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bb1959
2013-10-30, 11:00
I'm getting rebuffering 2 -3 times per song on my local media and same with streaming media (MOG, LastFM, Slacker). I've had my setup for awhile (about 4 years, 2 SBT's) and it has never been this bad.

Any ideas?? It's really maddening!!

Brooks

aubuti
2013-10-30, 11:28
Some basic information would help. What are you running LMS on (computer, NAS, one of your Touches)? Are any of your connections, particularly the server, wireless? If you're running LMS on a computer, what are the other demands on the computer?

If wifi is any part of your equation, note that some things could affect your setup that you may not notice at first, such as a malfunctioning microwave oven, a new wireless router in the neighborhood, etc.

toby10
2013-10-30, 11:34
What about connecting player directly to MySB.com (no LMS even running) for online stations? Still get re buffering?

bb1959
2013-10-30, 11:43
Running LMS on ReadyNas Duo (Firmware: 7.7.2-r9663), touches are connected via ethernet). No new router, microwave, etc.

aubuti
2013-10-30, 11:56
Are the Touches sync'd or playing separately? And I take it you are getting rebuffering on both the Touches? If so, try replacing the ethernet cables, starting with the one from the NAS to the router.

bb1959
2013-10-30, 11:59
yes, my touches are synced. I may have narrowed down the problem a wee bit.

The rebuffering was occurring on my local media with high rez files downloaded from hdtracks. I'm now playing local media ripped from my cd's and no rebuffering.

So maybe it's the flac files only?

garym
2013-10-30, 12:04
yes, my touches are synced. I may have narrowed down the problem a wee bit.

The rebuffering was occurring on my local media with high rez files downloaded from hdtracks. I'm now playing local media ripped from my cd's and no rebuffering.

So maybe it's the flac files only?

16/44.1 flac are probably not causing buffering. Probably the 24/96 or 24/192 flacs. I can see how things might buffer with 24/192 files (as the readynas duo is woefully underpowered (I have one) and it has to do the work to convert the 24/192 to 24/96 so the Touch can play it. I wouldn't expect buffering with the 24/96 given that no conversion is being done (and everything is wired with ethernet).

bb1959
2013-10-30, 12:07
I download only 24/96. Would upgrading my NAS be the way to go? I really hate to do that but if it's the only solution...

BTW, I've had the NAS for 4 or so years and I've been downloading 24/96 flac for at least several years and never had the dropout problem until recently.

garym
2013-10-30, 12:17
I download only 24/96. Would upgrading my NAS be the way to go? I really hate to do that but if it's the only solution...

BTW, I've had the NAS for 4 or so years and I've been downloading 24/96 flac for at least several years and never had the dropout problem until recently.

24/96 should be fine as the Touch plays them natively. And the fact that you've been using them and have no problem points to something else. It seems:

1. only happens with your 24/96 files (more of a strain on network)
2. your NAS and TOUCH players are all wired via ethernet (so no WIFI involved)
3. All worked ok in the past with same files and NAS.

This leads me to believe that something is going wrong with your router, any switches you are using, or even an ethernet cable. Switches/routers can have particular jacks go bad. Cables can go bad, etc. And maybe it takes the hires files to "stress" the system and make the problem appear.

You can test the readynas, by plugging in a laptop or something to your router. Install LMS on the laptop, put some files on it, including hires, and stream to your touches. Still get buffering? If so, not the readynas fault. No buffering? Then I'm curious about the readynas (although it could still only be the switch, router,cables at that point)

JohnSwenson
2013-10-30, 12:23
I download only 24/96. Would upgrading my NAS be the way to go? I really hate to do that but if it's the only solution...

BTW, I've had the NAS for 4 or so years and I've been downloading 24/96 flac for at least several years and never had the dropout problem until recently.

One thing to check in the LMS settings is the file type settings, flac file can either be sent as flac files and the Touch does the decoding, or LMS can do the decoding and send PCM to the touch. Try it both ways and see which works better. I'm on vacation right now so I don't have an LMS handy to tell you exactly what the settings are, but there are others here that can help with that if you can't figure it out on your own.

