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  1. #21
    Senior Member bernt's Avatar
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    Two "small" wishes.

    1. AirPlay.

    2. Publish my local LMS library to mySB.net so I can stream my music to a SB over internet.

    Just like myPlexapp works. https://my.plexapp.com/
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    SB3, SB BOOM - Vortexbox@HP SFF
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  2. #22
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    it seems to me that they need a new, cheaper piece of hardware, that has no display, that will do audio and video.

    sound familiar? i said it years and years ago. apparently apple was eavesdropping.

    given that server does video now, and dlna, the above just seems so obvious to me. if apple can sell a tiny box for $99 that does 720p, surely logitech can figure out how to do 1080p for a few dollars more?

    THATS how they need to compete and become relevant. if "syncing" is all they got, they're done.
    You are forgetting something, there are three main things that makes AppleTV a device people consider to buy:
    - AirPlay (Making it possible to show the iPad/iPhone image/sound on the TV)
    - iTunes Store (Making it possible to purchase/rent media via device)
    - Netflix (Making it possible to view premium video content for a monthly fee)

    Without these three things, the AppleTV would be pretty useless. The same also applies to a similar device from Logitech. It's pointless to do video unless you also support some backend media providers. So if Logitech ever wants to do video again, they have to make sure they have some media providers available which provides content to the system, I'm pretty sure this is one of the things which caused Revue to fail, just providing support for local media files on a computer/NAS is not enough these days.

    Also, based on their experience with the Duet, I'm not sure Logitech ever want to do another device completely without a display. A simple LED or LCD display will make it so much easier for the support staff to investigate problems. Of course, as long as you have a TV output you should be able to use the TV for troubleshooting, so this is where video support gets important if the devices doesn't have its own display.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Also, based on their experience with the Duet, I'm not sure Logitech ever want to do another device completely without a display
    Well, doesn't do Sonos devices without a display quite succesfully? I don't think the lack of the display is the problem, but the really awkward setup with the duet/receiver. Logitech should support setup from LMS/SN.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verypsb View Post
    Well, doesn't do Sonos devices without a display quite succesfully? I don't think the lack of the display is the problem, but the really awkward setup with the duet/receiver. Logitech should support setup from LMS/SN.
    Or a buildt in web-page in the unit just like a router or 1000 of other devices you hook up.

    But none of this solve the basic problem . To be reached by LMS /SN it must already been setup at least the ethernet/wifi part .

    Ehternet is easy you just plug it in and it gets assigned ip via dhcp .

    But to type in a wifi password you must type on something and see what you are typing .

    You could ofcourse set it up by first connect it via ethernet and then type in you wifi settings .

    And the whole mysqueezebox.com account speil could be performed on a webpage after you do that.

    But it is simpler to type rigth on the device.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  5. #25
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    I dont think Logitech really want to try and take the AppleTV product head on. They already said they hated GoogleTV and wouldnt be going back.

    AppleTV and GoogleTV boxes are just stop gaps until people upgrade their tv's. The new TV's include all those features already plus a boat load more. So they are a dead end for someone like Logitech who isnt in the TV market. 2 years and the AppleTV device will disappear and devalue just like your digital tv set top box.

    Squeezebox as a product has worked great for Logitech, regardless of how much you guys seem to swear it has been horrible for them. It sits nicely in the market with basically only the Sonos competing against it. Very few products come to mind with the advanced feature set, small form factor and usability.

    A squeezebox with video support will only survive if it does something new, something your smart TV sucks at or doesnt do at all. For audio its a no brainer, the tv's always lack decent playlist support, wide content support and small form factor. For video where can the Squeezebox find some room for itself to sit in the market? People tend not to have a 10,000+ file video library with perfect naming/tagging, without mass libraries many of the TV interfaces are adequate, there is squat all decent content providers not already covered by the smart TV's and many smart TV's support all the file format anyone cares about currently.

  6. #26
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    You are forgetting something,
    i didn't forget, i just didn't explicitly state everything, b/c i figured some of it was obvious and not really the point i was trying to make anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    there are three main things that makes AppleTV a device people consider to buy:
    - AirPlay (Making it possible to show the iPad/iPhone image/sound on the TV)
    - iTunes Store (Making it possible to purchase/rent media via device)
    - Netflix (Making it possible to view premium video content for a monthly fee)
    agreed, as well as local itunes files. but logitech knows this, as evidenced by the many audio partners server has, so i'd assume if they added video, they'd add video partners as well. while they won't be able to do something as flexible as airplay, their solution is for people who don't want to do apple anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Without these three things, the AppleTV would be pretty useless. The same also applies to a similar device from Logitech. It's pointless to do video unless you also support some backend media providers. So if Logitech ever wants to do video again, they have to make sure they have some media providers available which provides content to the system, I'm pretty sure this is one of the things which caused Revue to fail, just providing support for local media files on a computer/NAS is not enough these days.
    agreed, and if the revue had been done right with an open market, they could have used apps to do that stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Also, based on their experience with the Duet, I'm not sure Logitech ever want to do another device completely without a display. A simple LED or LCD display will make it so much easier for the support staff to investigate problems. Of course, as long as you have a TV output you should be able to use the TV for troubleshooting, so this is where video support gets important if the devices doesn't have its own display.
    exactly. i don't see any problem with this at all. apple tv sets up easy as pie with a simple 3 button remote. logitech needs to make a CHEAP audio/video adapter, and so i see no need at all for a built in display on the cheapest model.

