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View Full Version : Thank you so much, and good bye :)



autopilot
2013-11-06, 13:22
It makes me a little sad, well very sad actually, but its time for me to move on and my Squeezeboxes have been sold.

Really I just wanted to say a huge thank you to the developers past and present, the third party plugin creators, and the community as a whole. Squeezebox changed my life in many ways, certainly the way I enjoyed music. I personally think the Squeezebox 3/Classic is one of the best consumer electronic devices ever made and remains a beautifully aesthetically designed item even now. I have had some great times and a lot of fun, especially during the beta testing of the Touch, Duet, which I was very lucky to have been a part of.

It still remains a great system and I know the community will keep things going forward. But it's not for me anymore. It always an enthusiast device in a lot of ways, and with official support to come to an end it's going to be even more niche. I just don't have the time to tech support myself and constantly tweak things to keep it running now. Last straw was an irate wife called me at work to try and get the a touch working again.

It's just not for me anymore. I have less time to listen to much these days, don't have an 'audiophile' system, and when I do use it needs to just work. So in the meantime I'm going down the Apple route (I know, know, but it's cheap and reliable) until the day I have more time and money.

I always said that the Squeezebox was in general the best home audio system available but it's not for everyone. I still stand by that, it's just that I'm now in the 'not for everyone' category.

Things might have been different if logitech had not mismanaged and ruined things so badly, but many thanks again to everyone who has helped enrich me my music life so much over the last 8 years. It been an blast :)

ModelCitizen
2013-11-06, 13:28
From one old timer to another I have to say that your announcement has saddened me. And also surprised me a little. My set up has been stable for years. I never need to touch it, it just works.

Anyway. Good luck.

autopilot
2013-11-06, 13:58
Thanks MC. Yes, it's not that unstable but it does require a certain amount of maintenance. But that's not really the only reason, it's partly financial. My use case does not match so much anymore. If I had the money spare a decent NAS would have helped too.

I hope you get to enjoy your squeezebox system for many more years to come :)

Otto-Wilhelm
2013-11-06, 15:22
I can not understand this decision and the reasons stated.

An old PC with sufficient "power" is very cheap and allows very decent Squeezebox/Logitech Server functionality. Another option are NAS devices from Synology and similar which also provide decent Squeezebox/Logitech Server functionality for reasonable costs.

I am using Apple devices as well, which - however - are not cheap at all.

My Squeezebox/Logitech Server works very stable and I think that the functionalites such as MusicIP are the best you can currently expect, so that I bought a number of spare Squeezebox devices (1 Transporter, plural Touch, plural Radio, plural Controller). I intend to stay with Squeezebox for many many years.

ModelCitizen
2013-11-06, 15:47
Like Autopilot my usage has changed in the last decade (it's not that long is it?). I now mostly use my system for listening to BBC Radio 4 (really!), although I do often play local music, various other internet radio services, use MusicIP, synchronisation and various plugins.

Triode's iPlayer plugin and bpa's iPlayer Extra plugin are crucial to my enjoyment of the system (and the debt of gratitude I have to these two people is enormous).

I control the lot using the great Orange Squeeze from a Google Nexus 4 phone, 7 or 10 tablets (whichever is nearest) and have a variety of players spread throughout the house, the garage and even a receiver in my pole barn (I use repeating routers to extend my wireless network). I have a Windows based PC upstairs running LMS 24/7. It is still my main PC but I use it very little now as the tablets serve most of my needs.

And like I say it just works. I've still not seen any other system that comes close. Even the expensive Sonos system is limited in comparison. Mind you, I know nothing about the Apple stuff (and personally after Apple screwed me over with too-quickly redundant iPhone 3 and volume crippled iPod I'd never touch once of their products again).

Just thought I'd pipe up for the sake of balance. :-)

autopilot
2013-11-06, 16:02
I can not understand this decision and the reasons stated.

An old PC with sufficient "power" is very cheap and allows very decent Squeezebox/Logitech Server functionality. Another option are NAS devices from Synology and similar which also provide decent Squeezebox/Logitech Server functionality for reasonable costs.

I am using Apple devices as well, which - however - are not cheap at all.

