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  1. #271
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    Guys,
    I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to Paul.

    I agree about the emailed audio files anecdote. This is why an understanding of how computers work is necessary. Those who understand know there is no need to listen to the files...a checksum would verify the fact the files are identical.

    The issue here is not whether differences were heard. Rather we should accept they were heard and set about discovering why. We know expectation bias is one possibility and we know differences in the files is not a possibility. However, there may be other possibilities in terms of the listening test.
    Darren

    Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
    Last edited by darrenyeats; 2012-03-04 at 06:51.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrenyeats View Post
    I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to Paul.
    Quote Originally Posted by paul.raulerson View Post
    I wasn't ready to dismiss it as swamp gas, because there is a possibility that something is going on I don't understand.
    THe problem with this approach is that there is always such a possibility, so we wouldn't ever be able to dismiss anything. We have to use a scientific approach to filter out the likely from the probable from the vanishingly unlikely. Otherwise we'd waste our lives chasing rainbows.

    I think that it is this kind of refusal to apply quality control to hypotheses which frustrates some members, especially in the field of audio reproduction, where it obvious that there are many, many, fools and charlatans operating.
    Quote Originally Posted by darrenyeats View Post
    The issue here is not whether differences were heard. Rather we should accept they were heard and set about discovering why. We know expectation bias is one possibility and we know differences in the files is not a possibility. However, there may be other possibilities in terms of the listening test.
    Yes - placebos actually work. The oft-quoted example from medicine is that recipients of a sugar pill sometimes get better. The belief that they are being treated (and the attention of the doctor) is enough to instigate recovery.

    The audio version of this could be a bog-standard cable, dressed up to look expensive and supplied with premium packaging, some blurb about what makes it superior and instructions on proper use (directionality and the like). The whole ritual involved in selecting, buying and fitting such a cable may well lead to a "real" perception of improved sound. The problem is that the final step in the audio chain is within the human mind.

    Such a cable is still a fraud, because the engineering claims made are lies, even if the end result is a perception of improved sound in the mind of the user.

    The placebo effect is very powerful - even more at odds with common sense is that it can work even if the subject knows, at least on an intellectual level, that they are getting nothing more than a placebo.

    The human mind is extremely gullible. There are good explanations of why this is the case in the field of evolutionary psychology. The whole point of the scientific method is to recognise this and mitigate the effects. In the field of audio, it means we need to be very careful (and very sceptical) indeed.

  3. #273
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrell View Post

    Such a cable is still a fraud, because the engineering claims made are lies, even if the end result is a perception of improved sound in the mind of the user.

    .
    Yeah but it wont last over time, hence you are in the "upgrade" spiral

    What can be mildly irritating as that no one reads the tread it is like a Relay race the next audiofool comes along and pose the same already answered and done questions without any apparent understanding of previous posts (hence the their posts ), and other rehash their tired response maybe in a more acerbic manner the 87th time around .

    But no wonder about that, the overwhelming majority of the audio press is a part of this disinformation scam they feed on the cult and also provide the feedback loop for it all , but it needs to be done to spend some energy dispute this I will at least spent as munch time and energy on it as I wasted believing all this claptrap .

    In the meantime have a blackbody

    http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

    And raving positive review from the lunatic fringe literally , they not pleased at bark at one moon...

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/l...ackbody_3.html
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
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  4. #274
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_c View Post
    uuencode and base64 sound waaay better than yEnc.
    Not when the music is jazz. yEnc for jazz, uuencode for rock and popular and base64 for classical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Which font was used on the newsgroup any serifs would add a peculiar edge on stuff
    Serifs don't add an edge, they add flair!

    Quote Originally Posted by andy_c View Post
    I use only monospaced fonts when reading newsgroups, as the uniform spacing between bytes reduces jitter considerably!
    True but monospaced fonts make the music sound rigid and locked in place, since I like free jazz I would never use a monospaced font. And besides the track was stereo! DUH!

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.raulerson View Post
    It's really pretty simple - there is no club initiation to enjoy home audio as a hobby. No certification exams, nor any oversight agency checking credentials.

    I'm not sure how you find "standards" for evaluating home audio on a personal basis.

    Anyone is welcome to design, conduct, and publish any tests they like. Some of them are going to be pure crap - as witness the TAS articles in question.
    I agree with you completely when one is talking about an individual evaluating equipment for their own personal use since it's their money and their ears. But I strongly disagree when one is evaluating and testing equipment for a formal, published review in a magazine sold to the general public.

    Let's make no mistake these audio magazines do have an enormous influence on the high end audio market both for new and used equipment. Over the years I've tried to use this undue influence to my advantage by looking for used equipment that was "damned with faint praise" in the audio press. Often times one can buy used equipment which has been "damned with faint praise" for a very good price. On the other hand one will often have to overpay for equipment which has received high praise for the audio press.

    Cases in point:

    The Cambridge Audio DAC Magic which at the peak of its popularity in the audio press was sell used for almost the same as new ($425 new versus $375 used - not a good used to new ratio).

    Energy Veritas speakers which were "damned with faint praise" if they were reviewed at all and therefore could be bought new for 50% of their original price and used for even less.

    So make no mistake real harm is being done by the publication of that ridiculous Computer Music series in TAS and real money will be made by some manufacturers who will be selling nearly worthless products that they claim will overcome the problems pointed in the TAS series, problems that in reality do not exist.
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
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  5. #275
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by darrenyeats View Post
    guys,
    i think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on paul. It seems to me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to paul.

    I agree about the emailed audio files anecdote. This is why an understanding of how computers work is necessary. Those who understand know there is no need to listen to the files...a checksum would verify the fact the files are identical.

    The issue here is not whether differences were heard. Rather we should accept they were heard and set about discovering why. We know expectation bias is one possibility and we know differences in the files is not a possibility. However, there may be other possibilities in terms of the listening test.
    Darren

    sent from my htc sensation z710e using tapatalk
    +1
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
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  6. #276
    Senior Member totoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrenyeats View Post
    Guys,
    I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to Paul.
    I agree with this. I disagree with Paul. However, unlike item_audio, magiccarpetride, or ncarver, he didn't come in here dripping with attitude, didn't call anyone names or make any ad hominem arguments, didn't act like a pseudo-intellectual twit, etc.

    Since he acted like an adult (albeit one who holds views I oppose to some degree ). I've tried to act like one back. I think the bad feelings left by the aforementioned posters, TAS itself, and the poisoned pool of pseudo-intellectual cultists that this hobby has become have gotten projected onto him
    sb touch -> classdaudio sds-450 -> audio physic tempo 4 + rel storm 3 & rythmik f12se

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post

    In the meantime have a blackbody

    http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html
    Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil.
    Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ?
    I SAID ALL OF THEM !

  8. #278
    Senior Member totoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andynormancx View Post
    Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil.
    Yes, that is _exactly_ the kind of thing that makes the word "audiophile" an embarrassment.
    sb touch -> classdaudio sds-450 -> audio physic tempo 4 + rel storm 3 & rythmik f12se

  9. #279
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andynormancx View Post
    Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil.
    The same comment with one minor change could also be used to describe the TAS Computer Music series:

    Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever seen. They really have perfected the art of PUBLISHING snake oil.
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
    Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
    Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub
    Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
    Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
    Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
    Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
    Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
    Last.fm

  10. #280
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    For a good freakshow note all the weird adds on both avguide (TAS and hifi+) and stereophiles home pages .

    Also lesslos that does the blackbox have some computer audio stuff too hence a tangent with the topic of fud in computer audio but I simply did not get further than the blackbox
    Sorry for to much of topic .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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