One thing we do know is that many of the online sources compress their files with level 8, the highest compression ratio, which takes more horsepower to decode. You might want to try a program that takes the flac file and re-compress it with a lower level (say 1) and see if that makes any difference.

John S.

bb1959
2013-10-30, 12:29
I did souncheck's mods awhile back and followed the instructions to have LMS do the decoding...I forgot how I did it. I'll look around the settings and see if I can remember and set it the other way.

garym
2013-10-30, 12:29
One thing to check in the LMS settings is the file type settings, flac file can either be sent as flac files and the Touch does the decoding, or LMS can do the decoding and send PCM to the touch. Try it both ways and see which works better. I'm on vacation right now so I don't have an LMS handy to tell you exactly what the settings are, but there are others here that can help with that if you can't figure it out on your own.

One thing we do know is that many of the online sources compress their files with level 8, the highest compression ratio, which takes more horsepower to decode. You might want to try a program that takes the flac file and re-compress it with a lower level (say 1) and see if that makes any difference.

John S.

excellent points. I've had to convert from FLAC to FLAC on highres files before in order to make them work properly on my LMS. One can use foobar2000 or dbpoweramp for example to do this flac > flac conversion.

garym
2013-10-30, 12:33
I did souncheck's mods awhile back and followed the instructions to have LMS do the decoding...I forgot how I did it. I'll look around the settings and see if I can remember and set it the other way.

that's probably your issue. readynas duo is not that powerful. And you're now sending a large pcm file accross the network instead of a smaller FLAC file. go into LMS > Settings > advanced > filetypes

for FLAC, settings should be:

AIFF FLAC
FLAC NATIVE
MP3 FLAC/LAME
PCM FLAC

Mnyb
2013-10-30, 12:40
I download only 24/96. Would upgrading my NAS be the way to go? I really hate to do that but if it's the only solution...

BTW, I've had the NAS for 4 or so years and I've been downloading 24/96 flac for at least several years and never had the dropout problem until recently.

Not really you can easilly convert your 24/192 files to 24/96 with some mouse clicks with suitable software and use those copies on your server and keep the original as backup somewhere .

Note that squeezebo radio is limited to 48kHz , so syncing. A radio with a touch would result in a 48k stream .

bb1959
2013-10-30, 12:46
Just reset flac settings:

FLAC AIFF FLAC
FLAC NATIVE
MP3 disabled (this is grayed out)
PCM FLAC

still having dropouts. I don't have 24/192 files, just 24/96.

garym
2013-10-30, 12:51
Try turning everything off, including unplugging router and any switch. Restart router, then readynas, them touch players.

If still problem, I suspect bad router, switch or Ethernet cables.

bb1959
2013-10-30, 13:05
still dropouts....I guess I'll replace the router and see what happens.

thanks,

epoch1970
2013-10-30, 13:33
still dropouts....I guess I'll replace the router and see what happens.

thanks,

Didn't the Soundcheck's mods include some "low latency" voodoo ?
Maybe your hard drive is filling up. Read or write performance decrease the less free space is available...

Before changing the router, I would try removing any low latency tweaks, or connecting another drive.

bb1959
2013-10-30, 13:36
Plenty of room on my nas

garym
2013-10-30, 15:13
Is the touch connected directly to the router or is it in a different room with ethernet cables in the wall. If the latter, before replacing the router, I'd move the touch temporarily near the router and connect it to the router directly. So you'd have the touch and NAS connected directly to the router. Maybe replace the ethernet cables. cables and cable ends can go bad. And don't sync. Then see if you get buffering then using the Touch. If you do, then the router might be the issue. If you don't then it may be something between the router > ethernet cabling > touch in other room. Also, when you say connected via ethernet, it is actually ethernet connection or is it something like "ethernet over powerline" or MoCa (ethernet over cable)? Are there any intermediate switches involved?

then again, if you router is more than 2 or 3 years old, you can likely get a much better router for a cheap price anyhow.

bb1959
2013-10-30, 15:46
Both the touch and NAS are connected directly to the router in the same room. It drops whether synced or not. I'll replace the ethernet cables tomorrow and report back.

