FLAC vs. Apple Lossles Audio Quality through Squeeze Box

[Mnyb]

Correct, yet still some low-end server hardware is not up to performing that task reliably.

yep I would consider 1core x86 some thing >1,2 gHz rock bottom .

But the most demanding transcoders in my experience is the ones for lossy formats like lame ? so a good server is also of interest if you want some of the more obscure web radio channels on old players

[Fozzy]

yep I would consider 1core x86 some thing >1,2 gHz rock bottom .

But the most demanding transcoders in my experience is the ones for lossy formats like lame ? so a good server is also of interest if you want some of the more obscure web radio channels on old players

Am I right in thinking MP3 is one of those formats that requires significantly more CPU power to encode than to decode? If so you could always avoid transcoding into it.

[Mnyb]

Am I right in thinking MP3 is one of those formats that requires significantly more CPU power to encode than to decode? If so you could always avoid transcoding into it.

Yes that what i do

but LMS has a bitrate limiter that uses LAME mp3 , it uses more cpu than SoX utility to transcode flac wav and hirez .

And it has quality settings , if you use a high quality setting for lame and bitrate limiting you will see a lot of cpu usage and the cpu must have fpu for it to work .

Some older x86 cpus has not so great fpu implementations and this shows in such case ARM just can't use LAME .

I noticed this in the pre spotify age when I used bitrate limiting to stream music to softsqueeze when staying at hotels or similar locations away from home with limited bandwith

There is an alternative shine encoder described in the wiki .

There are other use for the bitrate limiter it is actually very usefull if a wifi player has not so great reception or if you use in the garden far away from the AP etc.

[simes_pep]

The sound quality of Apple Lossless and FLAC will be the same, so the choice depends a lot on which "ecosystem" is more important for your purposes. If you are heavily invested in SBs, then FLAC is the way to go because Squeezeboxes play FLAC natively. If support for Apple products is important to you (AirPlay, iPods, etc) then you're better off with Apple Lossless. Personally, my library is mostly FLAC, but I keep a parallel lossy copy in MP3 format for use on iPod, laptop, and other mobile devices because on those I can easily live with the lower fidelity of MP3.

If you have several SBs and your comment on iTunes is that it is "bearable", then my reaction is why bother with Apple Lossless at all? There are ripping and management tools that support FLAC that you are likely to find much better than "bearable" (eg, dBpoweramp, Winamp, foobar2000, Media Monkey, and many others). So why go with Apple Lossless.

If your server is capable, there is nothing wrong with transcoding to Apple Lossless and sending to multiple players. But if the server doesn't have enough processing power then you can run into problems with dropouts as the server cannot transcode fast enough to send a steady stream.

As for what SBs play natively, this chart from the wiki has a good listing: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph...are_comparison It may not answer all your questions, but it's a good start.

Hi,

I wonder if I can get an answer within this thread.

I have an SB3 served by a LMS library running on ReadyNAS Duo - all works fine including 24/48 files streamed wirelessly.

However to continue to support my Apple devices (a number of iPhones, iPods, etc) I maintain files in a FLAC only directory and an Tunes library. Some files are present in both FLAC and ALAC but not all (ACC and mp3 are only present in the iTunes library).
Is there a way of telling LMS to only select the FLAC version if a duplicate is present?

Currently for a number of Albums I get duplicate track listing within the same album, so you just play the album you get each track played twice (FLAC then ALAC version), which is quite annoying.

I want to continue giving the SB3 the FLAC version if present, given its native support.

Thanks,
Simon.

[garym]

Hi,

I wonder if I can get an answer within this thread.

I have an SB3 served by a LMS library running on ReadyNAS Duo - all works fine including 24/48 files streamed wirelessly.

However to continue to support my Apple devices (a number of iPhones, iPods, etc) I maintain files in a FLAC only directory and an Tunes library. Some files are present in both FLAC and ALAC but not all (ACC and mp3 are only present in the iTunes library).
Is there a way of telling LMS to only select the FLAC version if a duplicate is present?

Currently for a number of Albums I get duplicate track listing within the same album, so you just play the album you get each track played twice (FLAC then ALAC version), which is quite annoying.

I want to continue giving the SB3 the FLAC version if present, given its native support.

Thanks,
Simon.

Best to simply have separate libraries for itunes and SB. Here's what I do. Although I don't use ALAC (I use only mp3 or aac for my ipods, etc.) you can simply do the same thing with your ALAC files as I do with the mp3/aac files below.

FLAC rips of albums are in:

x:\music\flac\artist\album\tracks......

songs that I have in only MP3 or AAC, I put here:

x:\music\mp3aacONLY\artist\album\tracks....

