Slim Devices' crocodile in the bathtub

[JJZolx]

Originally Posted by JadeMonkee

But there is a market for less tech-savvy music listeners that Apple TV (and iPod/iTunes, for that matter) taps into, and Slim Devices could maybe muscle in on.

Less tech savvy than iTunes/iPod users? Now that's a scary thought.

[amgalitz]

Interesting discussion.

I've never been a fan of 'swiss army' devices, but there is at times a value to synergy. Now that battery life has improved, if I already had a phone with WIFI ability, I would actually purchase an app that would let me control or listen to my SC library around the house, especially if I could plug in headphones. I was actually thinking of suggesting a small device to drive headphones from the SC to SD. I have 3 SB2's and 1 SB1. I've been toying with getting a Sqeezebox Boom for working in the garage and yard but now am wondering about a SBC to plug into my electronic hearing protection. If my phone could do that then the Boom would be a sure bet.

I have not seen anyone mention this iPhone alternate that uses the Windows Mobile operating system:

http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchhd/overview.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/15463..._touch_hd.html
HTC Touch HD has a 3.8-inch WVGA (480x800) pixels touch sensitive display. It features a newer version of the TouchFLO 3D, Wi-Fi, aGPS, 3G and 5-megapixel camera into a 12mm slim body.

It looks to be available in the US 2009QTR1.

Now before I get flamed about windows, be mindful of the large body of software out there for such WM based PDA's and Smartphones. I have used over the years a string of such PDAs (currently Dell Axim x50v) to hold medical textbooks, drug interaction programs and a "peripheral brain" note taking program that syncs to my desktop. AFAIK there is no Apple, (and unfortunately) linux based alternative. The Palm architecture is significantly inferior in function. The Axim I have has a CompactFlash AND a SD (not sdhc) slot. It is multitasking. I can move my 2 and 4 GB SD cards with mp3's to my Garmin Nuvi and have trip music.

This new device as a larger and more detailed screen than the iPhone, good battery life, a standard headphone jack with by report decent sound, micro sdhc slot (so up to 32 GB) and a very good touch screen (even if resistive vs capacitive). I intend to seriously consider one to replace my aging Axim, unless something awful come out about them. However reviews have been very good for versions released out of US.

Clearly the PDA market is merging to the smartphone. Dell is out and my Axim is not longer supported by the notes software I have become dependent on. I suspect if I let my MS ActiveSync upgrade, I will loose desktop syncing as well. Up to the htc touchHD, no WM smartphone had a screen to match the size and clarity of a PDA like the AXIM x50/51v. This get very important when at times you begin to need reading glasses! <g>

I'm not an iPhone, iPod fan as their iTunes borders on viral behavior, wanting to take over my music library. I also prefer the more open formats of mp3 and flac. I have two servers running SC, a new one, and a very old one (10 y/o bx6 celeron 400). I still haven't figured out how to make my wife's ipod nano play nice with the SC library so I just copy over the files from the server onto her machine. I was given a wide screen nano a year ago and haven't even used it.

[pippin]

The HTC touch HD is quite cool.
Not as usable as the iPhone, but quite cool.

[amgalitz]

Cool it is. I'm cringing a bit to see how badly Verizon will cripple it when it comes out. I may end up switching carriers, but everywhere I go Verizon has great reception, while other carries last I checked seemed to have dead zones in half of my house! Go figure.

Usability is personal. I have software that only runs on WM that I have become dependent on for my profession so an iPhone is not very useful. I don't want too much from a PDA/phone: decent battery life and call reception, ability to run the professional support software I use. MP3 over a headset is useful, internet browsing is gravy and would mainly be usefull for syncing up databases. My stuff has to work if there is no internet.

I would prefer to migrate away from windows, but extensive searching has not yielded with the same functionality in the Linux, or mac world. It works out for people less locked in by their jobs to MS products.

That has always been the problem with Apple, if you did what they thought you needed to do it was great; if not well ... Thats why I've been exploring linux in Gentoo and unbuntu flavors. There are increasingly capable software packages and at times open source is MORE compatible than Microsoft with older MS files. I was a bit dissappointed though in OpenOffice 3's handling of Word 2003 files but hopefully that will improve. I want to migrate away from windows but in my profession as a corporate employee having to use ms office, MSActiveSync, cisco vpn, citrix, IE6 for remote access, it is looking much harder than I had hoped. Best I can hope for is to get something like VirtualBox running my XP and Office 2007 concurrent with a linux desktop

I've used Gentoo for years, and now debian/ubuntu for my home servers and they have been solid and reliable. Then Gentoo box once went 320+ days up before I had to bring it down for an upgrade. Thats on 10-11 year Bx6 motherboard and celeron 400. Latest debian kernel runs just fine on it as long as you don't try KDE or Gnome. XFCE is bit slow but usable and Thunar (even firefox) not bad over an SSH X session. Took forever for it to come back up as it insisted on checking every f...g filesystem (600G and DMA 33 IDE argh) So far, debian/unbuntu on the same box is working fine, up 3 weeks since finishing ubuntu install and seems to be running just as fast as with Gentoo. Of course, its all alot faster on the AMD 2.5Ghz/4GB ram box <G>.