BTW, I use ATTUverse for internet/phone/tv. I'm not sure if I can replace the router.

garym
2013-10-30, 16:24
Both the touch and NAS are connected directly to the router in the same room. It drops whether synced or not. I'll replace the ethernet cables tomorrow and report back.

BTW, I use ATTUverse for internet/phone/tv. I'm not sure if I can replace the router.

Should be easy to test then (even trying different sockets on the router). Regarding ATTUverse, I suspect that even though you have a combined modem/router, etc. one can typically connect a router to the first unit, "turn off the DHCP server in the ATTUverse router" and then use the DHCP router in the new attached router. But then again, it all worked before without this, so something simple may have changed (or bad cable, etc.). And the internet connection is irrelevant to this problem because the playing your doing is local music, not streaming.

p.s. And I still think you could test the ReadyNAS itself, but taking it out of the equation and connecting your laptop running LMS to the router instead as a test.

Mnyb
2013-10-30, 19:02
You could also attach a switch to the router and all stuff to the switch and then the actual traffic with local files goes trough the switch and router only handle DCHP and Internet .

As long as NAS and players got their ip subnet dns etc correct , it will work .

Btw check the ip of server and players .

It would also be easy to check CPU load on the NAS ,use ssh and run the top command .
It could be a pending disc failure .

The player and server are truly wired with Ethernet , no power line adapters or similar ?

The player. Was it previously on wifi ? Did you redo the network setup after wiring it ? It does not become wired just by putting in the cable you must do the network,setup to use it .
If you use LMS web-UI and go to settings - information and player shows its wifi strength it is using wifi .

toby10
2013-10-31, 01:38
I'm getting rebuffering 2 -3 times per song on my local media and same with streaming media (MOG, LastFM, Slacker).

To be clear, the streaming services are not rebuffering, only hi-res local files rebuffer, correct?

bb1959
2013-10-31, 10:58
To be clear, the streaming services are not rebuffering, only hi-res local files rebuffer, correct?

I also get dropouts on my steaming services as well.

bb1959
2013-10-31, 11:00
Should be easy to test then (even trying different sockets on the router). Regarding ATTUverse, I suspect that even though you have a combined modem/router, etc. one can typically connect a router to the first unit, "turn off the DHCP server in the ATTUverse router" and then use the DHCP router in the new attached router. But then again, it all worked before without this, so something simple may have changed (or bad cable, etc.). And the internet connection is irrelevant to this problem because the playing your doing is local music, not streaming.

p.s. And I still think you could test the ReadyNAS itself, but taking it out of the equation and connecting your laptop running LMS to the router instead as a test.

Once I disconnect my NAS, exactly how do I go about connecting my laptop? I just connected the ethernet cable to my laptop which is running LMS and it showed up on my touch but when I tried to play a song it could not find the file.

garym
2013-10-31, 11:38
Once I disconnect my NAS, exactly how do I go about connecting my laptop? I just connected the ethernet cable to my laptop which is running LMS and it showed up on my touch but when I tried to play a song it could not find the file.

on the laptop:

1. install LMS
2. copy whatever songs you want in library to test over to laptop
3. in LMS > Settings > Basic Settings tab, point to the music directory on laptop with files and give this music library a name like "laptop LMS".
4. On your TOUCH, go to My Music, then scroll down to bottom and select "change library" (or something like that, from my memory). Then select "laptop LMS"

At this point your TOUCH is connected to your laptop LMS.

garym
2013-10-31, 11:40
I also get dropouts on my steaming services as well.

I'm a bit confused as I thought you said earlier that you'd narrowed it down to only having buffering with highres files. Streaming services are not highres (mog is maybe 320kbs mp3). But I'd keep the testing for now with local files...high res vs regular. If that is still a problem, then this has nothing to do with your external internet connection.

bb1959
2013-10-31, 11:40
on the laptop:

1. install LMS
2. copy whatever songs you want in library to test over to laptop
3. in LMS > Settings > Basic Settings tab, point to the music directory on laptop with files and give this music library a name like "laptop LMS".
4. On your TOUCH, go to My Music, then scroll down to bottom and select "change library" (or something like that, from my memory). Then select "laptop LMS"

At this point your TOUCH is connected to your laptop LMS.

