Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com

[fallenguru]

On 28 June 2012 18:18, aubuti
<aubuti.5evnrb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> In fact, you may have it turned around: manufacturers are increasingly
> emphasizing online streaming services because that _is_ what
> growing numbers of people want.
The cynic in me says that manufacturers pretty much produce what they
want and then market it until it sells.

> I've since found the on-demand services like MOG to be great for
> trying out music to see if it's worth buying the CD, [...]
Yes, that's true. The quality is fine for trying something out and for
mobile listening, but that's all I use mine for. It's not just the
audio quality but the inconsistent, incomplete or just plain wrong
tags as well. I realize that the streaming services might be all "the
masses" want, it's just that they don't need a Squeezebox for that.
Heck, a decent A/V reciever or NAS / media harddrive will do that.
>From a mass market perspective Squeezeboxes are expensive, complicated
and "one more box" - I'd much rather Logitech would stop trying to
compete there and try to place them in the premium home stereo market
....

On 28 June 2012 23:40, sebp <sebp.5ew2nz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> As a side note regarding privacy, when you install LMS, you're
> prompted whether or not you accept it to send anonymous usage
> statistics to Logitech.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't asked anything, i'm using the Debian
packages, though. Anyway, anonymous statistics don't bother me.


As for Logitech not being the biggest problem, that's also true. But
one has to draw the line somewhere. Maybe I'm just pissed off that one
of the last areas of my life that was blissfully Internet- and
tracking-free (listening to music) is going to be "invaded" as well -
and without (to me) added value.

Since the registration *can* be bypassed easily the problem is of a
philosophical nature anyway. :-)

[toby10]

..... it's just that they don't need a Squeezebox for that. Heck, a decent A/V reciever or NAS / media harddrive will do that......

Ok, then why don't you simply use those for your streaming needs? Maybe because those "solutions" are clunky, confusing, limited, not user friendly?
I'll bet many of the reasons you prefer a SqueezeBox for your local music also applies to why many prefer the same hardware for online content.
This is why dedicated devices like Sonos & SqueezeBox have been so successfull, they just do it better and offer more, in both local music & online content.
This is why you previously chose and are now looking to buy again.... a SqueezeBox.

[Mnyb]

Ok, then why don't you simply use those for your streaming needs? Maybe because those "solutions" are clunky, confusing, limited, not user friendly?
I'll bet many of the reasons you prefer a SqueezeBox for your local music also applies to why many prefer the same hardware for online content.
This is why dedicated devices like Sonos & SqueezeBox have been so successfull, they just do it better and offer more, in both local music & online content.
This is why you previously chose and are now looking to buy again.... a SqueezeBox.

Yes it mixes and matches rather well

Not many systems can have a playlist of local files and tunes from services like spotify/mog/bandcamp together and play this synchronised on all your players

[fallenguru]

On 29 June 2012 10:20, toby10
<toby10.5ewwan (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>> ..... it's just that they don't need a Squeezebox for that. Â*Heck, a
>> decent A/V reciever or NAS / media harddrive will do that......
>
> Ok, then why don't you simply use those for your streaming needs?
>Â*Maybe because those "solutions" are clunky, confusing, limited, not
> user friendly?

Exactly. But I'm not a good mass market example in the audio space, am
I? I love my €2.000 hi-fi setup, many audiophiles will spend way more
than that - and yet the notion of a dedicated stereo is ludicrous to
(almost) all my friends and acquaintances. For them, a €400 all-in-one
is the pinnacle of high-end. What I'm saying is, the mass market won't
care about clunky interfaces if people don't know any better and it's
fuctionality that came for "free" with some other device. Marketing
could fix this, but there isn't any for the Squeezeboxes, is there?
It's pretty much word-of-mouth at this point.
That said, if I was interested (solely) in streaming from the
internet, the receiver would do just fine. The clunkiness only starts
when a local library comes into play.

[toby10]

Then buy a Transporter? The "non-mass market" SqueezeBox?

The mass market helps keep your Touch at a reasonable price. Take away it's mass market appeal and your very limited market for such a device would quadruple the price for the same hardware.

Just as the "mass market" wants USB and networking on their HDTV's. For those that don't want these features, just ignore them and concentrate on the features important to you (picture quality? price? number/type of inputs?). But even those that ignore those "added" features benefit from the broader appeal of those features by sharing in the devices lower unit cost.

