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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Moby's latest in FLAC

    Noticed that Moby is selling his latest album in lossles on his homepage .

    These kind of things should always be encouraged !

    More musicians should offer lossles downloads .

    I'd like to see hints about such things myself .

    So keep hinting about legal lossles content where ever it can be found
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I like Moby. But I believe his music is of the kind that doesn't lose a lot when converted to mo3.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I like Moby. But I believe his music is of the kind that doesn't lose a lot when converted to mo3.
    Maybe, haven't got the time to hear this particular album , But electronic music can sound surprisingly good , so lossles is not a waste imho.

    I'm surprised myself sometimes listening to popular club and dance music with Spotify premium, you might think that SQ should be good enough ? not so ! in cases where I have a lossles copy myself it's sounds better in most cases ?

    But commercial sources only delivers lowrate mp3 not 320kBps iTunes had improved recently with thier 256k aac offering, but I wont take my business there anyway.

    However there are more reasons to use lossles than SQ, In fact even thou I'm typicaly audiphile in many ways a major reason for using lossles is not SQ at all,as you said it does not exist in many recordings so why bother.

    But data integrity and possibility to migrate the data without losses in the future. I like the fact the lossles files can be transcoded to other lossles formats practically forever .

    I deem an MP3 an disposable short term copy I can use in my iPad while travelling, not an original recording to pay for.


    And the nature of my hifi-rig is that it does a lot of DSP on the music data, so it is more likely to expose artifacts .

    It's similar to photoshopping images if your going to process a picture and use filters etc the result is much better if use a higher rez original even if you intent to compress it later on .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    OT I think electronica can sound better on mp3 than it does, many artist use very deep bass synthesizer effects and similar .

    A common mp3 technique is to strip off very deep bass as most people wont hear it anyway , I use room compensation in the bass and have -3 dB at 20Hz in my listening position ( a decent subwofer helps greatly) if I'm in the mode and play loud some mp3 simply lacks that visceral impact effect

    If they could just leave the bass in....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  5. #5
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Maybe, haven't got the time to hear this particular album , But electronic music can sound surprisingly good , so lossles is not a waste imho.
    As of my experience it's not a question of "good". With >>90% of today's studio recordings I can't hear any difference between high bitrate mp3s and lossless, I believe it's because most material is mixed to not sound bad on mp3 which is how most people will hear it.
    I'm surprised myself sometimes listening to popular club and dance music with Spotify premium, you might think that SQ should be good enough ? not so ! in cases where I have a lossles copy myself it's sounds better in most cases ?
    I've experienced that, too, and it has been part of my criticism of Spotify. But I believe the problem here is not bitrate but the fact that it's bad encodings. Encoding quality makes much more of a difference than bitrate.
    I suspect that a lot of the Spotify material is transcoded from other lossy formats, e.g. AAC.
    But commercial sources only delivers lowrate mp3 not 320kBps iTunes had improved recently with thier 256k aac offering, but I wont take my business there anyway.
    Valid point. 256kbps AAC can be pretty good, though.
    However there are more reasons to use lossles than SQ, In fact even thou I'm typicaly audiphile in many ways a major reason for using lossles is not SQ at all,as you said it does not exist in many recordings so why bother.
    So what are these other reasons? You own stock in harddisc manufacturers? I actually can't think of even a single advantage lossless has over compressed other than SQ which I can name a lot of disadvantages.
    But data integrity and possibility to migrate the data without losses in the future. I like the fact the lossles files can be transcoded to other lossles formats practically forever .
    OK, but that only applies if you are seeing any SQ difference. OK, if the PA model is different between formats that might be a valid point.
    And the nature of my hifi-rig is that it does a lot of DSP on the music data, so it is more likely to expose artifacts .
    It's also more likely to distort the sound to a level that it doesn't matter anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    OT I think electronica can sound better on mp3 than it does, many artist use very deep bass synthesizer effects and similar .

    A common mp3 technique is to strip off very deep bass as most people wont hear it anyway , I use room compensation in the bass and have -3 dB at 20Hz in my listening position ( a decent subwofer helps greatly) if I'm in the mode and play loud some mp3 simply lacks that visceral impact effect

    If they could just leave the bass in....
    Have you experience that with commercial studio recordings?
    My experience is that lossless is only worthwhile for live material or older stuff that is still mastered for vinyl.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    In short I seldom have problems with my own lossy encoding with lame and settings I find acceptable .

    But as soon as you pick up lossy encodings from elsewhere, there always something , you exemplified with spotify .

    So even if intend to use it as mp3 I want to do it myself .

    Transcoding between different lossy codecs is as you mentioned another reason, who knows what the future lossy format will be ?

    Disc space ? with todays drives not a problem with a normal collection I'm ntrying not to be an OCD collector that must have everything i can download so I actually heard almost all of my 2670 albums.

    Very OT.

    Spotify actually helps me keep the collection "tidy" as I don't have to dl so much "crap" I don't really want myself .

    Some guest always looks like they ate a mouthful of dirt when trying to find something they heard of in my collection
    Even good friends can't always have god taste in music .
    So pre spotify I did "acquire" some stuff I knew my friends would like when I had a party, and discovered that is a small ocd collector in me too, so it's still there on my drive ?

    Wonder if not many of us have a "courtesy collection" of stuff to please visitors with ? I even have ABBA to make my mother happy.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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