Sorry, brain freeze. Just scanned library on my pc. Now playing my 24/96 high rez files...so far no dropout/rebuffering. I will play for awhile and see if it's refuffering free. If so, I guess I need to replace my nas.

bb1959
2013-10-31, 11:42
I'm a bit confused as I thought you said earlier that you'd narrowed it down to only having buffering with highres files. Streaming services are not highres (mog is maybe 320kbs mp3). But I'd keep the testing for now with local files...high res vs regular. If that is still a problem, then this has nothing to do with your external internet connection.

Yea, not as frequent on the streaming services...and only some but now all. I think lastFM is the biggest culprit.

garym
2013-10-31, 11:43
Sorry, brain freeze. Just scanned library on my pc. Now playing my 24/96 high rez files...so far no dropout/rebuffering. I will play for awhile and see if it's refuffering free. If so, I guess I need to replace my nas.

if highres seems to work, next test your streaming services. In your laptop LMS be sure to add your mysqueezebox.com credentials in LMS > Settings > mysqueezebox.com tab so that it picks up your myapps (like MOG, etc.).

bb1959
2013-10-31, 11:52
if highres seems to work, next test your streaming services. In your laptop LMS be sure to add your mysqueezebox.com credentials in LMS > Settings > mysqueezebox.com tab so that it picks up your myapps (like MOG, etc.).

I'm playing lastFM right now. So far so good.

bb1959
2013-10-31, 11:54
Any thoughts on a replacement NAS?

garym
2013-10-31, 12:10
Not really. too many options. Many NAS units seem to be over priced (particularly ReadyNAS). There are lots of choices these days. Be careful to get one with an x86 chip (the old readynas duo did NOT have x86 chip). And some of the newer readynas units are powerful enough but don't easily run LMS. Search these forms for "NAS Suggestion" or "NAS Recommendation" and you'll see some discussions. Not all NAS units will run LMS. So get some confirmation from the forum before buying.

I use vortexbox appliance from "small green computer" as a NAS. Very powerful, very open for tinkering (if one wants). and you could install the free vortexbox operating system on any old desktop or laptop you have sitting around and use that. for the desktop you don't need monitor or keyboard. You access the computer running VB from any other computer on your network via a browser and a webGUI.

p.s. Even with my old readynas duo that was way underpowered, I didn't have a buffering problem. It was painfully slow when scanning my music library or browsing by artist or album, etc. But actual *playing* of the files was just fine (although I wasn't playing any 24/96 files). All 16/44.1 flac and mp3.

callesoroe
2013-11-02, 13:04
Any thoughts on a replacement NAS?

I upgraded from a ReadNas Duo to a ReadyNas Ultra. And it was a huuuge improvement. :)

garym
2013-11-02, 13:10
I upgraded from a ReadNas Duo to a ReadyNas Ultra. And it was a huuuge improvement. :)

I haven't followed this issue closely, but just from seeing some threads on this forum, there seems to be some sort of newer OS for readynas units for which there is not a LMS version available. Perhaps this is resolved, but worth understanding before buying a newer readynas.

jimzak
2013-11-04, 04:50
Hi.

I'm going to jump in this thread and share that after several years of stability, I'm getting rebuffering on my system now, mainly streaming services (NPR) but also with Flac files streaming locally.

One radio in my bathroom is less than 10 feet away from my router and I get rebuffering of local Flac files and streaming NPR.

I'm aware that this means that likely that there is some new Wi-Fi nearby that is interfering.

What would be the suggested algorithm for troubleshooting this problem?

Thanks.

-------------

LMS server: i5 laptop wired to router
Router: Cisco E4200

garym
2013-11-04, 05:01
Hi.

I'm going to jump in this thread and share that after several years of stability, I'm getting rebuffering on my system now, mainly streaming services (NPR) but also with Flac files streaming locally.

One radio in my bathroom is less than 10 feet away from my router and I get rebuffering of local Flac files and streaming NPR.

I'm aware that this means that likely that there is some new Wi-Fi nearby that is interfering.

What would be the suggested algorithm for troubleshooting this problem?

