Blind listening - TT3.0, HWmods and Teddy Pardo PSU

**ralphpnj** · 2012-04-02, 15:33

Originally posted by NoRoDa

I know there are a lot of people that will say I'm wrong.
But did you listen without knowing what you are listening to?
You'll need two SBTs to do this

Regards

Now you are aware that this is the "audiophiles" section of the forum and that blind or double blind listening tests are considered worthless, especially when these tests result in finding out almost all audiophile beliefs are just myths. In fact, all listening tests, whether sighted, blind or double blind, which involve direct comparisons between two similar components (e.g. speakers, amps, SBTs, etc.) are strictly forbidden.

For example take this quote from Michael Fremer's review of the MBL Radialstrahler 101E Mk. II loudspeaker which appears in the April 2012 issue of Stereophile:

"Although my entire system has changed in the eight years since the first version of the 101E Radialstrahler was here, I feel confident saying that the sound of the Mk. II is more refined and well behaved, and far more capable of speaking with a uniform, focused voice."

As you can see by the above quote, direct comparison is not only not needed but reviewers of high end audio equipment (equipment which, as is the case with the MBL Radialstrahler 101E Mk. II loudspeaker, often costs tens of thousands of dollars) can make comparisons based on simple long term memory and using a completely different set up.

Hopefully you will soon find a source for some of the magic audiophile kool-aid which once consumed will enable you to understand the error of your ways and allow you to make similar comparisons based on long term memory alone. As an added bonus you will then also be able to detect things like unmeasurable jitter, 100kHz harmonics and whether the electricity used to power your equipment is made by wind, solar, fossil fuel or nuclear power.

**pippin** · 2012-04-02, 16:07

<3

**ralphpnj** · 2012-04-02, 16:13

Originally posted by pippin

<3

You lost me with this one, please explain.

**pippin** · 2012-04-02, 16:50

Twitter slang for loving something or someone. Something in this case: your post (sorry).
<3 looks like a heart lying on it's side.

Actually although it got more common recently, I'd bet someone will now crawl in here and say it's already dating back to usenet times and is not at all related to Twitter....

**NoRoDa** · 2012-04-02, 16:51

Originally posted by ralphpnj

Now you are aware that this is the "audiophiles" section of the forum and that blind or double blind listening tests are considered worthless, especially when these tests result in finding out almost all audiophile beliefs are just myths. In fact, all listening tests, whether sighted, blind or double blind, which involve direct comparisons between two similar components (e.g. speakers, amps, SBTs, etc.) are strictly forbidden.

lol

Well, we did manage to pinpoint one of the players when listening blind.
The only "audiophile problem" is that it was the modified one that sounded worse....

I believe in cable differences, and many of the so called myths.
But that don't stop me from testing my listening impressions once in a while.

Regards

**ralphpnj** · 2012-04-02, 17:04

Originally posted by pippin

Twitter slang for loving something or someone. Something in this case: your post (sorry).
<3 looks like a heart lying on it's side.

Actually although it got more common recently, I'd bet someone will now crawl in here and say it's already dating back to usenet times and is not at all related to Twitter....

Thanks!

Originally posted by NoRoDa

lol

Well, we did manage to pinpoint one of the players when listening blind.
The only "audiophile problem" is that it was the modified one that sounded worse....

I believe in cable differences, and many of the so called myths.
But that don't stop me from testing my listening impressions once in a while.

Regards

You don't have to defend your own biases especially when you can back them up with listening tests and comparisons. Many so called audiophile file myths are based on things that a true but often these "truths" are taken to such great extremes that they are no longer true.

For example when it comes to cables, a good quality, well made cable may indeed perform and sound better than a poor made, low quality cable. However the differences between two high quality, well made cables is much harder to discern and may not even exist.

And when it comes to USB cables, well the audiophile world is now completely upside down. Sure a $500 USB may indeed have a little less jitter than a nice, well made $10 USB cable (which meets all required specifications for USB cables) but the effect the jitter of either cable has on the sound CAN NOT be heard by any human ear that has not drunk the audiophile kool-aid.

**JohnSwenson** · 2012-04-02, 18:23

Originally posted by NoRoDa

Interesting findings yesterday!

HWmods made no difference, but at least did not sound worse.

Regards

Which hardware mods had been implemented? Were you using coax or optical to the DAC?

Thanks,

John S.

**NoRoDa** · 2012-04-02, 20:03

Originally posted by JohnSwenson

Which hardware mods had been implemented? Were you using coax or optical to the DAC?

Thanks,

John S.

