There is life after the Soundcheck TT mods..

[rgro]

Absolutely not. Aerodynamics has its root in observation (of e.g. birds), trial and error, and the gradual collection of knowledge about various subjects, and eventually combining it all into one working framework. It was not stumbled upon by people blindly flailing around in the dark, as you seem to imply.

Aw, c'mon why so serious? To address just one point, in the interest of brevity......If you wanted to be so accurate you would have stated that, in fact, aerodynamics has its true roots in Archimedes' studies of fluids. However, prior to da Vinci, nobody had a clue about how to make non-bird objects fly and even da Vinci's crackpot ideas didn't see the light of day until the 19th century. The word, itself, didn't come into usage until the mid 1800's. Accretion of the 99% of true aerodynamical knowledge has, in a historical context, come in an astonishingly short period of time. And, back to the original point I took issue with: were everyone that has contributed to aeronautics imbued with your philosophy that "If you don't expect a tweak to make a change, you're not very likely to apply the tweak", I don't believe we'd have had anywhere near the progress (in aeronautics, electronics, or anything else, for that matter) that we enjoy. Not exactly people (or monkeys) blindly flailing, but, IMHO, people having the cajones to try stuff that, by all current wisdom, would have had no expectations of working.

But, clearly, we come at this whole issue from a vastly different perspective and will have to agree to disagree. Hence.....

I don't know, It feels like this discussion has run out of steam somehow.

I agree!!!!

[TheOctavist]

Yeah, sort of like the "racist south".

awesome. ignorant regional discrimination. it might actually funny if you weren't known for being a troll.

[TheOctavist]

Yeah, sort of like the "racist south".

awesome. ignorant regional discrimination. it might actually funny if you weren't known for being a troll. the north(and everywhere else in the world) is rife with racism too, they just try and cover it up. Ive been a southern boy all my life, and race relations simply aren't as bad as people think(mostly northerners or people that have never been to the south but want to paint us all as backwards thinking hillbillies. )

heres a southerner some folks may be familar with.

http://faulkner.lib.virginia.edu/

[Soulkeeper]

Aw, c'mon why so serious?

Because the rational answer (and how to reach it) matters. Even when the question is trivial.

And, back to the original point I took issue with: were everyone that has contributed to aeronautics imbued with your philosophy that "If you don't expect a tweak to make a change, you're not very likely to apply the tweak", I don't believe we'd have had anywhere near the progress (in aeronautics, electronics, or anything else, for that matter) that we enjoy.

Okay, then please explain me this: If the first flying machine builders didn't expect their tweaks to make a change, then why did they do them?

[rgro]

Because the rational answer (and how to reach it) matters. Even when the question is trivial.



Okay, then please explain me this: If the first flying machine builders didn't expect their tweaks to make a change, then why did they do them?

Since you asked: It's NOT rational in the sense that you seem to want it to be (why would any sane person try something if they expect it to fail?)....It's because they are/were insatiably curious---a trait shared by the most brilliant researchers and creatives. They neither believe in their own pre-conceptions nor anyone else's. The only way they can be truly convinced that something doesn't work is to actually try it. To their way of thinking, the cases (either expecting it will or it won't) are much more equal than the way in which most of us would think. Expecting that something won't work is, in these individuals' minds, vastly different from proving it won't----for them it's the same process as proving that something will [work]. They're just driven to find out.

Furthermore, sometimes during that process of finding out the "tweak", indeed, doesn't work, a new insight is gained or new information uncovered. Pure researchers have an intuitive understanding of this and follow lots of these, supposedly, silly paths for no other reason than to simply find out where the possible tangents may lead, irrespective of the final result.

It takes a rather unique and different personality to think and "do" this way--some would call it irrational and/or eccentric. And, while this leads to long stretches of going down dead-ends, blind alleys (and plane crashes) and, what others might call time-wasting, it's often the way to arrive at true genius. It's an interesting trait, since many of the most brilliant innovators have rather large and rough-edged egos. But, one of the more charming inconsistencies in all that is that they seem to lack the arrogance to believe in their own assumptions and pre-conceptions without self-proof.