Thanks.

-------------

LMS server: i5 laptop wired to router
Router: Cisco E4200

1. I'd start with examining all the local wifi networks and their channels. I use "inSSIDer" on my windows laptop. There are other free programs as well. Run this and you'll see nearby networks and the channels they are on. Try to use a "low use" channel, and best to use 1, 6, or 11 if possible as these don't overlap with nearby channels.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

2. make sure the router is using a fixed wifi channel (and that some update has not switched it to "automatic" for channel selection. If outside the US, don't use > 11, even if available.

3. I assume you are synching the players. I'd do some testing without the players synched. Some of the buffering I've had in the past related to my RADIO (which was synched to the Transporter). The Radio was struggling a bit with its wifi connection and causing the buffering (on both the radio and transporter).

p.s. I occasionally get buffering on some streaming internet radio stations. Not more than maybe once every 3 or 4 hours typically. And I've had this on the same station (WNYC-AM) at two different locations (different internet providers, different equipment, etc.), so I'm assuming this is more at the provider end vs my end.

jimzak
2013-11-04, 05:08
1. I'd start with examining all the local wifi networks and their channels. I use "inSSIDer" on my windows laptop. There are other free programs as well. Run this and you'll see nearby networks and the channels they are on. Try to use a "low use" channel, and best to use 1, 6, or 11 if possible as these don't overlap with nearby channels.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

2. make sure the router is using a fixed wifi channel (and that some update has not switched it to "automatic" for channel selection. If outside the US, don't use > 11, even if available.

3. I assume you are synching the players. I'd do some testing without the players synched. Some of the buffering I've had in the past related to my RADIO (which was synched to the Transporter). The Radio was struggling a bit with its wifi connection and causing the buffering (on both the radio and transporter).

p.s. I occasionally get buffering on some streaming internet radio stations. Not more than maybe once every 3 or 4 hours typically. And I've had this on the same station (WNYC-AM) at two different locations (different internet providers, different equipment, etc.), so I'm assuming this is more at the provider end vs my end.

More info:

1. I'm not attempting sync of players at all.
2. This AM when NPR was rebuffering frequently on the Boom in my office downstairs from the router, I switched to using Squeezeplay on my desktop computer which is wired by ethernet cable to my network: no rebuffering whatsoever.

I'll try the Wi-Fi sleuthing software later today and report back.

Thanks.

Mnyb
2013-11-04, 05:24
avoid using wifi ch above 11 with radio like ch 13 , this is due to a bug with the radio and it's automtic region sensing .

jimzak
2013-11-04, 17:43
1. I'd start with examining all the local wifi networks and their channels. I use "inSSIDer" on my windows laptop. There are other free programs as well. Run this and you'll see nearby networks and the channels they are on. Try to use a "low use" channel, and best to use 1, 6, or 11 if possible as these don't overlap with nearby channels.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

2. make sure the router is using a fixed wifi channel (and that some update has not switched it to "automatic" for channel selection. If outside the US, don't use > 11, even if available.

3. I assume you are synching the players. I'd do some testing without the players synched. Some of the buffering I've had in the past related to my RADIO (which was synched to the Transporter). The Radio was struggling a bit with its wifi connection and causing the buffering (on both the radio and transporter).

p.s. I occasionally get buffering on some streaming internet radio stations. Not more than maybe once every 3 or 4 hours typically. And I've had this on the same station (WNYC-AM) at two different locations (different internet providers, different equipment, etc.), so I'm assuming this is more at the provider end vs my end.

I used my Android Note 10.1 tablet and loaded up a free Wi-Fi app (WiFi Analyzer) with a 5 star rating. It was quite informative, and it has a great graphical interface that can be set to display all sorts of useful info.

I found another network on the same channel I was using. I moved my channel down a bit to a relatively unused part of the spectrum.

I had anticipated that all my devices would have to be reconfigured but so far they have all found their way onto the new channel without any fuss.

I'll report back on the results.