Songs that are mp3 COPIES of FLAC files (or in your case ALAC copies of FLAC files), I put in:

x:\mp3copy\artist\album\tracks....

OK. now everything is in correct directory. I use dbpoweramp to do a batch conversion of all my FLAC files to mp3 (you could do the same to batch convert all FLAC files to ALAC). It copies over all the tags and artwork automatically. And on these mp3 copies I add a field to the tag called %contentgroup% (which shows up as the field GROUPING in itunes). In this field I have the text "COPY FROM FLAC".

In Logitech Media Server, I tell LMS that my music library is located in x:\music, so this picks up all FLAC files and all the files that I only have in mp3/aac.

In itunes I tell it that my music library is

x:\music\mp3aacONLY\

So it automatically picks up those files. Then in itunes I select FILE > ADD FOLDER TO LIBRARY then select the directory:

x:\mp3copy\

This adds all those mp3 copies to my itunes library.

So now my itunes library has all my mp3/aac only files AND all my mp3 copies from FLAC. And my mp3 copies from Flac can be identified by sorting on the GROUPING field. So if I decide I want to make new versions of my mp3 copies (maybe a lower bit rate) I simply find these in itunes, sort on GROUPING, delete those files from library (and tell it also from harddrive). Now those files are gone and I can recreate all the FLAC mp3 copies and readd to library.

If I create a bunch of new mp3 copies from my FLAC files, I simply do the FILE > ADD FOLDER TO LIBRARY step again, selecting the x:\mp3copy\ directory. It will scan the entire directory, but only add the new files to your ITUNES. It won't double count the files that are already there.

All this sounds very complicated, but in reality it is quite simple (even with some other steps I left out that I also do related to adding replaygain values, modifying SOUNDCHECK values, etc.) And when done I have a LMS library with lossless files to the extent possible and I separately have an itunes library with all lossy files for use with my iphone/ipod/ipad. And I don't have duplicates in either the LMS or iTUNES libraries. And note that I do NOT select the "integrate with ITUNES" option in LMS. As from an LMS/ITUNES point of view I am NOT integrating the two.
_

[simes_pep]

Best to simply have separate libraries for itunes and SB. Here's what I do. Although I don't use ALAC (I use only mp3 or aac for my ipods, etc.) you can simply do the same thing with your ALAC files as I do with the mp3/aac files below.

FLAC rips of albums are in:

x:\music\flac\artist\album\tracks......

songs that I have in only MP3 or AAC, I put here:

x:\music\mp3aacONLY\artist\album\tracks....

Songs that are mp3 COPIES of FLAC files (or in your case ALAC copies of FLAC files), I put in:

x:\mp3copy\artist\album\tracks....

OK. now everything is in correct directory. I use dbpoweramp to do a batch conversion of all my FLAC files to mp3 (you could do the same to batch convert all FLAC files to ALAC). It copies over all the tags and artwork automatically. And on these mp3 copies I add a field to the tag called %contentgroup% (which shows up as the field GROUPING in itunes). In this field I have the text "COPY FROM FLAC".

In Logitech Media Server, I tell LMS that my music library is located in x:\music, so this picks up all FLAC files and all the files that I only have in mp3/aac.

In itunes I tell it that my music library is

x:\music\mp3aacONLY\

So it automatically picks up those files. Then in itunes I select FILE > ADD FOLDER TO LIBRARY then select the directory:

x:\mp3copy\

This adds all those mp3 copies to my itunes library.

So now my itunes library has all my mp3/aac only files AND all my mp3 copies from FLAC. And my mp3 copies from Flac can be identified by sorting on the GROUPING field. So if I decide I want to make new versions of my mp3 copies (maybe a lower bit rate) I simply find these in itunes, sort on GROUPING, delete those files from library (and tell it also from harddrive). Now those files are gone and I can recreate all the FLAC mp3 copies and readd to library.

If I create a bunch of new mp3 copies from my FLAC files, I simply do the FILE > ADD FOLDER TO LIBRARY step again, selecting the x:\mp3copy\ directory. It will scan the entire directory, but only add the new files to your ITUNES. It won't double count the files that are already there.

All this sounds very complicated, but in reality it is quite simple (even with some other steps I left out that I also do related to adding replaygain values, modifying SOUNDCHECK values, etc.) And when done I have a LMS library with lossless files to the extent possible and I separately have an itunes library with all lossy files for use with my iphone/ipod/ipad. And I don't have duplicates in either the LMS or iTUNES libraries. And note that I do NOT select the "integrate with ITUNES" option in LMS. As from an LMS/ITUNES point of view I am NOT integrating the two.
_

Ok, thanks for that.