On a more mundane level, how many of us might have spouses who are less than mechanically inclined? And who amongst us hasn't had the experience, when some gadget goes on the fritz, of said person---who in, our VERY humble opinion is ignorant---saying "why don't you try it this way"? Know-it-all spouse says, "it'll never work". But, because we love and indulge, we say,"alright, I'll give it a try, but it won't work, I can guaranty you that." And, then, it works.

[rgro]

awesome. ignorant regional discrimination. it might actually funny if you weren't known for being a troll. the north(and everywhere else in the world) is rife with racism too, they just try and cover it up. Ive been a southern boy all my life, and race relations simply aren't as bad as people think(mostly northerners or people that have never been to the south but want to paint us all as backwards thinking hillbillies. )

heres a southerner some folks may be familar with.

http://faulkner.lib.virginia.edu/

And, coming from someone who posts this nonsense:

"oddly enough my forum language settings have changed to french.
now when I go to post, or confront someone in the forum, the page runs away and surrenders.'

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...sations/page24

How much credence are we really supposed to give your statements above? But then, we stray very, very far off topic and I will stop before the mods give me the chop.

[Soulkeeper]

They neither believe in their own pre-conceptions nor anyone else's. The only way they can be truly convinced that something doesn't work is to actually try it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story

[rgro]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story

That's brilliant. You ask me for my explanation, I take the time to do that, and the best response you can come up with is to point to, of all things, a Wikipedia page that essentially says that my belief that human nature does not adhere to the same laws and parameters as, say, chemistry means that my explanation is nothing more than a flight in magic and fallacy? Really......!

There are 154,000 members----a number of them Ph.d's---in the American Psychological Assocation (the U.S. psychololgists' professional organization) who, in addition to me, would take great issue with you. Now, perhaps you believe that the study and science of psychology and human nature is a bunch of nonsense because, amongst other things, the science says that human behavior is *sometimes* unpredictable, inexplicable, non-logical, and irrational-----in a word, unscientific. And by all means you are certainly entitled to that belief. But, at this point, I really cannot imagine that we could have anything more to discuss on this subject----you know Mars vs. Venus and all that......

Besides, we really should get back to talking about music . Oh, never mind, the enjoyment (or lack thereof) of music is soooo etiological....

[darrenyeats]

In my opinion certain people have a deep need for a framework explaining everything in the world and the desire to educate others about it.

In the past these people ended up as religious types but these days a lot of them are hard core reductionist scientific types. A lot of them tend to be binary right and wrong techies. I think of them as fundamentalists...and it matters not a jot whether they are promoting Allah or string theory to explain EVERYTHING...fundies are fundies to me.

It is possible we don't understand very much about the true nature of those things we feel are most meaningful as humans. Yes even though science reveals we are stuck in a tiny corner of the universe in a sliver of history, which certainly suggests human affairs are of little lasting import, I like to feel there is something going on no scientist has found out. Maybe there is more to it than vibrating strings. Greater minds than I have argued both sides. Does all this make me a moron? I hope not.
Darren


Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

[rgro]

In my opinion certain people have a deep need for a framework explaining everything in the world and the desire to educate others about it.

In the past these people ended up as religious types but these days a lot of them are hard core reductionist scientific types. A lot of them tend to be binary right and wrong techies. I think of them as fundamentalists...and it matters not a jot whether they are promoting Allah or string theory to explain EVERYTHING...fundies are fundies to me.

It is possible we don't understand very much about the true nature of those things we feel are most meaningful as humans. Yes even though science reveals we are stuck in a tiny corner of the universe in a sliver of history, which certainly suggests human affairs are of little lasting import, I like to feel there is something going on no scientist has found out. Maybe there is more to it than vibrating strings. Greater minds than I have argued both sides. Does all this make me a moron? I hope not.
Darren


Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

Lovely, Darren. Personally, I find it not at all inconsistent that the quantum physicist believes in God or the biochemist writes poetry. Sometimes the most rational among us have the greatest insight regarding the inexplicable.

I'm probably a moron for even having been baited (perhaps even trolled???) into the argument. But, damn, those fundies tick me off!