My Squeezebox/Logitech Server works very stable and I think that the functionalites such as MusicIP are the best you can currently expect, so that I bought a number of spare Squeezebox devices (1 Transporter, plural Touch, plural Radio, plural Controller). I intend to stay with Squeezebox for many many years.

Well I got an Apple TV and Airport express for what I sold my SB3 alone for, and with external DACs are fine for my use. My SB3 was rarely used, someone else can get more enjoyment off it now. The Apple TV will provide netflix and GarageBand duties etc for the kids and the Airport express means my wife can use the BBC iPlayer app in the kitchen relatively trouble free.

I guess we are all different. I don't intend to use the Apple stuff forever, I realise it's limitations. My life is in a state of flux and one day when I have more funds I will be tracking down the Transporter I always wanted.

As I said, it's a sad day and not a decision I took lightly. But it makes sense to me right now. I really just wanted to say thanks for the good times :)

Long live the Squeezebox.

Philip Meyer
2013-11-06, 17:41
>Thanks MC. Yes, it's not that unstable but it does require a certain
>amount of maintenance.

The core LMS server has remained pretty stable for me for a long time, and I've always close to the bleeding edge, running from the latest server source code updates.
What sometimes goes unstable are plugins that lag behind server changes if you are on the bleeding edge. On-line services change and things like BBC Radio, radio station streams, etc often fail, but likely to be issues with any device that depends on internet resources?

So, if you don't want maintenance, stick with a known server version, avoid MySqueezeBox.com and bookmark your own internet radio streams.

dasmueller
2013-11-06, 18:16
Sorry to see you go. Best of luck going forward with whatever you decide to do.

erland
2013-11-06, 20:09
It makes me a little sad, well very sad actually, but its time for me to move on and my Squeezeboxes have been sold.

I'm really sorry to see you go, you will be missed around here.
You are of course very welcome to remain active in the community even if you don't own any Squeezeboxes, we need the diversity and there are areas in the forum which aren't about struggling with your setup, like for example the "Music" section.



It's just not for me anymore. I have less time to listen to much these days, don't have an 'audiophile' system, and when I do use it needs to just work. So in the meantime I'm going down the Apple route (I know, know, but it's cheap and reliable) until the day I have more time and money.

I hope the Apple route works better for you than it does for me.

The dependency on iTunes and synching to get the music on a tablet/smartphone and the fact that often I have to restart Airplay on the AppleTV for it to be available is more struggle for me than Squeezebox is, but it's probably something with my environment causing my issues. It probably works better for people who primarily listens to a streaming service through their iPad/iPhone or for people who purchase the music through iTunes music store or for people who have an iTunes Match subscription.

bernt
2013-11-06, 23:48
Apple, cheap and stable!? Yeah, right!


My SB system just works and my family use every day with zero suppport.

autopilot
2013-11-07, 04:39
Thanks guys. I'll pop in from time to time, one day I hope I have the time and money to dive back in. There are some cool things in the pipeline.

I understand the defensiveness of people about their systems, and I know it can be a very stable system. I'm not trying to be negative, indeed I have mostly positive things to say. The Squeezebox is overall the best multiroom audio system even today (although the Sonos is close and seems a bit cheaper these days). I perhaps did not express myself well, it's more a use case scenario and justifying keeping things when we have bills and other things would suit the kids/wife more. But like I said, the Apple stuff is just a stand in. We already have iPhones and iPads, and will be using Airplay. iTunes is a terrible bloated program that's unsuitable as a server. In fact when I played around a bit using it to serve video it was a lot less stable than Logitech server.

Thanks again :)

garym
2013-11-07, 04:46
Fully understand and best wishes. I'm sure many around here thank you for your many contributions to the forum and the users of the squeezebox "ecosystem". For me, as much as I enjoy the way the SB system transformed my listening experience, I really enjoy the (mostly) nice folks that hang out at this forum and the help they provide each other. I've learned a tremendous amount of useful information by simply checking in here. Regards...

autopilot
2013-11-07, 07:01
Absolutely, I have learnt a lot on these forums. Not just directly related to Squeezebox, bu many aspects of audio and technology.

bklaas
2013-11-07, 08:30
Sorry to see you go autopilot. It's a testament to how strong the user community is when, more than a year after Logitech gave up on Squeezebox, there are people that have such an affinity for it they are still having active discussions about it. Even in your case, to say adios.

