Nokia 770 Internet Appliance as Slimserver Controller

[bklaas]

I really like the slimserver web interface, but don't always have a laptop on or near my Squeezebox. I find the remote control/LED display method of queuing songs functional, but a bit clunky.

To that end, I've been searching for a reasonably-priced device that was "a little more than a PDA and a little less than a PC". I had a few requirements in mind-- runs a web browser, has a touchscreen, almost-instantaneous bootup, and won't make me squint at an ultra-teeny display.

this device that Nokia just announced looks like the closest thing to date:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellp...nce-104893.php
http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=1376

pros: runs embedded linux, looks to be < $350, >4" display, touchscreen, quick boot
cons: comes loaded with Opera as a web browser (major bummer)

Has anyone found a similar niche device that looks like it fits this bill? (if you use your TV or a PDA or a Cell Phone to control your Squeezeboxen, good for you, but that's not what I'm shooting for) I gave the PepperPad a look (way too expensive), and have considered ViewSonic AirDisplays (big, Microsoft-shackled).

cheers,
#!/ben

[adhir]

I've been researching the same thing lately. The Nokia 770 is quite a
find -- looks promising -- although I can't see how they're going to
sell it for under $350. BTW -- being loaded with Opera is prob not a
big deal -- it's running Linux so you can install whatever browser you
want on it. As it happens, Opera is prob faster than most other
browsers, and that's a big factor on small, slow machines such as these.

The only other device I've found which fits the bill is a Sharp Zaurus
SL-5500 -- would need a WIFI card for it, but the whole shebang can be
had for under 200 from ebay these days. The big plus is that you get a
keyboard. Yes, I realize this is sold as a PDA, but let's face it --
it's much more than that -- it's an ultraportable Linux box.

bklaas wrote:

>I really like the slimserver web interface, but don't always have a
>laptop on or near my Squeezebox. I find the remote control/LED display
>method of queuing songs functional, but a bit clunky.
>
>To that end, I've been searching for a reasonably-priced device that
>was "a little more than a PDA and a little less than a PC". I had a few
>requirements in mind-- runs a web browser, has a touchscreen,
>almost-instantaneous bootup, and won't make me squint at an ultra-teeny
>display.
>
>this device that Nokia just announced looks like the closest thing to
>date:
>http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellp...nce-104893.php
>http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=1376
>
>pros: runs embedded linux, looks to be < $350, >4" display,
>touchscreen, quick boot
>cons: comes loaded with Opera as a web browser (major bummer)
>
>Has anyone found a similar niche device that looks like it fits this
>bill? (if you use your TV or a PDA or a Cell Phone to control your
>Squeezeboxen, good for you, but that's not what I'm shooting for) I
>gave the PepperPad a look (way too expensive), and have considered
>ViewSonic AirDisplays (big, Microsoft-shackled).
>
>cheers,
>#!/ben
>
>
>
>

[mherger]

> this device that Nokia just announced looks like the closest thing to
> date:
> http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellp...nce-104893.php
> http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=1376

Wow! That's exactly what I've been (well, still am) waiting for! And I
wanted to develop this myself once I had won the bingo millions :-)

> pros: runs embedded linux, looks to be < $350, >4" display,
> touchscreen, quick boot
> cons: comes loaded with Opera as a web browser (major bummer)

I love Opera! What's your problem about it?

> Has anyone found a similar niche device that looks like it fits this

As I said I have been looking for something like this. What imho comes
closest might be the Simpad. But it's EOLed and on ebay still more or
(almost as) expensive then these 350$

> ViewSonic AirDisplays (big, Microsoft-shackled).

Do they still exist?

--

Michael

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<disclaimer>
I work at Nokia, I know someone who works in the group that works on
this product. I have no inside knowledge of anything having to do
with this product since I am in an entirely different division.
</disclaimer>

I've seen this thing and it's a very good looking device. Really
sharp screen and fun to use. I think I may be able to get one of
these to play with and I'd be glad to work with someone who is
smarter than I am about skins to make a perfect skin for it.

Anyone up for it?

Victor

On May 25, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Michael Herger wrote:

>> this device that Nokia just announced looks like the closest thing to
>> date:
>> http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellp...-770-internet-
>> appliance-104893.php
>> http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=1376
>>
>
> Wow! That's exactly what I've been (well, still am) waiting for!
> And I wanted to develop this myself once I had won the bingo
> millions :-)
>
>
>> pros: runs embedded linux, looks to be < $350, >4" display,
>> touchscreen, quick boot
>> cons: comes loaded with Opera as a web browser (major bummer)
>>
>
> I love Opera! What's your problem about it?
>
>
>> Has anyone found a similar niche device that looks like it fits this
>>
>
> As I said I have been looking for something like this. What imho
> comes closest might be the Simpad. But it's EOLed and on ebay still
> more or (almost as) expensive then these 350$
>
>
>> ViewSonic AirDisplays (big, Microsoft-shackled).
>>
>
> Do they still exist?
>
> --
>
> Michael
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Help translate SlimServer by using the
> StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)
>
>

[mherger]

> The only other device I've found which fits the bill is a Sharp Zaurus
> SL-5500 -- would need a WIFI card for it, but the whole shebang can be

That's exactly what I'm using now as a remote for the slimserver, to read
my mails without starting the computer or even to surf a little bit. But
the screen is simply too small. I'll be glad to pay some money for 800x480
compared to Zaurus' 320x240.

