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View Poll Results: How do you rate 7.6?

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  • It's great. Smooth install, works well.

    51 32.08%
  • It's okay. A few issues but nothing serious.

    40 25.16%
  • Not too good. Several problems. It mostly works though.

    24 15.09%
  • It's bad. I had to downgrade. Avoid it.

    44 27.67%
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  1. #1
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    7.6 - A Step too Far?

    So 7.6 is finally released and the boards light up..with complaints. After the recent angst resulting from W7.1 and later versions of 7.5 I was hoping 7.6 was a new dawn that would sweep away the foibles of 7.5. So what's the verdict? Based on what I'm seeing here there's no way I'm going to risk an upgrade and that's sad. After all the years I've been using the SB product line I'm now afraid to upgrade.

    What's the deal with all the scanning bugs? I write computer software for a living and I've had to write DB population stuff. Just why the <*censored*> is this causing so many problems? It's meat-and-potatoes stuff. An application like SB server and it can't even reliably build a list of music?

    Anyway maybe it's just a bad impression that the forum is giving. So I've created a poll. For now I'm holding off upgrading.

  2. #2
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    I voted for "great".
    Reading from the beta forums I braced for the worse. I did a complete backup of the linux VM that runs the server and jumped from 7.4.2 to 7.6.0.
    Upgrade went perfect (the original install on this machine was SC 7.3.4), and 7.6.0 runs perfectly fine. My DB is all there, and I've been playing/synching 4 units for hours without a glitch. All interfaces (old players, web, iPeng) seem more lively..

    I got rid of mysql, I can play .m4a's (no need to convert to Flac anymore it is transcoded to for the "old" clients). And, this seems improbable but I've had someone confirm it, text scrolling on the SB3 looks smoother…
    I haven't tested the delta scanning feature yet (I import the MusicIP DB, so I need to scan manually anyway).

    On this particular instance I don't use the CLI at all.
    I expect my CLI code would need some rework (I qualified it on 7.3.3, and I've seen every single version change behavior in some way or another under CLI) but who knows, I may be up for another good surprise.
    When I have time I'll look into this and perhaps migrate the few SC 7.3 servers deployments I have frozen in time to the brand new 7.6.

    My thanks to the dev team, especially Andyg I guess.

    EDIT: I did a full rescan just to see. I only import mixable status from MusicIP so SBS has to do the scanning in full. Usually on 7.4.2 it took around 25 minutes, now down to 11 minutes. This is a VM, music files are on NFS (mp3 and FLAC, no cue sheets), the VM system drive image is on a SATA SSD. The VM has 2GB of RAM, I set the server to "performance mode".
    Squeezebox Server Status
    Version: 7.6.0 - r32854 @ Mon Jul 25 10:10:04 PDT 2011
    Hostname: montreux
    Server IP Address: 172.17.0.20
    Server HTTP Port Number: 9000
    Operating system: Debian - EN - utf8
    Platform Architecture: x86_64-linux
    Perl Version: 5.10.1 - x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.32_02 (sqlite 3.7.5)
    Total Players Recognized: 5

    Music Scan Details
    Discovering files (21699 of 21699) Complete 00:00:17
    Scanning new files (17830 of 17830) Complete 00:07:06
    Discovering playlists (3 of 3) Complete 00:00:01
    Scanning new playlists (1 of 1) Complete 00:00:00
    MusicIP Import (17797 of 17797) Complete 00:02:38
    Pre-caching Artwork (1641 of 1641) Complete 00:01:33

    The server has finished scanning your music collection.
    Total Time: 00:11:35 (Thursday, 28 July 2011 / 10:26)
    Last edited by epoch1970; 2011-07-28 at 01:40.
    4 SB 3 • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • SqueezeLite • Squeezebox Server 7.8.1 (Debian 7.5) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput by bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon Harris • Smart Mix by Michael Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by Erland Isaksson • WeatherTime by Martin Rehfeld • ShairTunes by StuartUSA • Local Player, BBC iPlayer, SwitchPlayer by Triode • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