Thanks.

garym
2013-11-04, 17:48
I had anticipated that all my devices would have to be reconfigured but so far they have all found their way onto the new channel without any fuss.


yes, this is "transparent to the devices" in that nothing has to be changed. The devices need to know the SSID and the password, but the channel that WIFI is broadcasting on doesn't require any resetting.

jimzak
2013-11-08, 04:57
I used my Android Note 10.1 tablet and loaded up a free Wi-Fi app (WiFi Analyzer) with a 5 star rating. It was quite informative, and it has a great graphical interface that can be set to display all sorts of useful info.

I found another network on the same channel I was using. I moved my channel down a bit to a relatively unused part of the spectrum.

I had anticipated that all my devices would have to be reconfigured but so far they have all found their way onto the new channel without any fuss.

I'll report back on the results.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I still had some problems with the radio that is just 10 feet away from my router. I rechecked the WiFi situation with the analyzer and found no nearby networks that were on the same channel.

I'll change the channel again and see what happens.

boardtc
2013-11-12, 05:53
I have rebuffering problems to on my classic, wifi kit in the same room works without problem but the classic buffers continuously on my local library and deezer streaming service. I posted about this on this thread http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97866-My-Library-amp-Deezer-buffering-advice-request&p=762037#post762037 but have not figured out a solution

Having read a bit here I will try http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/ and play with the channels and report back.

Mnyb
2013-11-12, 08:56
I have rebuffering problems to on my classic, wifi kit in the same room works without problem but the classic buffers continuously on my local library and deezer streaming service. I posted about this on this thread http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97866-My-Library-amp-Deezer-buffering-advice-request&p=762037#post762037 but have not figured out a solution

Having read a bit here I will try http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/ and play with the channels and report back.

Are these other wifi kits streaming anything ? this is much more demanding than simple app use or web surfing .

jimzak
2013-11-13, 06:00
Unfortunately, I still had some problems with the radio that is just 10 feet away from my router. I rechecked the WiFi situation with the analyzer and found no nearby networks that were on the same channel.

I'll change the channel again and see what happens.

I ended up leaving things unchanged and have had several days free of rebuffering.

I'll post again if problems continue.

fsoares
2013-11-22, 10:16
After years of joy, for a couple of months I have had this problem. Music (wether streaming or local files) plays for two, or five, or even twenty minutes - and then the Sqbox 3 cuts off, goes blank for a couple of seconds and then automatically restarts, showing the Logitech logo, etc., as if it had just been plugged in, and resets automatically, with the screen finally showing whatever was playing - but stopped. If I then press Play it resumes that radio station, or local file, it was playing before cutting off.
Now the interesting facts: in happens with both ethernet and wireless connections, and it happens if I take the Squeezebox to a friend's home and connect to the internet through his network!!! So it happens anywhere, frequently and randomly. Right now I am listening to The Penthouse Radio and the last time I had to hit "Play" was 17 minutes ago - I am expecting it to go down any minute now…
I wonder if it could have something to do with the Sqbox power supply?!
I run LMS v. 7.7.3 on a MacBook pro. But again, it happens also with my squeezebox.com.

Mnyb
2013-11-22, 11:49
After years of joy, for a couple of months I have had this problem. Music (wether streaming or local files) plays for two, or five, or even twenty minutes - and then the Sqbox 3 cuts off, goes blank for a couple of seconds and then automatically restarts, showing the Logitech logo, etc., as if it had just been plugged in, and resets automatically, with the screen finally showing whatever was playing - but stopped. If I then press Play it resumes that radio station, or local file, it was playing before cutting off.
Now the interesting facts: in happens with both ethernet and wireless connections, and it happens if I take the Squeezebox to a friend's home and connect to the internet through his network!!! So it happens anywhere, frequently and randomly. Right now I am listening to The Penthouse Radio and the last time I had to hit "Play" was 17 minutes ago - I am expecting it to go down any minute now…
I wonder if it could have something to do with the Sqbox power supply?!
I run LMS v. 7.7.3 on a MacBook pro. But again, it happens also with my squeezebox.com.

Yes it reboots ,so it either down to the power supply or the wifi card in most situations ,but it could be something else but these two faults are common .
SB3 is able to function without the wifi card so you could remove it . Some people got lucky and only reseated the wifi card and regained functionality .