Like others on the thread, your reasons for dropping it (stability??) are a bit confusing, especially for what you are moving to, but I respect your decision to move on.

Thanks for your assistance in Squeezebox feedback along the way. It was a good run.

cheers,
#!/ben

aubuti
2013-11-07, 08:51
Sorry to see you go autopilot. I don't fully understand your reasons for changing systems, but I trust that you know what is best for your situation. For the last several years my SB system has just worked for me, and I don't think it's "defensive" to say so. Obviously, YMMV.

Happy listening, and all the best from another forum member from "the class of October 2005".

autopilot
2013-11-07, 09:56
Sorry to see you go autopilot. It's a testament to how strong the user community is when, more than a year after Logitech gave up on Squeezebox, there are people that have such an affinity for it they are still having active discussions about it. Even in your case, to say adios.

Like others on the thread, your reasons for dropping it (stability??) are a bit confusing, especially for what you are moving to, but I respect your decision to move on.

Thanks for your assistance in Squeezebox feedback along the way. It was a good run.

cheers,
#!/ben

Ben, what a legend. I know what a huge part you played in making it all happen. Thank you :)

I wish I had not mentioned 'stability'. That's not really what I wanted to convey. It's more general maintenance, for example my wife or young children wanting to buy and add a new album and not having a clue where to start (where to buy, how to download, how to rescan...). Or when a plugin breaks, or the firewall inexplicably plays up... I know none of theses are insurmountable though. As I said, most of my devices are barely used now so I just wanted to swap them out for devices which will get more use and free up some much needed funds. I work away so much and my wife and kids are the main consumers now. I know Apple had its faults and limitations, but I will be a adequate stand in. In fact the airport express (via airplay) is mainly for her and she mainly listens to podcasts and BBC iPlayer (the touch iPlayer app stopped working about a week back for me). Anyway, fingers crossed, but I'm hopefully changing careers next year so I will have more cash spare. I'll move back up the ladder when I can. But for now it's goodbye. The fact that I am writing all this, which I've never done for anything else, is testament to how much pleasure the squeezebox and it's community has brought me. It's like saying good bye to an old friend.

aubuti, yes 2005 was a fine year indeed. Cheers buddy :)

Mnyb
2013-11-07, 10:45
Ben, what a legend. I know what a huge part you played in making it all happen. Thank you :)

I wish I had not mentioned 'stability'. That's not really what I wanted to convey. It's more general maintenance, for example my wife or young children wanting to buy and add a new album and not having a clue where to start (where to buy, how to download, how to rescan...). Or when a plugin breaks, or the firewall inexplicably plays up... I know none of theses are insurmountable though. As I said, most of my devices are barely used now so I just wanted to swap them out for devices which will get more use and free up some much needed funds. I work away so much and my wife and kids are the main consumers now. I know Apple had its faults and limitations, but I will be a adequate stand in. In fact the airport express (via airplay) is mainly for her and she mainly listens to podcasts and BBC iPlayer (the touch iPlayer app stopped working about a week back for me). Anyway, fingers crossed, but I'm hopefully changing careers next year so I will have more cash spare. I'll move back up the ladder when I can. But for now it's goodbye. The fact that I am writing all this, which I've never done for anything else, is testament to how much pleasure the squeezebox and it's community has brought me. It's like saying good bye to an old friend.

aubuti, yes 2005 was a fine year indeed. Cheers buddy :)

Good bye and welcome back if ever a successor product arrives (if the community projects yields anything beyond pure niche ) :)

Do participate in the music subforum ,as many adults i donít have many friends thatís really into music anymore must people lose the interest as they age (I have to to some extent ) . If I asked in my workplace "hi guys heard any good music lately" I would just be meet with a stare , it was something else way back . So music hints from the forum is a great inspiration .

Yes everyone always assumes that all people rip CD's and download files and fineness the tagging and order everything into nice folders anyway and treat that part as a given . "And how hard is it to point another software to the music ?" .
If you havenít ripped your files it is actually many hours of works before the collection is in and well maintained .

Apples concept of you buy the music and it's there available everywhere is a user friendly solution (on the other hand their sync solution is maddening why cant i just put some files on the freaking thing ).
The store is in the player software and players do make some sense (it is also a problem ,but we can vent that topic elsewhere ).