  3. #3
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrueC View Post
    So 7.6 is finally released and the boards light up..with complaints. After the recent angst resulting from W7.1 and later versions of 7.5 I was hoping 7.6 was a new dawn that would sweep away the foibles of 7.5. So what's the verdict? Based on what I'm seeing here there's no way I'm going to risk an upgrade and that's sad. After all the years I've been using the SB product line I'm now afraid to upgrade.
    I voted based on my own experience in my own setup and based on that it's actually pretty good. I haven't had any major issues everything has worked very good, but I only have FLAC music and I don't have any static playlists and I'm running it on Ubuntu Linux and install it via svn and is not using the official installer.

    If I would have voted based on my feeling from the forum, the situation would be completely different, then I wouldn't advice anyone to upgrade unless they want to help beta testing and tracking down all the bugs. Seems to be a lot of issues for Windows users and some issues related to artworks and playlists, cuesheets and other things which doesn't exist or doesn't cause problem in my setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrueC View Post
    What's the deal with all the scanning bugs? I write computer software for a living and I've had to write DB population stuff. Just why the <*censored*> is this causing so many problems? It's meat-and-potatoes stuff. An application like SB server and it can't even reliably build a list of music?
    The complexity is that there isn't a clear specification for the source of the data, the tagging format. Try populating a database based on files and all you know is that the files are based on text, there is a format which most of the files tries to use but there are many many different variants and interpretation of this format and the files are produce with many different tools, also some that have interpreted the specification incorrectly and some that contains bugs themselves.

    On top of this, you have to make the solution work on basically every computer platform available on the market, Linux, OSX, Windows, FreeBSD, various NAS boxes, SqueezeOS, ....

    This is all very different from implementing a DB population routine based on a file format which you know, which follows the specification and which you have complete test files for.

    My opinion is that the only way to guarantee the quality is:
    - Structured testing, strongly recommended to be performed mostly through automatic test cases which are executed after each build with a huge set if different files
    - Through extensive beta testing where end users use their own files

    Logitech just decided to release it before they had done the above, primarily they shortened the beta testing a lot, and the result is what we see in the forum. If you don't test something properly it's going to contain a lot of serious bugs, it's as simple as that. From my perspective it would have been a lot smarter to hold the release a few days and instead release it in beginning of next week when they had fixed most of the serious bugs, with the current strategy they have destroyed their reputation even further, but there probably is a reason why they released it already this week, we just don't know why because it's something only known internally within Logitech.

    However, there is a positive side, I don't think the bug fixing speed has been anywhere close to the rate we have seen during the last 24 hours for a very long time. There is a lot of bug fixing activity within Logitech at the moment. So even if it's a bit frustrating at the moment, I believe the current scenario will force Logitech to get to a stable 7.6.1 release a lot faster than if they hadn't released 7.6.0 already this week.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrueC View Post
    Anyway maybe it's just a bad impression that the forum is giving. So I've created a poll. For now I'm holding off upgrading.
    Just don't expect the poll to reflect the reality, many of the users currently reading the forum is reading it because they have some problem, most of the users which have a working setup isn't reading this forum at the moment because it's just a lot of people with complaints/rants posting.

    I'm pretty sure the poll is going to indicate something very negative, a lot more negative than what's really the case.

    However, having said that, I'd personally advice people who like a stable setup to wait a bit before upgrading to 7.6. 7.6 at the moment has beta test quality but not production quality.

    The best we can do as a community at the moment is to:
    - Help new users with problem finding solutions or finding the reasons to the problem
    - Make sure any users which aren't satisfied posts their problem at the official support forum to make Logitech support staff realize they have a big problem. The official support forum is: http://forums.logitech.com
    - Refer any users who like help investigating their issue to the official support channel when we feel we can't help them any further. The official support channel is found behind the "Support" link at the top of this forum. Simply try to help them if you feel it's possible and refer them to the official support channel otherwise.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

  4. #4
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    I've been using a sb from 5.1 or something, I still have a functioning sb2.
    I've upgraded to 7.6 but haven't really tested it yet so I can't comment on this particular update but I can comment on the updates over the years. The system has always been very buggy and each time there is a new release there are large amounts of problems.
    The previous poster erland was quiet correct in stating the large numbers of different file formats and tagging is causing some of the problems.
    To this end could Logitech not produce a programme that will 'fix' the tags etc of all your music files. This would need to be an optional scheme of course but it would mean that if users used the program we would have a level playing field so to speak which would make debugging easier and the sb more reliable. At a stroke it should remove scanning problems which seem to cause most heartache.