[pippin]

Can't you buy one from another vendor and use it with verizon? Are you still bound to the phones that come from you mobile phone provider in the US?

That's what I did with my iPhone, I don't have an iPhone contract. Over here in Europe you can even buy them unlocked by Apple (thanks to the legislation in some EU countries). Expensive, but you get around the lousy contract.

Regarding OpenSource: Depends on what you want to do.
I run all my servers on Ubuntu and I love it for that.
Applications...Hm... I've tried - like in REALLY tried, for more than a year - to use OpenOffice professionally. Eventually I gave up and switched to an older MSOffice version (which is more stable than the new ones).
My main concern with a lot of OpenSource software is, it's not tested as well as professional software. You know, to test software REALLY, you need testers, not test users, because test users only follow their specific use cases.
Symptomatic for this are all new major versions of Firefox, Thunderbird and OppenOffice. Whenever a new version of those come out you can bet, that three days later the first fix comes out for something really essential that got completely broken....

Regarding usability: I like to rate that in "time to success" on a specific task for new and for experienced users (hard to make it right for both).
Plus maybe "being not so annoying".
And usually, these things REALLY are the hard part. Look at all the discussions around how to do this and that on SqueezeCenter or the SBC. And I swear I spend over 50% of the development time for iPeng just for tweaking those little details. Trying something, testing it, changing it, testing it again...
And at least on iPhone, Apple has got that pretty well - I'm not sooo happy with my Mac, there are still quite a few things I like better on Windows (let's start with the horrible keyboard of my MacBook, especially the German layout is close to unusable for development), but iPhone... phew. Had a Symbian smartphone before and the difference is just dramatic.

[amgalitz]

Well a quick google turned up that usually the phone has to either be 'white listed" VZ or be the same model or even branded for VZ. Since the phone really isn't out in the US yet, I'm content to limp with my PDA/Axim and separate little LG phone until spring. I'll see what is out then. I may even be eligible for a discount by then.

My point for the thread was that the htc touchHD might be worth writing apps for given its capabilities. I has clear distinctions from the iPhone such that I expect it will carve out a niche. Right off the bat, anyone using a Windows Mobile PDA in a corporate environment could dispense with their phone and with that gorgeous screen and some reading glasses do real web work for short stints; powerpoints with a bluetooth projector dongle

Yeah, I'm real happy with Ubuntu for servers. I've had some issues on the AMD64 box running the 64bit desktop intrepid but that's not a surprise. I allocate partitions for 3 OS installations and a separate /home and /grub. I also keep the data on separate drives. So its easy to switch between a hardy 8.04 desktop into one of the extra OS partitions, most likely a 32 bit version and compare how they work. I have a good idea now of which packages I'll actually use so the install will be cleaner. I also know more and won't muck up the conf files so much troubleshooting <G>.

Getting user interfaces right is a challenge and ongoing process and just when it seems to be there, the market, technology, regulations etc change!

I been resisting moving from Office2000, but the latest service pack at work, quietly removed the word 2000 compatibility open. Our IT department was surprised when we could no longer find it on the menu. I had hoped OpenOffice would step in but I work on regional documents that use features in Word2003 it doesn't seem to support. Oh well, NewEgg has 3 license copies of OFFICE 2007 home and student for $70 right now and I've just sent Redmond some green. It doesn't have Outlook but I'm migrating to Google apps for mail and calender anyway. That's were the WM and internet connectivity of the phone might pay off unless VZ kills it. If so then that is a business opportunity for other carriers.

I've just gotten spousal approval for a SqueezeBox Boom. She bought the idea that portable tunes increased chances of workshop and house project completion. She also like the idea of synchronized tunes outside during parties. I love the whole integrated SC, SB networked concept. After this, I'll have portable tunes in the garage shop, outside, living room, Tv room, master bedroom with a SB1 left over for somewhere. Now it would be way cool to control it from my phone too, (yes, iPhones do that now, but I need WM).

Actually, come to think of it, has anyone written an app to control SC from a WIndows Mobile wifi capable PDA like the Axim or HP IPAQ? that would port right over to the HTC TouchHD?

Oh yes. Saab top them all!
I think that's because they can only bring over the spare part with Reindeer sledges when the Baltic sea freezes over

and you forgot about the Reindeer having to go through agricultural quarantine at the border.

cheers

[Browny]

From what I've seen so far SD have been very good at listening to what their customers have been asking for on these forums and developing it. I'm sure all these threads are being watched with interest.

For me the Controller was a response to everyone banging on about the Sonos remote. Same with the Boom - it came along because enough people asked for it.

