Where they inside what can be called audiable are they possible to hear, I'm well aware of that things show up on measurments long before any human ear can detect it, but technical improvements are good on it's own merits too, it adds up small improvements here and there in the long chain from musician to listener.
linear power supplies, done right can improve the Touch.
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Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html -
Where they inside what can be called audiable are they possible to hear, I'm well aware of that things show up on measurments long before any human ear can detect it, but technical improvements are good on it's own merits too, it adds up small improvements here and there in the long chain from musician to listener.You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.Comment
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I assumed you compared to some "reference" .
The real Q is then which is closer to the original signal, imho improvement is objective, the listening experience is subjective humans do not always prefer the correct rendering of the source material.--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Rasbery PI digi+ MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Loggia: Raspi hifiberry dac + Adams
Bathroom : Radio (with battery)
iPad with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server Intel NUC Esxi VM Linux mint 18 LMS 7.9.2
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.htmlComment
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So true... Far too many people conflate "I prefer it" with "better in an absolute sense". NOS dacs, vinyl, SACD, CRT TV (yes really), valve amps, CD players...You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.Comment
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I just came across this topic and figured that I would chime in.
Tonight, I just hooked up a linear power supply to the Squeezebox Touch for the first time. The sound seems much fuller and more detailed. I used the Touch's SPDIF output plugged in to my receiver. Subjectively, switching power sources back and forth several times has convinced me that the improvement is real.
I made my own power supply from a kit (sigma 11 by AMB). I was a bit skeptical about the possibility of improving a digital signal, so I built my own power supply because I would have felt stupid giving money to someone selling a solution that did not work. Having heard that the improvement is real, I would be more willing to support a complete solution made by someone else. The costs are about the same. The power supply in not in the case yet, so it is sitting out in the open waiting to shock someone. Right now, I am trying to determine the heat output for ventilation reasons.
This post has prompted me to do a little experimentation. The voltage output at the power supply is absolutely stable (within about .1 millivolt according to the meter). Since I made my own 9 ft cable (just 2 wires) for the Touch, I was able to remove the shell and measure the voltage fluctuation right at the Touch. The voltage was fluctuating at that point. The voltage fluctuation is only about 5 millivolts with my 9 ft cord. It is hard to say if this fluctuation is relevant, but the theory of putting the voltage regulation closer to the Touch seems valid. I will experiment with a shorter cord and experiment with Soundcheck's firmware mods. Hopefully, getting the transformer closer to other components will not cause an interference problem. It is too late for me to consider splitting off the voltage regulator part of the circuit off from the initial power conditioning part of the circuit. I would need two circuit boards, two enclosures, and would need to put about half of the components on each circuit board.
I built speakers earlier this year. After the power supply is complete, I am considering acquiring a DAC and building an amplifier.Comment
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I did some testing today and did not come up with anything conclusive.
As one would expect, shorter wires provided a more stable voltage. I measured a voltage fluctuation of about .3 mA as compared to the 5 mA with the longer wires. Every now and then, there was a greater voltage fluctuation, possibly due to some process going on in the Touch, but in general it was much more stable. I did nothing more than to prove Ohms Law: a fluctuating current across the lesser resistance of the shorter wires caused a smaller voltage drop/fluctuation.
At times, I thought I could hear an improvement and other times I don't think that I did. After I wised up, the power supply was moved in front of the speakers so that I could touch the shorter wires to the terminal block holding the longer wires. This made it so the wires were hooked in parallel and the Touch did not have to reboot between changes. A remotely controlled relay used to connect the wires from my listening chair could have proved more and been less fatiguing. With each wire change, the affects were not immediate, but MAYBE the sound improved after a couple of seconds with the shorter wires.
I am undecided about the benefits, but I will shorten the DC power cord and move on, since the theory of moving the voltage regulation closer to the Touch still seems reasonable. The improvements to analog output signals were not tested.
I also tried Soundcheck's firmware modification. I am also undecided there. It turns off functionality that I don't need, so there is nothing to lose.Comment
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I built my own linear supply for my Touch some time ago.
I was trying to achieve two functions, reduce the unwanted noise going into Touch from the original supply and reduce the unwanted noise coming out of the supply and into the rest of my system.
The later can be achieved quite cheaply with a filter costing a few pounds placed on the mains inlet to the Touch PSU and other equipment in your system.
The two stage power supply seems to me like a bit of a gimmick.
Two factors to consider
Touch already has its own internal electronics to derive its precise voltage requirements from the original wall wart.
If the final voltage going into Touch is as critical as made out (and I doubt it)it will only be an issue with long cable lengths. The normal way of eliminating this issue is to use a 3 core cable for the power lead. the 3rd cable is used to give the power supply its voltage sense feedback from the point at where it feeds into Touch. This way the stabilised supply will be at the point of entry into Touch eliminating any cable length issues.
I always qualify any comments on sound improvement by saying the sound improvements one may hear is a function of the resolution of your hi Fi system - and of course your own hearing.
I did clock a good improvement using my own linear supply. mostly at the top end, better resolution and transient response. I have actioned Soundchecks mod to feed my Touch PCM and evaluating the result, again, initially at least I am finding further improvement.