  5. #5
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    I haven't had any SBS 7.6 related problems yet, but that may be because the particular feature set I use doesn't tickle any bugs. The upgrade went smoothly. No artwork problems, either, but I keep all my artwork as separate jpegs in the folders.

    I do use CustomScan and CustomBrowse, and both those are much faster in 7.6. Menu browsing is now very snappy.

  6. #6
    Senior Member aubuti's Avatar
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    I used 7.6.0 for a while about a year ago on my test VM, and then used it only sparingly until recently. Then two weeks ago I transitioned my regular system -- the one the family (who has no interest in being beta testers) uses -- to 7.6.0. Completely smooth transition. I asked my wife yesterday if she had had any problems, and she said none. She had noticed that the SB Controller menus are back the way she likes them, which is thanks to the customizability that came in 7.6.

    As the "maintainer" of the system I haven't had any problems. On the contrary, I find the scanning is a little faster, and the web ui is a little quicker. Some of the scanner changes revealed inconsistencies in my tagging that 7.5.x managed to gloss over. But a few minutes with mp3tag and I took care of those inconsistencies.

    I don't know how much difference it makes, but it's only fair to mention that I am actually running 7.6.0-r32706, which is the nightly from July 15. I'll get around to loading the official release at some point, but no hurry on my part.
    Last edited by aubuti; 2011-07-28 at 05:38.

  7. #7
    Senior Member pippin's Avatar
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    I believe the view on the complaints is biased by mainly people with issues posting.

    It's not like 7.5.x has been entirely without issues and from what I see, for example through feedback from iPeng users, I believe there will be at least as many users for whom 7.6 is a significant improvement as there are users for whom it's an issue.

    7.6 does away with two significant nuisances that did affect a lot of people:
    * it improves the performance on NAS systems. On ReadyNAS it's even dramatically better and I tend to believe that ReadyNAS is actually the most widely used NAS for the Squeezebox.
    * It does away with the virus scanner issue which bugged a lot of users with many of them not even knowing - they just realized that some stuff was missing or some queries failed.

    OK, admittedly iPeng users profit most (due to the faster artwork scaling) but I'm pretty sure it affects a lot of others as well.
    ---
    learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and
    Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
    at penguinlovesmusic.com
    New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    I've had very good luck with 7.6. Running on both Win7 x64 and on WHS 2011 (I do miss the WHS addin). I did have 2 issues. 1 the initial library scan didn't get hardly anything, but a new and changed picked up the rest. 2 (my problem) I discovered that I had some cover art (folder.jpg) that were hidden files, once I corrected the attribute all my cover art now shows. My library is both MP3 and FLAC with no embeded cover art in the music files.
    2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs
    Rock Solid with LMS 7.8.0 and WHS 2011

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    The complexity is that there isn't a clear specification for the source of the data, the tagging format. Try populating a database based on files and all you know is that the files are based on text, there is a format which most of the files tries to use but there are many many different variants and interpretation of this format and the files are produce with many different tools, also some that have interpreted the specification incorrectly and some that contains bugs themselves.
    Why doesn't Logitech just make use of existing heavily tested code like the taglib project for reading the files?
    It compiles for Windows, Mac and Linux. It would mean Logitech wouldn't need to invest so much time into reinventing the wheel and maintaining their own version of it.

  10. #10
    pski
    Guest
    I "cloned" my 1.9 VortexBox machine and did a yum update.

    The rescan is still going, and going, and going. If anything, the progress bars are hosed.

    I have a single album and it has a song I can play. Happy time ! Too bad it's a song I'm tired of.

    P

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