My father still laments that he can't buy a car with "just an AM radio". He doesn't listen to FM, nor does he have CD's or a digital music collection, nor does he use sat radio or HD radio. He just wants the type of radio with mechanical push buttons he had in his 1956 VW Bug. Every new car, the same complaint. But then every time I tell him "pops, I've told you, I can have my buddy retrofit an actual AM-only old school radio for $120, just say when" he won't cough up the dough.

Don't even get my dad started on cell phones and how some of their functionality is different from his land line phone. UGH!

Buy and enjoy your mass-market Touch, utilizing only the features & functions you desire, ignoring all those you don't want. In fact, if you have any trouble eliminating (hiding) all of the menu items you won't use, just ask in here.

[aubuti]

Then buy a Transporter? The "non-mass market" SqueezeBox?

Good point. And post #1 the OP lamented that no one is selling the TP. Maybe not in the OP's country, but it shouldn't be that hard to organize a purchase of a TP SE, which Logitech is currently selling in the US. He'll just need an intermediary.

[fallenguru]

On 29 June 2012 12:36, toby10
<toby10.5ex2lb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> The mass market helps keep your Touch at a reasonable price. >Â*Take away it's mass market appeal and your very limited market for
> such a device would quadruple the price for the same hardware.

You're missing the point I was trying to make. IMHO the Touch *doesn't
have* that much mass market appeal to begin with (the Radio might). If
it did it wouldn't be an also-ran in a market that Squeezeboxes
created. By now you've lost the mass market at "dedicated device for
music streaming". After all, there's DLNA and AirPlay. On the high(er)
end there's Sonos and various boxes by traditional hi-fi outfits,
whose potential customers wouldn't even consider anything by "crappy
computer speakers" Logitech.

The Touch was a bid to enter the mass market, true, with its touch
screen, color, embedded server, USB / SD connectivity - and maybe it's
cheaper because of that. But I'd much rather have a dumb SB2/3 with a
modern DAC, multi-channel support, maybe a bigger VFD. Can't be that
much more expensive.

The Squeezeboxes badly need a fresh model line up with two or three
well-defined niches, a new brand and a marketing campaign, but I think
we all know that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting a Touch - it is still the best
Squeezebox currently available, even if it doesn't fit my needs very
well.

[sebp]

I'm pretty sure I wasn't asked anything, i'm using the Debian
packages, though. Anyway, anonymous statistics don't bother me.

As I'm also using Debian, and just did the test, I'm pretty sure you were, because that's how the web interface looks like right after the package installation:

Note that skipping mysb.com registration doesn't disable sending anonymous statistics to Logitech.
You explicitely need to unckeck the "Help improve..." box to disable them.

[sebp]

But I'd much rather have a dumb SB2/3 with a
modern DAC, multi-channel support, maybe a bigger VFD. Can't be that
much more expensive.

VFDs have always been the pricier component of the old gen Squeezebox models (and also the one that makes it more expensive today to repair an old SB rather than buying a brand new Touch).

Lots of people I've been reading from would like a Touch but find it a bit expensive to their taste.
Expensive, yes... although most of us know that even at 300 <put your currency here>, it's a real bargain.

[fallenguru]

On 29 June 2012 21:38, sebp <sebp.5exron (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> As I'm also using Debian, and just did the test, I'm pretty sure you
> were, because that's how the web interface looks like right after the
> package installation:
> [image: http://squeeze.le-seb.net/lms-privacy.png]

Nope, never seen anything like it. My Slimserver install is years old,
the configuration even older, migrated from when I ran code direct
from the repository. From time to time I have to cajole it into using
the server's own MySQL install and audio decoders, but other than
that, no maintenance neccessary. It never ever crashes without
provocation, either. (Trying to transcode 24/96 FLAC into 24/48 FLAC
with only 256 MB RAM for the VM was provocation, apparently. ^^) A
perfect example for never touching a running system.
Anyway, I'm guessing this setup wizard only shows for new installs
and/or in the new skin. But the setting might well have been enabled
silently ... ... ... no it hasn't. Everything is just fine :-)

BTW, how open is the code that runs on the Touch? Can we (change and)
recompile everthing from the kernel up or is it mostly binary blobs?
(Yay for most OT thread of the year! )


On 29 June 2012 21:51, sebp <sebp.5exs8n (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> VFDs have always been the pricier component of the old gen
> Squeezebox models
They also have the advantage of actually being readable from 2-3 m,
even with less than perfect eyesight. I just tried that with my phone
- the screen is about the same size - no dice, even when zoomed in all
the way.
Not that it matters that much, I never use the SB2's screen for
navigating anymore, but being able to see at a glance what's playing
is nice. That and the clock.