I am feeding Touch SPDIF into a Benchmark HDR into Hypex Class D amps into ATC SCM40 speakers
IanmacDenon1940 DVD-A,Littledot CDP, Cyrus FMX tuner,Squeezebox Touch,Bencmark HDR DAC, Hypex Amps,ATC SCM40 speakers.Comment
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Regalma1,
The power supply was plugged in and the Touch was on and playing music. All voltages that I reported were taken with the Touch plugged in and streaming music.
I measured the power supply that came with the Touch when it was not plugged in to the Touch. In that case, the power supply voltage (for the one that comes with the Touch) was jumping around. Since there was no load in this case, I don't think that I can conclude anything. I would have to splice in to my original power supply cable to learn more. My Fluke meter jumps around more when not measuring something as compared to when it is measuring something. For this reason, I never commented on the stability of the stock power supply.
I confirmed that the voltage was more steady if the voltage regulator is closer to the Touch, but it is still beyond me what a linear power does to improve the sound of a signal that is being passed all digitally. I believe that it does. Is it line noise? Is it a varying voltage making the clock run at a different speed and increasing jitter? I don't know. Sound loss in digital to digital transmission does not make sense to me. A digital to analog change is pretty easy to comprehend. Also, how steady does a voltage have to be in order to not degrade sound? By the end of testing my ears were fatigued, so I couldn't properly judge the sounds. I did not prove or disprove anything in terms of audible sound quality improvements due to a steadier voltage. Also, I do not have an "audiophile" quality system yet by my standards. Each system will be different.Last edited by DaveJS; 2011-10-11, 05:34.Comment
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unsteady voltage
I can only speculate why it is jumping around. It would require a good o'scope to find out if it is "random", ripple (residual AC) or high frequency artifacts from the power supply. It is all speculation. Someday I'll be motivated to do some experiments and even look for noise or distortion using a spectrum analyzer, which we make, so I have access to.
Your DMM jumping around when not making measurements is completely normal, by the way. If you want to see it stable touch the two leads together.Comment
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Regalma1,
The power supply was plugged in and the Touch was on and playing music. All voltages that I reported were taken with the Touch plugged in and streaming music.
I measured the power supply that came with the Touch when it was not plugged in to the Touch. In that case, the power supply voltage (for the one that comes with the Touch) was jumping around. Since there was no load in this case, I don't think that I can conclude anything. I would have to splice in to my original power supply cable to learn more. My Fluke meter jumps around more when not measuring something as compared to when it is measuring something. For this reason, I never commented on the stability of the stock power supply.
I confirmed that the voltage was more steady if the voltage regulator is closer to the Touch, but it is still beyond me what a linear power does to improve the sound of a signal that is being passed all digitally. I believe that it does. Is it line noise? Is it a varying voltage making the clock run at a different speed and increasing jitter? I don't know. Sound loss in digital to digital transmission does not make sense to me. A digital to analog change is pretty easy to comprehend. Also, how steady does a voltage have to be in order to not degrade sound? By the end of testing my ears were fatigued, so I couldn't properly judge the sounds. I did not prove or disprove anything in terms of audible sound quality improvements due to a steadier voltage. Also, I do not have an "audiophile" quality system yet by my standards. Each system will be different.
You should not see any "jumping around" if your PSU and DMM are working properly.You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.Comment
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You misunderstood me
A DMM will jump around if the leads are floating. I've used scores of DMMs over the years, from cheap ones to ones costing in the thousands, and many Flukes. They've all acted the same.
It is actually useful. It indicates to you that you are not making contact with anything conductive.
Yes, if you are measuring a DC voltage then they should be steady. Unless the load is very dynamic. Even the best of supplies are not completely stable under highly varying loads.Comment
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Reply to OP from newbie
I got myself a SBT earlier this summer, and started wondering about aftermarket power supplies.
I was unsure about this as there's different opinions about this subject, on this forum and on the internet in general.
So finally I took a chance and got a CI Audio VDC-SB power supply.
I must say I'm even more puzzled by what I read on the 'net because the difference in performance in my setup is very obvious,and immediate, if not huge!
I simply advise all interested SBT users to keep an open mind about this and try a linear PS on their own unit in order to make an informed decision.
My setup in this case is SBT, Oyaide DR-510 digital cable, Naim Supernait and DIY speakers based on Pro-Ac 2.5 .
Cheers!Comment
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I got myself a SBT earlier this summer, and started wondering about aftermarket power supplies.
I was unsure about this as there's different opinions about this subject, on this forum and on the internet in general.
So finally I took a chance and got a CI Audio VDC-SB power supply.
I must say I'm even more puzzled by what I read on the 'net because the difference in performance in my setup is very obvious,and immediate, if not huge!
I simply advise all interested SBT users to keep an open mind about this and try a linear PS on their own unit in order to make an informed decision.
My setup in this case is SBT, Oyaide DR-510 digital cable, Naim Supernait and DIY speakers based on Pro-Ac 2.5 .
Cheers!Comment
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