Custom Scan and Sort Tags

[godIsInTheRadio]

Hi all the power users of that plugin,

I am wondering on how to combine tags and their sort values to a meaningful structure.
I'd like to see the values of (album) artist, performer, conductor, composer, as well as some other custom tags honored in the artist list.
I do not use either of the above as "multiple value" field anymore, because there is no meaningful mechanis of sorting associated.
LMS standard does not honor "COMPOSERSORT" and "PERFORMERSORT".
If I specficy PERFORMER=PERFORMERSORT in the Custom Tag sort tag mapping, will this be scanned only when I explicitely let scan PERFORMER too (which is already done by LMS)? Same q to COMPOSERSORT
If I use Custom Tags that have an associated Sort-Tag there in Mixed Tag, will the sorting be honored?

Example Tags
ARTIST=The ABC -> scanned by LMS
ARTISTSORT=ABC, The -> scanned by LMS
COMPOSER=Deaf Composer -> scanned by LMS
COMPSERSORT=Composer, Deaf -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping
PERFORMER=Anatol Naughty -> scanned by LMS
PERFORMERSORT=Naughty, Anatol -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping
CONDUCTOR=Swing Stick -> scanned by LMS
CONDUCTORSORT=Stick, Swing -> scanned by LMS [Edit, just realized that...]
OTHERTAG=George Gorgeous -> scanned by CustomTag
OTHERTAGSORT=Gorgeous, George -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping

This should appear in the artist hierarchy under ABC, DEF, Anatol Naughty, Swing Stick, George Gorgeous; sorted according to the Tag values resp. the associated Sort-Tag if existing.

Thanks for any hint...

[erland]

I do not use either of the above as "multiple value" field anymore, because there is no meaningful mechanis of sorting associated.

Not sure what you mean with multiple value field, if you are talking about Custom Scan configuration it should be able to map the correct XXX tag with the correct XXXSORT tag value as long as you have listed the multiple values in exactly the same order, for example:
PERFORMER=Some Artist;Other Artist
PERFORMERSORT=Artist Some;Artist Other

LMS standard does not honor "COMPOSERSORT" and "PERFORMERSORT".
If I specficy PERFORMER=PERFORMERSORT in the Custom Tag sort tag mapping, will this be scanned only when I explicitely let scan PERFORMER too (which is already done by LMS)? Same q to COMPOSERSORT

PERFORMER is not scanned by LMS as far as I know.
Custom Scan keeps its data in completely separate tables from standard LMS tables, each row have a value and a sortvalue, the sortvalue is set if you have configured a sorting.

If I use Custom Tags that have an associated Sort-Tag there in Mixed Tag, will the sorting be honored?

For COMPOSER/COMPOSERSORT and CONDUCTOR/CONDUCTORSORT, you will have to decide if you want LMS standard scanner to scan it or if you want Custom Tag in Custom Scan to scan it. If you don't do this, you will get duplicate entries in the menu in the user interface.

If you want standard LMS to scan it, you don't configure any of these tags in the Custom Tag scanning module configuration.

If you want Custom Tag to scan them, you make sure to leave the "Composer tags" and "Conductor tags" fields empty in the Mixed Tag scanning module configuration, and of course enter the tags in the Custom Tag scanning module configuration.

Example Tags
ARTIST=The ABC -> scanned by LMS
ARTISTSORT=ABC, The -> scanned by LMS
COMPOSER=Deaf Composer -> scanned by LMS
COMPSERSORT=Composer, Deaf -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping
PERFORMER=Anatol Naughty -> scanned by LMS
PERFORMERSORT=Naughty, Anatol -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping
CONDUCTOR=Swing Stick -> scanned by LMS
CONDUCTORSORT=Stick, Swing -> scanned by LMS [Edit, just realized that...]
OTHERTAG=George Gorgeous -> scanned by CustomTag
OTHERTAGSORT=Gorgeous, George -> mapped in CustomTag Sort Tag mapping

This should appear in the artist hierarchy under ABC, DEF, Anatol Naughty, Swing Stick, George Gorgeous; sorted according to the Tag values resp. the associated Sort-Tag if existing.

For COMPOSER/COMPOSERSORT, you need to decide. Either you let LMS scan them and then sorting won't work, unless the same artist also exist in an ARTIST/ARTISTSORT combination. Or you let Custom Scan scan them both through the Custom Tag scanning module as described above.

I don't think PERFORMER is scanned by LMS, if it is and I've just missed it, you need to handle it the same way as COMPOSER/COMPOSERSORT.

I hope this gave you some more information, but don't be afraid to ask if you have further questions or want something clarified.

[godIsInTheRadio]

Hello Erland,

just to clarify some things before I continue my setup / testing:
1. If I have CONDUCTOR/CONDUCTORSORT enabled in Custom Tags and no value for Conductor in mixed tags and flagged "Include Custom Tags" there, then using a Custom Browse standard "Conductor" Browse Menu should show the Conductors in alphabetical order if CONDUCTOR / CONDUCTORSORT pairs are matched in tags?
2. What if for the same conductor sometimes sort values are set, sometimes not?
3. Will LMS not scan the CONDUCTOR tag at all if I leave it out of the Mixed Tag settings? Or is that just relevant for Custom Scan / Custom Browse logic?

Thanks for your support

Marcus

[erland]

1. If I have CONDUCTOR/CONDUCTORSORT enabled in Custom Tags and no value for Conductor in mixed tags and flagged "Include Custom Tags" there, then using a Custom Browse standard "Conductor" Browse Menu should show the Conductors in alphabetical order if CONDUCTOR / CONDUCTORSORT pairs are matched in tags?

No, if you want the CONDUCTOR/CONDUCTORSORT tags scanned by Custom Scan, you need to use one of the Custom Browse menu templates that takes data from Custom Scan. The "Mixed Tags" menu template is probably easiest and just specify the tag you want to use on each hierarchy. Depending on the hierarchy you want it might also work with one of the templates which names start with "Custom Tags" or "Custom Multiple Tags".

The Conductors template take data from the standard LMS tables will will due to this not be affected by Custom Scan scanning.

2. What if for the same conductor sometimes sort values are set, sometimes not?

Good question.
My first advice would be to adjust the tags.
It might work without adjusting the tags, but I'm not completely sure.

3. Will LMS not scan the CONDUCTOR tag at all if I leave it out of the Mixed Tag settings? Or is that just relevant for Custom Scan / Custom Browse logic?

LMS will still scan CONDUCTOR and show it in the Artists menu if you have configured Conductors to be shown in the Artists menu.
The Custom Tag and Mixed Tag module will only affect Custom Browse based browse menus and they will only affect the Custom Browse based menus which is based on Custom Scan data.