Upgrading the clocks in the SBT - is it necessary

[stop-spinning]

I ask this because some are saying that putting a re-clocker (such as the so called excellent ones from Empirical Audio) make a huge improvement to the SQ of the Touch. This, to me, means that the clocks in the SBT are not of hi-end quality so an intermediary device such a high quality re-clocker needs to be installed to elevate the music performance for an "audiophile" when connected to an outboard DAC.

If this is the case, is it not cheaper to just get the clocks upgraded inside the SBT (if necessary), because that Empirical Audio stuff is expensive (but might be worth it I guess).

Other than that does Async USB mean you conveniently totally bypass the internal clocks altogether so don't need a helping hand in-between from Empirical and the likes (if you have a good async USB DAC like the MDAC?).

Thanks everyone.

[Hofstede]

My 2 cents: All that talk about changing the clocks in the Touch is humbug. The Touch is fine as it is. Don't waste your money.

[garym]

Necessary? Certainly not. Useful as a high end mod? doubtful.

[Mnyb]

I

Other than that does Async USB mean you conveniently totally bypass the internal clocks altogether (if you have a good async USB DAC like the MDAC?).

Thanks everyone.

Thats the general idea with async usb .
it was designed for use with computers as source in mind .

Computers can have magnitudes worse performance than Touch especially laptops on thier spdiff ,if they even have spdiff or toslink ?
And you get a separate "soundcard" that you use with music programs and don't have all those windows sounds etc .

Touch performance is not that bad as digital transport Stereophile has some god measurements to show on it , it can of-course be improved on .
It's on par with a decent CD-transport

But given that and modern well designed dac's ability to copy with and reclock almost any source . You are most likely not able to hear the improvement .
As with CD transport you don't need the most expensive $$$ high end transports to have "good enogh" performance so that the DAC can do it's thing and the outcome would be identical sound .

Imo Touch is the source you need for 2ch music .

IF you have one off the better USB only DAC's that out perform Touch's own DAC (this is not a given look in the EDO treads and see what people actually tries to use, you exemplified with the MDAC it migth be one of the DAC's up to it ) , you can use Triodes EDO app to be able to use USB .

If you have a DAC with multiple inputs it would be a toss-up it entirely up to that DAC's design which input that actually performs best (what happens internally after the async-USB ? )


Also , it is naive to trust the tweoko industry it is not a given that a mod or add on product actually improves the situation at all , the clock may for example be better but the application in circuit is probably at least as important .
A circuit as designed as a whole modding by sticking random "audiophile" components into it is not a good method if don't know the implications for the design .

Imo to be able to mod a circuit you must understand it's design from the gound up , in practice be able design a similar circuit yourself then you know what you are doing otherwise not.

[stop-spinning]

Looks like the Touch is OK as is... I know that an audiophile forum member elsewhere reported that adding an Empirical re-clocker between SBT and his DAC makes his system sound 'sublime'. Now sublime is a nice word is it not. So as a result I wanted to find out what forum member here did to improve their Touch in a similar manner to make their Touch sound 'sublime'.

However, I do own a good USB DAC so knowing that by using async USB by way of the EDO applet I will be bypassing the clocks 'completely' in the Touch (just in case the clocks are not of audiophile standard) and using the ones in my external DAC instead. Isn't async USB great; no need to any fancy re-clocking devices in the middle - because all these re-clocking devices do is offer better quality 'clocks' for the downstream connecting DAC. Why bother when you can use the clocks directly in the DAC itself.

[Pascal Hibon]

A good “upgrade” to the Touch can be a decent DAC. The clock inside the Touch is not that bad. John Westlake (designer of the previous DacMagic DAC’s , the Audiolab M-DAC and other award winning gear) has tested the SBT and found that the clock is getting re-clocked inside the Touch. That is pretty amazing for a streamer at this price point. Re-clocking is something you’d expect on high-end gear. So, don’t worry about the Touch clock.
In my main listening setup I’m using the SBT with the M-DAC. The SBT is connected with optical SPDIF to the M-DAC. Works perfect and the sound quality is excellent.

[stop-spinning]

Thanks Pascal - good to know. However with the MDAC you have the opportunity to try the EDO applet - you can alway try, then revert back to how it was if necessary. Who knows, the sound quality might go from 'excellent' to 'sublime'.

[SBGK]

I ask this because some are saying that putting a re-clocker (such as the so called excellent ones from Empirical Audio) make a huge improvement to the SQ of the Touch. This, to me, means that the clocks in the SBT are not of hi-end quality so an intermediary device such a high quality re-clocker needs to be installed to elevate the music performance for an "audiophile" when connected to an outboard DAC.

If this is the case, is it not cheaper to just get the clocks upgraded inside the SBT (if necessary), because that Empirical Audio stuff is expensive (but might be worth it I guess).

Other than that does Async USB mean you conveniently totally bypass the internal clocks altogether so don't need a helping hand in-between from Empirical and the likes (if you have a good async USB DAC like the MDAC?).

Thanks everyone.

to provide a bit of balance to those who are happy with the sound of the unmodded touch

quality wise it seems to be

EA overdrive
EA offramp
EDO mods + reclocker - I use mf vlink 192, some have reported great things using the berkely usb/spdif
EDO mods + async usb dac

I have clock upgrade in my touch, not sure if the EDO mods have killed off the benefit of that upgrade though.

JohnSwenson has measured the touch clocks and thought that the clock upgrade was worthwhile

very few dacs have the async usb designed for SQ rather than a convenient way of getting a signal into the dac which is why reclockers work, even the new nad M51 dac benefits from an external usb/spdif over the usb input.

depends on your setup and requirements, for playback into a high resolving system you may notice a difference

it is a fast moving area, but not too expensive to try out different things.

[stop-spinning]

Wow SBGK - I've been looking at your blog - and its very interesting. For those of you who have replied about not bothering with tweaks take a look at SBGK's blog! This guy is a masterful tweaker and is getting results.

Of course you need a resolving system to appreciate the tweaks no doubt about it - but that's what an audiophile (I hate that word though - it sounds snooty) is all about - an audiophile is likely to have the appropriate loudspeakers and amplifier (and cables, and supports, and snake oil) to benefit from the tweaks.

For those with a less resolving system - just leave the SBT well alone because you are unlikely to hear any upgrade/tweako differences.

[Hofstede]

In my opinion all those wonderfull tweaks of SBGK only work in his imagination. Not many people on this forum take him serious. Some claims he makes are just impossible. I have added him to my ignore list long ago. But if you want to try out and test his suggestions please feel free....