
Firmware: 57
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.9
Player MAC Address:
Wireless Signal Strength: 53%

SB3 #1
Player Model: Squeezebox Classic
Firmware: 137
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.8
Player MAC Address:
Wireless Signal Strength: 70%

Squeezebox Touch
Player Model: Squeezebox Touch
Firmware: 7.7.3-r16662
Player IP Address: 192.168.0.11
Player MAC Address:

garym
2013-11-26, 16:00
Excellent. And a network mashup can often be solved by turning everything off then restarting in right order.

aubuti
2013-11-26, 16:47
Aubuti - thanks for the snipping tool thing. I had tried the print screen button, but that hadn't worked... but now, I'm armed with a new tool! That said, I can't get it in here - does it need to get saved as a picture, then linked to this post? It might not matter at this stage, but could come in handy when I next come back with some numpty questions!
Yes, you can save it as a picture by clicking on that (anachronistic) diskette icon, and then you can upload with your post under the "Attachments" section when composing a post.

You should go back and edit out the MAC addresses for your players in your posts in these threads. They could be misused by people in a way that could cause you trouble in the future. Sorry to be cryptic about the "how" or "why", but I don't want to spell it out for people who haven't already thought of it. Don't worry about the IP addresses -- those are local to your network and can't be misused.

And thanks for the addition of "fankle" to my vocabulary. Cheers!

pippin
2013-11-26, 18:26
Fair enough. No argument, and I'll remember that for next time. Do you mind if I ask why?


Well, I'm obviously a little late with the answer but for the next time:
Your router is what it's supposed to set the IP addresses. If it's not already present when your computer starts, the computer might self assign an address, for example the last one it used and if the router then assigns the same address to a different device you are in trouble.

Please note that I would recommend _against_ setting fixed IP addresses because in my experience you tend to have so many devices on networks these days (I'm beyond 40 now) that you can easily lose the overview. Also, some devices these days don't _support_ manually setting IP addresses so unless all your fixed addresses are in a special, reserved address space (admittedly, I have a few of those, too), you inevitably run into trouble.

DHCP usually works and it it doesn't, it's usually a router problem.

donmacn
2013-11-27, 03:12
You should go back and edit out the MAC addresses for your players in your posts in these threads.

Thanks - done that. I appreciate the need to be cryptic, and the answer would doubtless be over my head anyway.


And thanks for the addition of "fankle" to my vocabulary. Cheers!

I'll leave "stooshie" for another day then.... probably what I'd get into if someone misused my MAC addresses!

thanks also to pippin for the router/dhcp answer above. There is no doubt that I learn a little bit more each time I have to clear one of these hurdles.

Cheers.

Donald

reinholdk
2013-11-27, 05:18
Great to see that you could sort things out.


And the Touch was 'confusing' and seemed to want to start its own version of LMS, but we're there now.

Are you aware that the Touch can indeed run it's own LMS (sometimes called 'TinyLMS' over here)?. Since I've never used it, I'm not sure whether it does this automatically when you add a SD card or USB drive to it or whether it's a manual choice.

So did you have a running LMS on the Touch (or still have)? You can check by opening the LMS Web page in any browser by entering http://192.168.0.11:9000 there (where 192.168.0.11 is the IP address of your Touch and the 9000 is the port number the LMS web server is usually listening to).

Mnyb
2013-11-27, 06:11
Great to see that you could sort things out.



Are you aware that the Touch can indeed run it's own LMS (sometimes called 'TinyLMS' over here)?. Since I've never used it, I'm not sure whether it does this automatically when you add a SD card or USB drive to it or whether it's a manual choice.

So did you have a running LMS on the Touch (or still have)? You can check by opening the LMS Web page in any browser by entering http://192.168.0.11:9000 there (where 192.168.0.11 is the IP address of your Touch and the 9000 is the port number the LMS web server is usually listening to).

That would not work the TinyLMS does not have a web-server , to weak hardware for that it's disabled .

But the onboard server should not run unless there is media attached .

reinholdk
2013-11-27, 14:20
That would not work the TinyLMS does not have a web-server , to weak hardware for that it's disabled .


But the onboard server should not run unless there is media attached .

Thanks for correcting me - as I said, I've never used it. Could there be any other reason why the OP mentioned that the Touch "seemed to want to start its own version of LMS"?

Mnyb
2013-11-27, 15:27
Thanks for correcting me - as I said, I've never used it. Could there be any other reason why the OP mentioned that the Touch "seemed to want to start its own version of LMS"?

Not really I think you can start it in a menu somewhere , or he did attach a usb stick or something .
Or tried to conect it with usb cables ?

donmacn
2013-11-27, 16:50
Hiya,
As per normal - nothing fancy or tricky here! Just using the Touch as a straightforward player, fed from the main computer's version of LMS.