I'm sure that SD will be looking at iPeng et al with great interest (not least because its once more killed off Sonos's USP). I agree that there should be an official version and suspect that one could come in time.

As to iPod/iPhone vs Controller I see these as very separate products that can be made to overlap on functionality, but they cater to very different markets. I think the case for overlapping customer bases is suspect at best - simple reason being if you're an "average" iPod user then your first port of call for home audio will be a dock for the iPod rather than a network audio player.

The main beef I have about the Controller is that its too expensive to justify (for me). That's not to say that I don't think its a superb bit of kit, but given the myriad of other ways I have of controlling my SB3 its just not worth it. I'd rather spend the money on a Boom!

I don't have an iPod either for similar reasons - its a cool bit of kit, but the only reason I would buy one is because I needed a portable MP3 player. My BlackBerry does this just fine (btw Flipside on the BB is excellent since it scrobbles to Last.fm) and I got it "free" with my job. Again I'd rather spend my money on a Boom!

Can you guess what I want for Christmas??

[dennis55]

"Job Security", would be a very nice pressie Browny in your profession....
dennis

Originally Posted by Browny

From what I've seen so far SD have been very good at
listening to what their customers have been asking for on these forums and developing it. I'm sure all these threads are being watched with interest.

For me the Controller was a response to everyone banging on about the Sonos remote. Same with the Boom - it came along because enough people asked for it.

I'm sure that SD will be looking at iPeng et al with great interest (not least because its once more killed off Sonos's USP). I agree that there should be an official version and suspect that one could come in time.

As to iPod/iPhone vs Controller I see these as very separate products that can be made to overlap on functionality, but they cater to very different markets. I think the case for overlapping customer bases is suspect at best - simple reason being if you're an "average" iPod user then your first port of call for home audio will be a dock for the iPod rather than a network audio player.

The main beef I have about the Controller is that its too expensive to justify (for me). That's not to say that I don't think its a superb bit of kit, but given the myriad of other ways I have of controlling my SB3 its just not worth it. I'd rather spend the money on a Boom!

I don't have an iPod either for similar reasons - its a cool bit of kit, but the only reason I would buy one is because I needed a portable MP3 player. My BlackBerry does this just fine (btw Flipside on the BB is excellent since it scrobbles to Last.fm) and I got it "free" with my job. Again I'd rather spend my money on a Boom!

Can you guess what I want for Christmas??

[Browny]

Originally Posted by dennis55

"Job Security", would be a very nice pressie Browny in your profession....
dennis

Hmmm...very true - the banking sector is not the best place to be right now. Although at present I think the same could be said for a lot of people.

[amgalitz]

As to iPod/iPhone vs Controller I see these as very separate products that can be made to overlap on functionality, but they cater to very different markets. I think the case for overlapping customer bases is suspect at best - simple reason being if you're an "average" iPod user then your first port of call for home audio will be a dock for the iPod rather than a network audio player.

I quite agree. Same for a SD app that ran on a large screen (3.5 - 3.8") Windows Mobile PDA (Like IPAQ or HTC TouchHD). I already have a WIFI capable pDA running windows mobile, if I could download an inexpensive app for it to give it some SC like function I would and likely get a SqueezeBox Receiver or two. That availability would not have stopped me from getting a SC since they serve somewhat different uses. More ways to control the whole SB, SC system makes placing more SB Receivers around the house easier and less expensive. I'd see people interested in placing more music delivery points first, then upgrading the ways to control them. The SC is very nice, although I actually like the bigger screen of something like an Ipaq, iPhone or htc touchHD.

As more WM large screen format smartphones get deployed by companies and bought by professionals, people could have a could portable controller not dependent on a SC running on a pc even. That would drive the core of selling the music delivery points (SB, SB Boom, transporter which is really the core). I want music first in more places, then better control. After a while, using a phone/PDA as the controller will be a hassle and having a nice remote at a generally known location (read charge cradle) and better UI will draw sales me thinks.

Consider this too, who is likely to be using these more sophisticated, larger screen devices? Older professionals who need larger screens and technophiles, not a bad demographic. People who don't understand why 20-100 gb in not enough to hold all their music are less likely to be SC/SB customers anyway. They are happy with ~100K vbr mp3 quality. With soon to be 32GB micro SDHC you do not need a distributed music system like the SC since you would just duplicate the entire library at each delivery point. If you want lossless codecs of high quality music, at least for the next few years you need larger storage either in a single server or meshed multiple servers.

The SC, SqueezeNetwork system also has the seamless use of internet sources. That is just as important IMHO as personal music storage. In 5 years we likely will be able to carry our whole Flac(etc) lossless library on our pocket devices anyway. Internet Radio/music sources lets someone else be the DJ and allows for the discover of new music. Better interaction with this and likely video delivery will be needed for SD longer term survival.