You have a PM regarding the HW mods.
BJC coax to the Buffalo II DAC

Regards
Rolf

**baardbaard** · 2012-04-02, 21:05

Originally posted by JohnSwenson

Which hardware mods had been implemented? Were you using coax or optical to the DAC?

Thanks,

John S.

Since it was my set-up that was under examinations/blind testing I can say a few words about it:

Bryston 7B SST
Meridian 568.2MM as pre.
ATC SCM 40
Buffalo DAC II w/IVY - coax SPDIF
One SB Touch w/ factory settings w/Teddy Pardo PSU –WLAN
One SB Touch w/ HW upgrade level 1 from Fidelity Audio w/TT3.0 w/Teddy Pardo PSU - LAN

Purpose:
Try to hear difference among 2 different SBT and to determine which was best in audiophile terms.

• Blind testing among standard SBT and SBT w HW mod and TT.30 made it obviously that standard SBT w/factory settings is far more musical. Better bottom end – more liquid presentation.
• Blind testing between standard SBT and SBT w/HW mod without TT3.0 was quite impossible to distinguish,
• Teddy PSU vs stock SMPS – quite easy to distinguish difference even blind tested. Teddy PSU is clearly better.

Comments:
• My Level 1 mod from FA is only 3 weeks old – lack of burn-in??

**Phil Leigh** · 2012-04-02, 22:18

Originally posted by baardbaard

Since it was my set-up that was under examinations/blind testing I can say a few words about it:

Bryston 7B SST
Meridian 568.2MM as pre.
ATC SCM 40
Buffalo DAC II w/IVY - coax SPDIF
One SB Touch w/ factory settings w/Teddy Pardo PSU –WLAN
One SB Touch w/ HW upgrade level 1 from Fidelity Audio w/TT3.0 w/Teddy Pardo PSU - LAN

Purpose:
Try to hear difference among 2 different SBT and to determine which was best in audiophile terms.

• Blind testing among standard SBT and SBT w HW mod and TT.30 made it obviously that standard SBT w/factory settings is far more musical. Better bottom end – more liquid presentation.
• Blind testing between standard SBT and SBT w/HW mod without TT3.0 was quite impossible to distinguish,
• Teddy PSU vs stock SMPS – quite easy to distinguish difference even blind tested. Teddy PSU is clearly better.

Comments:
• My Level 1 mod from FA is only 3 weeks old – lack of burn-in??

Not lack of burn-in, merely lack of any tangible benefit!

**MCG555** · 2012-04-02, 22:57

Originally posted by ralphpnj

Now you are aware that this is the "audiophiles" section of the forum and that blind or double blind listening tests are considered worthless, especially when these tests result in finding out almost all audiophile beliefs are just myths. In fact, all listening tests, whether sighted, blind or double blind, which involve direct comparisons between two similar components (e.g. speakers, amps, SBTs, etc.) are strictly forbidden.

For example take this quote from Michael Fremer's review of the MBL Radialstrahler 101E Mk. II loudspeaker which appears in the April 2012 issue of Stereophile:

"Although my entire system has changed in the eight years since the first version of the 101E Radialstrahler was here, I feel confident saying that the sound of the Mk. II is more refined and well behaved, and far more capable of speaking with a uniform, focused voice."

As you can see by the above quote, direct comparison is not only not needed but reviewers of high end audio equipment (equipment which, as is the case with the MBL Radialstrahler 101E Mk. II loudspeaker, often costs tens of thousands of dollars) can make comparisons based on simple long term memory and using a completely different set up.

Hopefully you will soon find a source for some of the magic audiophile kool-aid which once consumed will enable you to understand the error of your ways and allow you to make similar comparisons based on long term memory alone. As an added bonus you will then also be able to detect things like unmeasurable jitter, 100kHz harmonics and whether the electricity used to power your equipment is made by wind, solar, fossil fuel or nuclear power.

+1

Brilliant post! :-)

**ralphpnj** · 2012-04-02, 23:51

Originally posted by MCG555

+1

Brilliant post! :-)

Thanks. I do feel just a little (and I mean really, really little) bit undeserving of praise since poking fun at the high end audio magazines is like shooting fish in a barrel. They truly are such fools and leave themselves wide open for much well deserved scorn and ridicule. I guess writing the nonsense like I quoted above keeps the manufacturers happy and that in turn helps to keep the reviewers enjoying very expensive and nice sounding audio equipment which they never have to pay for. A very cosy little arrangement.

**Zombie** · 2012-04-03, 07:49

Did you do a test with both sets on LAN?

**NoRoDa** · 2012-04-03, 08:15

Originally posted by Zombie

Did you do a test with both sets on LAN?

No
We only had one ethernet cable available.

...And why bother when the WLAN factory SBT was preferred in all rounds?