After the restart, the Touch just didn't look quite like 'normal'. I was trying to find a screen like on the boom, SB3 and SB1 where i could select "my music" as the source, and it doesn't have quite the same menus does it?

Then there is that menu/screen which (a bit confusingly) says "LMS is not running". Because I'd picked up via the forums that the Touch had the server option, i assumed it related to that, rather than the PC version of the server, which I knew was running. All I was really saying was that the Touch didn't seem to start quite as simply as the other players. Sorry if my sloppy wording has suggested something else.

donmacn
2013-11-30, 03:02
So, still a few issues I think. I'll try and do it in a timeline, for logic reasons, but also in case it makes a difference in diagnosing any issues.

After the full restart mentioned above, one of the players ( kitchen boom) didn't connect. Maybe significant that it was the player that stayed connected during all the troubles I was having earlier?

So, yesterday I switched off the PC and router when I left for work - off all day. Came back home and switched on the router/gateway. Left it to warm up for about 20 mins before switching on the PC. Left that for 10 mins or so before turning on the kitchen boom. It connected OK and played happily. About 20 minutes later I powered up the Touch - no problems there either. I left it at that for the night. The PC/server would have powered down overnight.

This morning, I powered up an SB3, and it did a WOL on the server/PC. This obviously took a little while to fire up, but the SB3 player connected and played OK.

Next, into the kitchen for breakfast, switched on the kitchen boom that had been working fine the night before. Powered up OK, but couldn't connect to the server. Went back through the set up routine. It picks up and connects to the network OK, but can't seem to find an IP - it says it can't find the DCHP server.

other things. The Touch and the SB3 are still connected, but Squeezepad and the Logitech app on my ipad can't connect to the server - which is still running.

I can, and probably will, run through the whole shut down/restart routine again, but after having done it twice I wonder if that will make any difference.

If the boom can't get an IP address I wonder:
Is the router/DCHP server starting to play up (though it seems most of the other gadgets work ok)?
Could there be a problem with the boom itself? (though just a reminder that it worked fine last night)
Shoild I learn how to, and then implement static IP addresses for static network devices? Would that lead to a more robust system?

Thanks in advance for any further advice. As always, I do appreciate it.

Aubuti - not quite a "stooshie' yet, but we could be heading that way....!

Donald

(Edit - the ipad apps have now connected - without my doing anything, or even moving from where I wrote the post above.... Does that suggest something is "sticky" - maybe the DCHP server part of the router? I'd have thought not, as the ipad is connected OK, so somehow there's poor communications or connection with the LMS?)

donmacn
2013-11-30, 03:08
(Double post - deleted)

toby10
2013-11-30, 03:46
Sure sounds like you have network gremlins here.
Checked for duplicate IP's? Checked that PC/LMS IP is same when it first boots up and when it does WOL?

In router settings make sure:
- max # of allowed devices has not been exceeded
- set to a fixed WiFi ch of 1 or 6 or 11 (not set to auto which could keep changing ch's)
- your router name/SSID is unique to only your router (i.e. neighbors SSID is not same as yours)
- turn off Guest Network (if present)
- set router to G only (turns off a & b), or set to G+N if you use any N WiFi devices
- set router lease time to it's maximum (usually 999 hours)

If player won't connect to server (but does get an IP) try connecting player to MySB.com first then switch player back to LMS server.

donmacn
2013-11-30, 03:59
Sure sounds like you have network gremlins here.
Checked for duplicate IP's? Checked that PC/LMS IP is same when it first boots up and when it does WOL?

In router settings make sure:
- max # of allowed devices has not been exceeded
- set to a fixed WiFi ch of 1 or 6 or 11 (not set to auto which could keep changing ch's)
- your router name/SSID is unique to only your router (i.e. neighbors SSID is not same as yours)
- turn off Guest Network (if present)
- set router to G only (turns off a & b), or set to G+N if you use any N WiFi devices
- set router lease time to it's maximum (usually 999 hours)

If player won't connect to server (but does get an IP) try connecting player to MySB.com first then switch player back to LMS server.

Thanks Toby,
I was just about to post a further edit to my last message, and saw you'd replied.

The update is that, having let it sulk for an hour or so, I went back to the kitchen boom and it found an IP address this time, and connected fine.

But, obviously I don't really think that this will be a stable position, and it's likely it or other players will lose connections.

it seems to me that maybe the DCHP part of the router is playing up, so I've been studying the use of static IP addresses as recommended by some further up this discussion, and how I would go about implementing this.