On the other hand a user like me like to collect files and rip CD's and fiddle with them , it's my "stamp collection" to use an analogy .

The problems seems to cluster on some users for unknown reason their players never connects their scans always fails plug-ins never loads etc , their firewall and AV software mess with the software and on and on thier wifi is a mess ?
I'll try help in the forum and also use beta software so that the most grotesque bugs have chance to bee weeded out before the general user base face them .
Even when doing that I only have one systems the bleeding edge beta has always been stable enough on my system .

Historically my only problem has been a yearly wifi ch war :) with my 14 closests neighbours until I just wired everything that did not move (it simpler and works better a k.i.s.s solution that suit an engineer like me . Cable =simple ,data over very weak radio transmitters = complex )

Mushroom_3
2013-11-07, 11:15
Sorry to see you go autopilot. It's a testament to how strong the user community is when, more than a year after Logitech gave up on Squeezebox, there are people that have such an affinity for it they are still having active discussions about it. Even in your case, to say adios.
#!/ben

Including buying new UE radios to "upgrade" and 2nd hand Squeezeboxes of all types for amazing money on ebay!

Dogberry2
2013-11-07, 12:57
Good luck with your new music solution, Autopilot. I hope it works out well for your needs.

As for me, I don't really have any "maintenance" issues, but since I'm the only one who puts new music into the system, that does simplify things. I know my wife would never want to have to bother with that side of it; she just wants to play the music, not maintain the database. And that suits me, because I'm pretty fussy about tagging, and prefer to do it myself anyway.

But as for the system itself, in my house there is no maintenance, really. Our WiFi is rock solid, and I haven't had to do anything with LMS in a long time. I'm a couple releases behind, but even when I do get around to updating, it won't take me more than fifteen minutes; it isn't painful.

Everybody has to make his own choices, of course, and I know not everybody's SB experience has been smooth and easy sailing. I do see that the Squeezebox line is somewhat of a niche system, but I happen to be in that niche. My requirements when I started were:

1. Music throughout a multi-level house
2. A large, lossless personal music library
3. Easily controlled from anywhere in the house
4. Ability to synchronize any combination of rooms

The SB system does all those things, and does them well. As far as I'm aware, no other system really meets all those requirements, at least within the same price range. Although there were some glitches over the years, they were really quite minor, and I can't recall the last time there was even a minor problem. There are now 8 players (Duets, Touches, Booms and Radios) in addition to a couple computers using SqueezePlay, and that covers most of the house quite well (though I might pick up another Radio or Boom for the basement workshop and/or garage). Among the hardware players there are frequently anywhere from two to six playing in sync. The majority of our listening is still from our own library, but we also have started using Sirius/XM and Pandora quite a bit.

As a bonus, we get access to our personal music collection when we travel. Last month we spent a week in a secluded cabin in the woods. There was no cell phone reception, but the place did have Internet access (via satellite dish) and WiFi, so I took one of the Booms along. I connected it to the IP address of the home system, set the bitrate limiting, and we had our music -- all our music -- with us on vacation, using SqueezeCommander on our phones to control it, just like at home. That's not a primary requirement for me, but it's a nice extra feature.

I don't fret much over the fact that official support is now coming to an end. If I lose the ability to put Sirius/XM on the Squeezebox players, that will be a bummer, but it isn't the end of the world. Other than that, I don't really need anything from Logitech or MSB.com anyway. I figure the hardware is good for a long time (barring physical accident), and by the time the devices start failing I'm hopeful that there will be adequate replacements available. But that's far enough in the future that I just don't worry about it. I'm in no hurry to liquidate the SB system and start over.

But regardless of what system anyone decides to go with, we can all agree that what matters most is what the Doobie Brothers told us: "Listen to the music!"

socistep
2013-11-08, 04:33
Good luck with your new music solution, Autopilot. I hope it works out well for your needs.

As for me, I don't really have any "maintenance" issues, but since I'm the only one who puts new music into the system, that does simplify things. I know my wife would never want to have to bother with that side of it; she just wants to play the music, not maintain the database. And that suits me, because I'm pretty fussy about tagging, and prefer to do it myself anyway.