At present I do use the LMS iTunes plug-in directed at \\iTunes directory, with the FLAC files in \\media\music, however I could extract the ALAC copies to a different directory say \\iTunes_only, and then get LMS to scan \\media\music with a embedded link to \\iTunes but not \\iTunes_only which can be added manually into iTunes, as you suggest.

Would need to ensure that the original iTunes content, which predated LMS/SBS usage is probably tagged and Artwork present etc.

Ok, let me consider, as it will take a while to unpick the directories. I was hoping there was a 'Duplicates Plug-in' that would apply some meta-management to the libraries, as I am sure I am not alone in this issue.

I also convert my FLAC into ALAC using dbPoweramp, but prefer to keep it in ALAC, as some files move onto iDevices in ALAC, and for some I use the auto-convert in iTunes to ACC.

Simon.

[garym]

Ok, thanks for that.

At present I do use the LMS iTunes plug-in directed at \\iTunes directory, with the FLAC files in \\media\music, however I could extract the ALAC copies to a different directory say \\iTunes_only, and then get LMS to scan \\media\music with a embedded link to \\iTunes but not \\iTunes_only which can be added manually into iTunes, as you suggest.

Would need to ensure that the original iTunes content, which predated LMS/SBS usage is probably tagged and Artwork present etc.

Ok, let me consider, as it will take a while to unpick the directories. I was hoping there was a 'Duplicates Plug-in' that would apply some meta-management to the libraries, as I am sure I am not alone in this issue.

I also convert my FLAC into ALAC using dbPoweramp, but prefer to keep it in ALAC, as some files move onto iDevices in ALAC, and for some I use the auto-convert in iTunes to ACC.

Simon.

yep, a "duplicates" plugin is often requested, but as far as I know, no one has written one....

[Mnyb]

Ok, thanks for that.

At present I do use the LMS iTunes plug-in directed at \\iTunes directory, with the FLAC files in \\media\music, however I could extract the ALAC copies to a different directory say \\iTunes_only, and then get LMS to scan \\media\music with a embedded link to \\iTunes but not \\iTunes_only which can be added manually into iTunes, as you suggest.

Would need to ensure that the original iTunes content, which predated LMS/SBS usage is probably tagged and Artwork present etc.

Ok, let me consider, as it will take a while to unpick the directories. I was hoping there was a 'Duplicates Plug-in' that would apply some meta-management to the libraries, as I am sure I am not alone in this issue.

I also convert my FLAC into ALAC using dbPoweramp, but prefer to keep it in ALAC, as some files move onto iDevices in ALAC, and for some I use the auto-convert in iTunes to ACC.

Simon.

Probably not alone , the problem looks simple from the surface , but if you think about it "what is a duplicate" ,you can probably define one use case . But otherwise endless possibilities for bugs .
For example having the same album in different releases with maybe only a comment tag as differentiator .

And the fact that tagging schemes for different formats may not be exactly equivalent artist or album artist ? or what ? also LMS internal representation of data of the music is not the tags but something reduced from the tags .

Could be an endless support issue this feature .

Definitely not alone , I think this questions pops up around every month on this forum .

[garym]

Probably not alone , the problem looks simple from the surface , but if you think about it "what is a duplicate" ,you can probably define one use case . But otherwise endless possibilities for bugs .
For example having the same album in different releases with maybe only a comment tag as differentiator .

And the fact that tagging schemes for different formats may not be exactly equivalent artist or album artist ? or what ? also LMS internal representation of data of the music is not the tags but something reduced from the tags .

Could be an endless support issue this feature .

Definitely not alone , I think this questions pops up around every month on this forum .

yep, all good points and difficult issues. For example, I have Beatles, original release CDs, Mono box set, Stereo box set. Duplicate finder would have to distinguish between, say, Rubber Soul, across all three versions. Obviously, not impossible (as I use tags to distinguish myself, adding [MONO] or [Stereo] to end of album name....

[Mnyb]

yep, all good points and difficult issues. For example, I have Beatles, original release CDs, Mono box set, Stereo box set. Duplicate finder would have to distinguish between, say, Rubber Soul, across all three versions. Obviously, not impossible (as I use tags to distinguish myself, adding [MONO] or [Stereo] to end of album name....

Yes but that's your tagging scheme I think it's fair to say that no ones doing these thing the same way around here .

I also have an unfounded suspicion that the folks that have a mixed content collection a bit haphazardly sorted is not the guys/gals that are meticulous taggers with perfect tags either .
Such feature may bug out completely exactly for those who wants it ?

Edit. I think some of my stuff would be hit to , when I begun this journey to streaming music i did not know any good tagging practices .
I do have some flac/id3v1 tagging in some old files for example ( the still work rigth now ,the information is not conflicting or incomplete )