Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com

[fallenguru]

On 27 June 2012 10:39, chill <chill.5et7so (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> I just tried this with a fresh-out-of-the-box Touch [...] the first thing it
> did after I entered my wifi password was to prompt me to download
> the latest firmware. At this stage I had not told the unit anything
> about my local LMS setup, [...]
>
> I could not get the 'swipe right at the help screen' to work, but I DID
> eventually manage to bypass the MySB setup using the remote. [...]
> It is indeed the right arrow - as soon as the MySB login screen
> comes up, press AND HOLD the right arrow, and it takes you to the
> home screen, from where you can set up your LMS IP address.

Now *that* is great news, thank you!



To the people who don't get it. You don't have to, really, but I'll still bite.

> I don't think they were trying to take away any functionality with
> having the mysqueezebox.com option.

The operative word being /option/. With my SB2 it was optional. I
could set it up or not. Now it's presented as a neccessary part of
setup, without an obvious or even documented way to bypass it. If
there was a skip button I wouldn't be complaining (as loudly).

> They were trying to accommodate users who couldn't have/didn't
> want to have a computer/full server running.
>
> [...]
>
> Especially if one considers that probably the fastest growing part of
> the market doesn't have a local music collection, but instead listens
> to streaming services.

That's probably true, and rather sad. I still think people should buy
products based upon what they want, not based upon market trends.

For that use case the Squeezeboxen are pretty much overkill, IMHO. The
revolutionary thing about them was that they finally made music stored
digitally on a computer available to the living room stereo / in other
more natural listening situations (SBB, Radio). But hey, to each his
own. I just don't like the classic functionality to take a back seat.

The problem is, Squeezeboxes are *good* at streaming music over the
LAN from a local server, they aren't very good at streaming from the
'net without one. SqueezeNetwork (what's now mysb.com) was a band-aid
neccessary for the older Squeezeboxes, that were dumb audio terminals
by design. Even back then people were constantly complaining about
connection problems, drop outs and other network problems - and they
still are, just read the Touch's worse Amazon reviews. That's what you
get when you try to run software that was designed for the LAN over a
WAN. Really, if I wanted something for streaming I'd buy something a
lot cheaper with enough "brain" to handle everything onboard. The
Touch certainly could do that, since it can even run (well, walk) a
stripped-down server, but it still depends on mysb.com for stand-alone
streaming. Why? There certainly isn't a technical reason ...

> Just register and save some time and struggling, you have obviously
> already registered on this forum so Logitech already have your
> e-mail so I don't understand the issue with giving them it once more.

Mailing list, but yes. It isn't about the e-mail, though, not at all.
It's about being able to match a physical device (and its location) to
a person. They can track each (registered) Squeezebox sold, including
re-sales. They can black-list Squeezeboxes for whatever reason. They
can track what music you listen to, when and for how long. They know
what services you subscribe to. They can track what CDs you buy and
rip ... and sell all that data to ad companies. Sorry, but I do not
want that.
Of course the local server could log all this data and phone home,
too. It doesn't, though, and even if it did, without the registration
the data remains anonymous. Mysb.com on the other hand collects all
that and more during normal operation, as a matter of course. Do they
sell any data? Probably not. Won't they ever? Noone can say.

All that, and I just don't like to be strong-armed into things.

Chris

[chill]

On 27 June 2012 10:39, chill <chill.5et7so (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> I just tried this with a fresh-out-of-the-box Touch [...] the first thing it
> did after I entered my wifi password was to prompt me to download
> the latest firmware. At this stage I had not told the unit anything
> about my local LMS setup, [...]
>
> I could not get the 'swipe right at the help screen' to work, but I DID
> eventually manage to bypass the MySB setup using the remote. [...]
> It is indeed the right arrow - as soon as the MySB login screen
> comes up, press AND HOLD the right arrow, and it takes you to the
> home screen, from where you can set up your LMS IP address.

Now *that* is great news, thank you!

Chris - a small correction. After I posted I realised I'd typed 'right arrow' when I meant 'left arrow' - it's the left arrow button that escapes the MySB registration process. I guess corrections don't necessarily come through when you follow this forum as a mail list.

[Mnyb]

Mysb.com proxies a lot of encryption handshaking for the more paranoid services that would not allow such module sitting in the open source local server so it acts as middle man .

Possibly a lot more could be moved to local servers as the whole tune-in indexing of internet radio ,but it is on mysb.com as it is now.

Fyi almost all other internet radios do use a server backend of some kind but they just don't tell you, and you don't have a personal login where you can log in and manage some rudimentary settings.
And certainly not a gruop of syncable players

for example all machines with a reciva chip uses a service from reciva , and there are others to .

And for the buggines , Eu server backend seems to finally cope with the load (that was a major pita for years ).
Connection problems etc is often down to the same weakness as in a local server situation it only works as good as your network and server and add to that shoddy internet connections,
and people try to use 3G usb sticks as "internet" ?