But as for the system itself, in my house there is no maintenance, really. Our WiFi is rock solid, and I haven't had to do anything with LMS in a long time. I'm a couple releases behind, but even when I do get around to updating, it won't take me more than fifteen minutes; it isn't painful.

Everybody has to make his own choices, of course, and I know not everybody's SB experience has been smooth and easy sailing. I do see that the Squeezebox line is somewhat of a niche system, but I happen to be in that niche. My requirements when I started were:

1. Music throughout a multi-level house
2. A large, lossless personal music library
3. Easily controlled from anywhere in the house
4. Ability to synchronize any combination of rooms

The SB system does all those things, and does them well. As far as I'm aware, no other system really meets all those requirements, at least within the same price range. Although there were some glitches over the years, they were really quite minor, and I can't recall the last time there was even a minor problem. There are now 8 players (Duets, Touches, Booms and Radios) in addition to a couple computers using SqueezePlay, and that covers most of the house quite well (though I might pick up another Radio or Boom for the basement workshop and/or garage). Among the hardware players there are frequently anywhere from two to six playing in sync. The majority of our listening is still from our own library, but we also have started using Sirius/XM and Pandora quite a bit.

As a bonus, we get access to our personal music collection when we travel. Last month we spent a week in a secluded cabin in the woods. There was no cell phone reception, but the place did have Internet access (via satellite dish) and WiFi, so I took one of the Booms along. I connected it to the IP address of the home system, set the bitrate limiting, and we had our music -- all our music -- with us on vacation, using SqueezeCommander on our phones to control it, just like at home. That's not a primary requirement for me, but it's a nice extra feature.

I don't fret much over the fact that official support is now coming to an end. If I lose the ability to put Sirius/XM on the Squeezebox players, that will be a bummer, but it isn't the end of the world. Other than that, I don't really need anything from Logitech or MSB.com anyway. I figure the hardware is good for a long time (barring physical accident), and by the time the devices start failing I'm hopeful that there will be adequate replacements available. But that's far enough in the future that I just don't worry about it. I'm in no hurry to liquidate the SB system and start over.

But regardless of what system anyone decides to go with, we can all agree that what matters most is what the Doobie Brothers told us: "Listen to the music!"

This is very similar to me, a few years back when I first got into SB's I was living on my own in my flat and time wasn't a problem, fast forward a few years and I live with my partner and have a young family so time and money is limited so my main focus is being able to listen to music to relax - my Sb system is rock solid, I have a HP micro server with vortexbox which automates a lot of processes (cd/DVD ripping etc.), then from that 4-5 SB players, listening to mainly my lossless collection & spotify with the odd bit of internet radio, there is the occasional bit of work but nothing too taxing, I have no reason to change it or not considering leaving.

My dad recently bought a sonos setup and it works well for him, only one room currently and he uses an old phone as controller, however I don't see any gain in functionality to want to leave SB

mlsstl
2013-11-08, 11:25
Interesting how people have different experiences with the same product. My two Touchs, an old SB3 and a Radio are quite reliable whether it is playing NPR on the Radio in the kitchen or choosing music off my server for the main stereo. And, if the Squeezeboxes ever collectively die, I know my (backed-up) music collection is still there on my server in a standard format, waiting for whatever my next music player happens to be.

Other than dusting, I'm not quite sure what maintenance the SB players need. The music server (a Vortexbox) needs an occasional upgrade and I periodically add new music to the collection, but that's all easy enough and it'd still be required even if I was using a different playback system.

I was sad when Logitech discontinued the Touch and Transporter, but recognize they apparently never got the sales volume they needed out of of them. However, I gather component based 2-channel music-only systems are way out of fashion these days. That said, I'm a perfectly happy aging dinosaur with my discontinued gear. ;-)

pippin
2013-11-08, 12:00
Well, the ridiculous thing is that I believe Logitech got better sales of the Touch than they ever expected, they killed it because they _thought_ it wouldn't sell and got caught by surprise when it did but it was too late, they were already throwing all available resources at the Google TV which they expected to sell while actually....

ModelCitizen
2013-11-08, 12:14
Yes, as we know Logitech were not a very bright or sophisticated company and probably should have stuck to inanimates such as mouse, keyboards and speakers. A more imaginative company might have done things very differently.

