There is life after the Soundcheck TT mods..

[pandasharka]

In the beginning I thought the TT mods made a difference - I tried TT2 & TT3 over the last several months. Then reverted to vanilla SBT and preferred it.

The conundrum, I think, is that every one of us has a different environment downstream of the SBT. And that includes possibly an external DAC, the listening environment etc. etc. I think of the TT mods as an olden days "add a graphic equalizer" solution to make up for specific shortfall in a specific listening environment. Not an across the boards panacea solution.

What "works" for one will not work for the next listener.

What is different with the SB approach compared to the other offerings - eg. Linn, Sonos is that their customers don't have the opportunity to TWEAK. The TT3.0 thread that rightly got canned was about 150 pages too long.

If the TT mods had been the silver bullet to move all SBT customers to a super extended listening level at this price point, Logitech surely would have implemented them already and taken Soundcheck out of the equation. (And the other tweaketters).

I wonder whether at corporate level Logitech would have preferred to offer a solution that was closed and offered zero opportunity to get under the hood, like the competition.

[pski]

In the beginning I thought the TT mods made a difference - I tried TT2 & TT3 over the last several months. Then reverted to vanilla SBT and preferred it.

The conundrum, I think, is that every one of us has a different environment downstream of the SBT. And that includes possibly an external DAC, the listening environment etc. etc. I think of the TT mods as an olden days "add a graphic equalizer" solution to make up for specific shortfall in a specific listening environment. Not an across the boards panacea solution.

What "works" for one will not work for the next listener.

What is different with the SB approach compared to the other offerings - eg. Linn, Sonos is that their customers don't have the opportunity to TWEAK. The TT3.0 thread that rightly got canned was about 150 pages too long.

If the TT mods had been the silver bullet to move all SBT customers to a super extended listening level at this price point, Logitech surely would have implemented them already and taken Soundcheck out of the equation. (And the other tweaketters).

I wonder whether at corporate level Logitech would have preferred to offer a solution that was closed and offered zero opportunity to get under the hood, like the competition.

After all this, improvement was never shown and the reason is obvious

[NoRoDa]

In the beginning I thought the TT mods made a difference - I tried TT2 & TT3 over the last several months. Then reverted to vanilla SBT and preferred it.

They do make a difference, they sound worse...
Me too prefer the "vanilla" SBT

The conundrum, I think, is that every one of us has a different environment downstream of the SBT. And that includes possibly an external DAC, the listening environment etc. etc. I think of the TT mods as an olden days "add a graphic equalizer" solution to make up for specific shortfall in a specific listening environment. Not an across the boards panacea solution.

I agree. The TT3.0 does make the sound different, and some may like it.
But an improvement it ain't!

What "works" for one will not work for the next listener.

Again, agreed. A dull system may enjoy the stock PSU and the TT3.0.

What is different with the SB approach compared to the other offerings - eg. Linn, Sonos is that their customers don't have the opportunity to TWEAK. The TT3.0 thread that rightly got canned was about 150 pages too long.
If the TT mods had been the silver bullet to move all SBT customers to a super extended listening level at this price point, Logitech surely would have implemented them already and taken Soundcheck out of the equation. (And the other tweaketters).
I wonder whether at corporate level Logitech would have preferred to offer a solution that was closed and offered zero opportunity to get under the hood, like the competition.

You can tweak all these products, but the SBT is sold in spades and cheap and that's why people started to tweak them.
Too bad all the tweaking only made differences and not improvements.
Maybe logitech knows exactly what they are doing?


Regards

[magiccarpetride]

They do make a difference, they sound worse...
Me too prefer the "vanilla" SBT

I think you may have fallen a victim of the expectation bias. All the available measurements point to the fact that there could not possibly be any difference between the 'vanilla' SBT and an SBT tweaked with TT3.0.

[pandasharka]

I think you may have fallen a victim of the expectation bias. All the available measurements point to the fact that there could not possibly be any difference between the 'vanilla' SBT and an SBT tweaked with TT3.0.

You may have more success baiting your hook on another thread.

[NoRoDa]

I think you may have fallen a victim of the expectation bias. All the available measurements point to the fact that there could not possibly be any difference between the 'vanilla' SBT and an SBT tweaked with TT3.0.

If you read my earlier posts, I was convinced that the TT3.0 made an improvement to my system.
If you read even harder, you will see that I still think the TT3.0 makes a difference. Not an improvement, though.
Closing my eyes made me see what the TT3.0 is, a tweak that does very little and at best a change. No universal improvement for all users.

Regards

[magiccarpetride]

If you read my earlier posts, I was convinced that the TT3.0 made an improvement to my system.
If you read even harder, you will see that I still think the TT3.0 makes a difference. Not an improvement, though.
Closing my eyes made me see what the TT3.0 is, a tweak that does very little and at best a change. No universal improvement for all users.

Regards

I know. But theoretically there is no chance that making changes on SBT could result in measurably audible differences. Or let me put it this way: we haven't seen any metrics that would corroborate such a hypothesis. So you claiming to be able to hear those differences can only raise eyebrows. Even if it's raised eyebrows with closed eyes.

[rgro]

I think mcr raises an interesting point. 99% of the talk here is about hearing differences that supposedly/theoretically do not exist. But I have rarely seen anybody discuss the mirror image, and what would seem equally possible: that, due to the same expectation biases and/or other mechanisms, we do not hear changes that are actually there. I wonder why studies haven't been done on that aspect----or maybe they have. If so, I'd be interested in reading one.

I know. But theoretically there is no chance that making changes on SBT could result in measurably audible differences. Or let me put it this way: we haven't seen any metrics that would corroborate such a hypothesis. So you claiming to be able to hear those differences can only raise eyebrows. Even if it's raised eyebrows with closed eyes.

[Soulkeeper]

But I have rarely seen anybody discuss the mirror image, and what would seem equally possible: that, due to the same expectation biases and/or other mechanisms, we do not hear changes that are actually there.

If you don't expect a tweak to make a change, you're not very likely to apply the tweak. Since you didn't apply the tweak in the first place, the change you didn't hear didn't exist either, so you'll most likely be correct in concluding that there is no significant change.

And in such a case, I can't see that there's anything to study. Or ... is it?

"The study of what's not there" ... hm, there should be a name for that. Oh right, there is. And as it happens, the human species has produced tons of books on the subject. So if you're interested, all you need to do is go to the nearest library and knock yourself out.

[magiccarpetride]

If you don't expect a tweak to make a change, you're not very likely to apply the tweak. Since you didn't apply the tweak in the first place, the change you didn't hear didn't exist either, so you'll most likely be correct in concluding that there is no significant change.

In Soviet Russia, you do not apply the tweak, the tweak applies you.