And to kick in an open door ,they spend about 1/10 of dev resources they should have on the software it could be doing so much more and better , but we know that it's a given ,so nowadays I only whine when it reach a new bottom level of some kind.

[Mnyb]

I'm also starting to feel like an oldtimer .

The actual work of ripping and properly tag music is to much for most people , they wan't music on tap

So thats how it is, having local files at all is the minority thing

[aubuti]

> They were trying to accommodate users who couldn't have/didn't
> want to have a computer/full server running.
>
> [...]
>
> Especially if one considers that probably the fastest growing part of
> the market doesn't have a local music collection, but instead listens
> to streaming services.

That's probably true, and rather sad. I still think people should buy
products based upon what they want, not based upon market trends.

Don't be sad. There isn't anything in either of those comments (the 2nd one was mine) suggesting people are buying something they don't want because they are following market trends.

In fact, you may have it turned around: manufacturers are increasingly emphasizing online streaming services because that _is_ what growing numbers of people want. Of course the manufacturers are going to follow the money.

Personally, I bought my SBs for the same reason as you, to stream my local music to anywhere in the house, or even outside. And that's still what they do best and the functionality hasn't take a back seat at all. But I've since found the on-demand services like MOG to be great for trying out music to see if it's worth buying the CD, to the point where I don't mind the costs, be they $5/mo or less privacy about what I listen to. Obviously ymmv.

[erland]

> Just register and save some time and struggling, you have obviously
> already registered on this forum so Logitech already have your
> e-mail so I don't understand the issue with giving them it once more.

Mailing list, but yes. It isn't about the e-mail, though, not at all.
It's about being able to match a physical device (and its location) to
a person. They can track each (registered) Squeezebox sold, including
re-sales. They can black-list Squeezeboxes for whatever reason. They
can track what music you listen to, when and for how long. They know
what services you subscribe to. They can track what CDs you buy and
rip ... and sell all that data to ad companies. Sorry, but I do not
want that.
Of course the local server could log all this data and phone home,
too. It doesn't, though, and even if it did, without the registration
the data remains anonymous. Mysb.com on the other hand collects all
that and more during normal operation, as a matter of course. Do they
sell any data? Probably not. Won't they ever? Noone can say.

All that, and I just don't like to be strong-armed into things.

I do understand your concerns, I'm just saying that you are tracked anyway, so a mysqueezebox.com registration won't make it much worse than it already is.
I would be much more concerned about what kind of information Google, Microsoft, Apple and similar companies can store about your habits when accessing Internet with your computer, tablet or phone. Without knowing your habits, I'm pretty sure Logitech isn't your main problem regarding privacy, I'm also pretty sure their privacy policy is pretty clear about that they don't do most of the things you fear they do, especially not without explicitly asking you for permission first.

If you only use mysqueezebox.com during initial setup, all they will be able to collect are which device you own, where you are located and connect that to your e-mail address. If you use a hotmail e-mail address it doesn't really say them much. You can even register separate mysqueezebox.com accounts with separate e-mails for each Squeezebox you own if you prefer to get really anonymous.

However, it's your choice, as described previously in the thread it's possible to get around it if you prefer that, it's just requires some extra time and struggling so I would personally recommend you to accept the mysqueezebox.com registration and after the initial setup connect the Squeezebox to your local server and forget that mysqueezebox.com exist.

[JohnSwenson]

Just to reiterate what others have said, mysqueezebox.com is NOT repeat NOT used in anyway when you connect the Touch to your local server and play files located on that server. It will be used for certain online services as Erland mentioned. Going directly to internet radio stations will also not use mysqueezebox.com.

The reason you are asked to login when inittially starting the Touch is to get the latest firmware, what is in it out of the box is almost useless. IF you are willing to load the firmware from an SD card or USB stick you never have to have the Touch connect to the internet, period.

John S.

[Mnyb]

Was going to say something then I googled project echelon and both safari and Facebook crashed on my iPad , where is my tinfoil.. Spooky

[sebp]

The reason you are asked to login when inittially starting the Touch is to get the latest firmware, what is in it out of the box is almost useless.

Look back at what chill said a page ago: his brand new Touch upgraded its firmware before asking him for a mysb.com account.
It's not the reason it asks you for a mysb.com account.

As a side note regarding privacy, when you install LMS, you're prompted whether or not you accept it to send anonymous usage statistics to Logitech.
I guess that's how Logitech could get such good figures on the Squeezebox user base on different occasions (which system they run SBS/LMS from, local music vs online services usage, and so on...).

[Mnyb]

Look back at what chill said a page ago: his brand new Touch upgraded its firmware before asking him for a mysb.com account.
It's not the reason it asks you for a mysb.com account.

As a side note regarding privacy, when you install LMS, you're prompted whether or not you accept it to send anonymous usage statistics to Logitech.
I guess that's how Logitech could get such good figures on the Squeezebox user base on different occasions (which system they run SBS/LMS from, local music vs online services usage, and so on...).

If you integrate your local LMS with mysqueezebox.com it is also exposed as a server setting that you can turn on and off as you like .