JJZolx
2013-11-09, 21:25
Well, the ridiculous thing is that I believe Logitech got better sales of the Touch than they ever expected, they killed it because they _thought_ it wouldn't sell and got caught by surprise when it did but it was too late, they were already throwing all available resources at the Google TV which they expected to sell while actually....

I don't know how that's possible. They didn't kill the Touch in its early days of release. It was sold for a significant period of time. I doubt that it was really sales levels that were the major factor in the decision. The development and support costs of the Squeezebox product line had to have seemed astronomical in comparison to their traditional products like mice, keyboards and PC speakers.

ModelCitizen
2013-11-09, 22:04
The development and support costs of the Squeezebox product line had to have seemed astronomical in comparison to their traditional products like mice, keyboards and PC speakers.
Yes and this, along with their failure to understand the strengths of the product, led them to squander it.

I still think the Touch a silly confused device (yeah I know), the receiver/conroller a very badly designed bizarre oddity (set up anyone?) and Logitech's blind spot to the crucial nature of third party handhelds as controllers completely stupid. The radio was brilliant though and should have been used as a basis for a Boom II. A simple black box, no screen, no knobs player and then an audiophile version would have been good too. Very simple to produce an audiophile player and then sell with astronomical audiophile markup (serves them right!), perhaps partnering with respected small audiophile partner for branding.

Oh well. Easy in hindsight.

Mnyb
2013-11-10, 00:00
One could greatly reduce the Touch's confused identity by .

1. Remove the built in server and just pretend that that never happened :)
2. Use the freed up resources to make the USB an oficial ,audio output .
( but I suspect this would have had to happen in the development state . In reality maybe they had to use some other components for the USB. You can see the heroic struggles in the EDO app tread to support all kind of weird USB DAC's )

Yes it still has a display with I think is fine ,it serves it purposes especially setup , which to be bomb proff must be done at the device not even a built in web- UI setup in the product are that , even if duet setup would have been 10000 times better if the reciever had a small simple built in web-UI for the initial setup. And I like the to see the track displayed on the player or the cover and sometimes I use the Touch display for picking music too.

pippin
2013-11-10, 01:20
They did sell the Touch for quite a while but they dismantled most of the development team even before the release.

ModelCitizen
2013-11-10, 02:00
Yes it still has a display with I think is fine.
Display good, but including an expensive touch screen in a device tethered to your hifi by short audio leads when almost anyone who would be interested in buying it already had a smart phone, wireless network and could buy a controller app for under $5 was a strange thing to do.

Mind you, if sales were that good......

aubuti
2013-11-10, 07:23
Display good, but including an expensive touch screen in a device
Except the touchscreen isn't expensive at all. Similar screens are on every dime-a-dozen phone, GPS, etc. It may have seemed a lot fancier than the VFD screens that had been used in previous SBs, but it was actually a big cost saver in comparison.

ModelCitizen
2013-11-10, 08:19
You do need to factor in the programming required. But the main point is not the cost. The main point is that the inclusion of a touch screen so closely tethered to a HiFi virtually everyone who would want one already had a hand held controller in the shape of a smart phone seemed a bit misguided.

Certainly for me the number of times I use the touch interface is vanishingly small.

It is pretty though.

garym
2013-11-10, 08:47
I rarely use the touch screen, and in the case of one of my touches it is in a cabinet where I don't even see it. However, based on lots of posts (even a recent thread about the catch 22 of setting up SB3 without remote), it seems to me to be important to have some easy mechanism for setting up or occasionally accessing the SB player *other than* use of a remote or web interface.

aubuti
2013-11-10, 16:04
You do need to factor in the programming required.
That may well have been the larger share of the cost, but a lot of that was probably easy to spin off from the beginnings of SqueezeOS on the SB Controller.


But the main point is not the cost. The main point is that the inclusion of a touch screen so closely tethered to a HiFi virtually everyone who would want one already had a hand held controller in the shape of a smart phone seemed a bit misguided.
And then there are those of us for whom the smartphone is a Blackberry -- still no good controller apps out there yet for the BB, although I suppose BB10 takes some Android ports. Since getting an iPad I don't use the touchscreen as much, but I have used it a surprising amount, even after getting an iPod touch specifically for the purpose of controlling my SBs.