> had for under 200 from ebay these days. The big plus is that you get a
> keyboard.

Which is ok to enter URLs or quickly run some commands in the ssh client
;-). But I wouldn't seriously consider it to write mails.

> Yes, I realize this is sold as a PDA, but let's face it -- it's much
> more than that -- it's an ultraportable Linux box.

When I first read about those guys who run slimserver on devices like the
Linksys NSLU2 I thought about trying to install it on my Zaurus. Then I
read about those hours you need to install perl... and gave up before I
even started :-). But having ssh VNC viewer & server samba client etc. on
a pda is fun.

--

Michael

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[adhir]

> That's exactly what I'm using now as a remote for the slimserver, to
> read my mails without starting the computer or even to surf a little
> bit. But the screen is simply too small. I'll be glad to pay some
> money for 800x480 compared to Zaurus' 320x240.
>
When you say "too small", you mean for reading mail and surfing?
Because I think it should be more than sufficient for controlling
slimserver -- especially if someone makes a skin/theme for slimserver
which is friendly to that size screen.

>> had for under 200 from ebay these days. The big plus is that you get
>> a keyboard.
>
>
> Which is ok to enter URLs or quickly run some commands in the ssh
> client ;-). But I wouldn't seriously consider it to write mails.
>
But it sure would be nice to search for songs. I can't stand trying to
key song/album/artist names on the slim remote. It's the main thing
which keeps me from using squeezebox more than I do.

[bklaas]

Another intriguing thought about the Nokia 770--it claims support for playing mp3s and the like. So then you could run slimserver in a browser, xmms (or some such thing) pointing to the slimserver stream, headphones on your melon, and boom! you've got a pretty fancy portable player! well, at least until you get out of WiFi range...

Or...you can use your 770 to control your multiple squeezeboxen that are all synced and you've got poor man's Sonos!

man, so many possibilities. now if i can just squirrel away the $$ to buy the thing...

as for Opera-- It's been so long since I've used it I should back off of my original statement, but my beefs with that browser used to be: Poor Standards Support (CSS and Javascript particularly), Not Free (looks like that has changed though), Closed Source, Non-Intuitive UI (for me). I just looked at their website though and the screenshots alone tell me it's come a long way. I'm a very devout Firefox fan though, and with it's uber-flexibility I'd be a difficult sell on Opera. I would think Firefox could run as lean and mean or more so than Opera on the 770.

btw- great discussion on this thread, folks. I like seeing active threads about stuff other than "my squeezebox don't work" and "DRM sucks" (it does, but that's not interesting).

cheers,
#!/ben

[radish]

Opera is easily as standards compliant as Firefox, and it runs lighter (which is obviously important for embedded type devices). In many ways it's actually more customizable and tweakable than Firefox, unless you're happy getting your hands mucky with XUL. The UI is a little different (I don't like it personally), and it is closed source. There is a free (ad supported) version, and a pay (no ads) version for Windows, though I would imagine the version for the Nokia will be licensed and thus ad-free. I work in a team full of web geeks and I'd say we're are split about 70/30 ff/opera.

[mherger]

> When you say "too small", you mean for reading mail and surfing?

Surfing. Opera's "small screen rendering" does a nice job, but it's not
always that handy.

> Because I think it should be more than sufficient for controlling
> slimserver --

Oh, it is! I use it all the time with the handheld skin.

> especially if someone makes a skin/theme for slimserver which is
> friendly to that size screen.

Handheld has been developped for this. It uses only few images, very
little CSS (due to earlier Pocket IE not supporting it) and almost no
javascript. I'm really happy with it since the day it was contributed.
Almost all my plugins support it ;-)

>> Which is ok to enter URLs or quickly run some commands in the ssh
>> client ;-). But I wouldn't seriously consider it to write mails.
> But it sure would be nice to search for songs.

I have to admit that I rarely use the search. But the keyboard simplifies
any text editing, of course.

--

Michael

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[mherger]

> Another intriguing thought about the Nokia 770--it claims support for
> playing mp3s and the like. So then you could run slimserver in a
> browser, xmms (or some such thing) pointing to the slimserver stream,
> headphones on your melon, and boom! you've got a pretty fancy portable
> player! well, at least until you get out of WiFi range...

Far enough to listen to your music while hoovering your appartment :-)

> man, so many possibilities. now if i can just squirrel away the $$ to
> buy the thing...

I'll have the bucks by the day it sorts for those 350$ in _Switzerland_. I
bet they'll ask almost the double over here :-(.

> Poor Standards Support (CSS and Javascript particularly),

As radish stated correctly this is no longer an issue.

> though, and with it's uber-flexibility I'd be a difficult sell on
> Opera.

Flexibility is great with the desktop versions. Can't say this for the
copy I'm running on the Zaurus, though.

> I would think Firefox could run as lean and mean or more so than
> Opera on the 770.

I'm not so sure. Opera is quite a standard with small devices: they have
versions for many different mobile phones, techniques like "small screen
rendering" which optionally optimises the layout for small screens etc.
They have a lot of experience with small devices, that others simply don't
have. But I think there's a project working on a smaller footprint, small
devices optimised mozilla browser.

Well, 800x480 might outgrow the "small screen" category :-)

--

Michael

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