There's some of your specific suggestions that I'm not sure i could manage, but i do know that I don't have neighbour issues, and I'm fairly sure I haven't exceeded the number of devices as I've still got a few players disconnected/powered down, which have previously been on OK.

I'd need to research which devices use G or n wifi - not something I'm really familiar with, but I have stuff as old as the orginal SB1s and as new as a 4th gen ipad, so I imagine they'll be using a mix of old and new tech.

I will need to check the PC/LMS IP on start up and WOL, that sounds like it could be useful info., but as things are now working, it does suggest some sort of intermittent fault with DCHP doesn't it?

Thanks

reinholdk
2013-11-30, 06:13
That your Boom couldn't find the DHCP server is really strange. Is it connected wired or wirelessly?

That it takes a moment to successfully connect the player when you woke up the PC by a WOL message from the players is quite normal.

And I've experienced rare occasions where one player can't connect to LMS while other players are connected and playing fine. If I then check the network settings of the affected player (there's a menu 'settings->advanced->diagnosis->server information' in the radio and touch - don't know about older players), I see that it connected to the server by only one of the two tcp ports needed (guess 3483 but not 9000). Simply stopping and restarting LMS helps in these cases.

donmacn
2013-11-30, 06:50
Thanks Reinhold,
Well, it was working fine earlier. Switched it off for a while, then turned it back on again at lunch, worked fine again. So.... will probably just see how we go.

It's connected via wireless, not ethernet, but has never given any problems until now - and certainly the 'couldn't fine DCHP server' was a new one to me. I'm quite used to players seeing the network, but being unable to connect, but until today, I hadn't had one connect then fail to find an IP.

At the heart of all this I suspect it's not LMS or the players, but the network.

I'll let it go for now while I read up on static IP addresses, and maybe a better router with a more powerful wifi Access Point (if that's the right term).

Ta

garym
2013-11-30, 07:05
Sure sounds like you have network gremlins here.
Checked for duplicate IP's? Checked that PC/LMS IP is same when it first boots up and when it does WOL?

In router settings make sure:
- max # of allowed devices has not been exceeded
- set to a fixed WiFi ch of 1 or 6 or 11 (not set to auto which could keep changing ch's)
- your router name/SSID is unique to only your router (i.e. neighbors SSID is not same as yours)
- turn off Guest Network (if present)
- set router to G only (turns off a & b), or set to G+N if you use any N WiFi devices
- set router lease time to it's maximum (usually 999 hours)

If player won't connect to server (but does get an IP) try connecting player to MySB.com first then switch player back to LMS server.

good advice. Also make sure your SSID is not "hidden" (router setting). Hiding SSID provides no security but can sometimes create problems.

Also, why the need to turn off modem/router all the time? I leave mine on 24/7 for years at a time. If you are going to turn on/off router, I think that having true fixed IP addresses for all your players is a good idea, as connecting/finding IP addresses has fewer steps if they have static IP addresses. (edit: at my weekend place I turn everything off/unplug when leaving (because of potential lightning storms) but on return after 1,2, or 3 weeks, plug modem/router and SB things in and Touch, Radio, Boom, and Controller all reconnect automatically in a matter of a few minutes. I use fixed IP addresses for all these items.)

donmacn
2013-11-30, 11:51
Hi Garym,

i don't think i have a need to keep turning the router on & off. Until you suggested it as part of a shut down/ systematic restart, it probably hadn't been turned off for months, if not years. But, doing a full, incremental restart seemed to be useful, so I'd just done it again. I feel that the need to do it (players not consistently finding the network or server) points to something going wrong. if it's not the players (and i don't think it is) then it has to be something to do with the network or router. Shutting down the PC is something I raised in the other thread, with my wife very keen on doing it, and my thoughts about moving to a quiet, fanless server (vortexbox or similar) as an alternative.

back to the current issues, I think the router is set to broadcast the SSID, so not hidden in any way. In the past, and I've been using SB stuff for quite a while, I've gone for ages - definitely years - without any issues. So recently I've added a couple of new players (SB3), and found that things have just not 'settled down'.

In the normal scheme of things, there will be days when players are not used - I think when I'm away with work the rest of the family are a bit scared of using them in case they don't work - or occasionally weeks if we're away on holiday, but most of the time they'll be used quite regularly. So I'm quite sure I'll get over this, and get the whole set going properly.

if proper static IP addresses are part of that solution, I'm definitely happy to learn how to achieve and administer that.

I know I'm repeating myself, but i do appreciate the continued help.

Cheers

D

garym
2013-11-30, 12:50
Understood. Sounds like things are mostly on track now. Fixed ip addresses may not help but can't hurt. I use true fixed on everything that doesn't leave the house.