    Quote Originally Posted by verypsb View Post
    Well, doesn't do Sonos devices without a display quite succesfully? I don't think the lack of the display is the problem, but the really awkward setup with the duet/receiver. Logitech should support setup from LMS/SN.
    agreed, but the initial wifi setup should be via remote and TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Or a buildt in web-page in the unit just like a router or 1000 of other devices you hook up.

    But none of this solve the basic problem . To be reached by LMS /SN it must already been setup at least the ethernet/wifi part .

    Ehternet is easy you just plug it in and it gets assigned ip via dhcp .

    But to type in a wifi password you must type on something and see what you are typing .

    You could ofcourse set it up by first connect it via ethernet and then type in you wifi settings .

    And the whole mysqueezebox.com account speil could be performed on a webpage after you do that.

    But it is simpler to type rigth on the device.
    see above, just use the TV and a simple remote.

    Quote Originally Posted by bits View Post
    I dont think Logitech really want to try and take the AppleTV product head on. They already said they hated GoogleTV and wouldnt be going back.
    i'm talking about just a media adapter, which is really all apple tv is, lots of companies make them, but logitech has the chance to make one that has a server thats better than what other companies offer.

    if logitech thinks it can continue to develop SB as a niche audio product, i think its gonna die. already we've seen devs cut right and left on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bits View Post
    AppleTV and GoogleTV boxes are just stop gaps until people upgrade their tv's. The new TV's include all those features already plus a boat load more. So they are a dead end for someone like Logitech who isnt in the TV market. 2 years and the AppleTV device will disappear and devalue just like your digital tv set top box.

    Squeezebox as a product has worked great for Logitech, regardless of how much you guys seem to swear it has been horrible for them. It sits nicely in the market with basically only the Sonos competing against it. Very few products come to mind with the advanced feature set, small form factor and usability.

    A squeezebox with video support will only survive if it does something new, something your smart TV sucks at or doesnt do at all. For audio its a no brainer, the tv's always lack decent playlist support, wide content support and small form factor. For video where can the Squeezebox find some room for itself to sit in the market? People tend not to have a 10,000+ file video library with perfect naming/tagging, without mass libraries many of the TV interfaces are adequate, there is squat all decent content providers not already covered by the smart TV's and many smart TV's support all the file format anyone cares about currently.
    i disagree. most TVs suck at dlna/audio and video. apple tv does it very well, but u gotta use itunes.

    i think a lot of people want a product that can do audio and video well, but that can also do audio without the TV on, and without itunes.

    one other thing i really think the server needs to do is accept the computers sound card output, and send it to the hardware. that would allow people to use their own software with the hardware. i think there are some 3rd party ways to do that, but it should be part of the core app and easy imo. doing the same thing with video, and or keeping the audio sync'd with video is a more difficult proposition, i understand that.

  7. #27
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    http://www.roku.com/netflixplayer/default.aspx?pid=16122&ais=ApN&mpm=CPM&cid=${CP_CO DE}&n_crid=1265068

  8. #28
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    http://www.roku.com/netflixplayer/default.aspx?pid=16122&ais=ApN&mpm=CPM&cid=${CP_CO DE}&n_crid=1265068
    I guess it depends on if you mostly listen to locally stored media or if you mostly listen to stuff on various streaming services. As I understood, it's somewhat possible to use local media with the Roku player through Roksbox but it looked like the browsing was limited to browse by folder. Except for Roksbox I think the Roku player is currently only focused at online media which results in that it has a disadvantage compared to for example an AppleTV.

    It also depends on if you want a "all in one" box that supports everything or if you want a dedicated box that can do one thing really good. For me personally, in same ways as I want dedicated devices in my audio equipment, I also want a dedicated box for music. The simple explanation is just that a dedicated music box will always do music better than an "all in one" box that also supports video. Music listening is also very different from viewing videos, so based on that someone still needs to convince me that it's a good idea to combine these.

    However, from a mass market perspective, I suspect an "all in one" box might be more popular because the mass market really doesn't care about quality. If they can get an all in one box that works "good enough" with both music and video that's what most people prefer. The question is just if it's a good idea to start focus on video when the limited number of resources currently available for Squeezebox development barely is able to handle support for music.

    The Revue was an "all in one" box by the way, which supported a lot of things, among other things DLNA, and I'm still not convinced that the Revue was a success...
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Re use tv , 1 have one and it's a projector my other 3 boxes are not close to a TV. Setup a music streamer via TV ? Not for me.

    I'm still curius to what they are up to Is LMs going t be a more complete media managment system ? A new product ?

    They have tried autoscanning of new stuff ( abandoned ) .

    Automatic artwork downloading , abandoned due to lack of partner to provide art .

    Do I dare suggest the ( optional ) ability to fix tags ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  10. #30
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    I'm still curius to what they are up to Is LMs going t be a more complete media managment system ? A new product ?

    They have tried autoscanning of new stuff ( abandoned ) .

    Automatic artwork downloading , abandoned due to lack of partner to provide art .

    Do I dare suggest the ( optional ) ability to fix tags ?
    Something which they can earn money on and something which makes Squeezebox more attractive to mass market users.

    This probably either means new hardware or support for some new premium streaming services. Based on this I also think that except for bug fixing, we can probably expect the focus to either be on the player side (new hardware) or on the mysqueezebox.com side (support for new streaming services).

    But this is just a guess, I might be completely wrong.

    I don't think we should expect LMS to be turned into a complete media management system, too big investment and too little money to earn for them.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

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