New 24bit/192kHz Squeezebox Product

[RonM]

>>real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it enrages them..<<

Okay, pski, I've finally decided to take issue with this. Mostly I agree with your posts, we're on the same wavelength.

But do you really think that volume is the sine qua non of quality audio? Or that enraging the neighbours can EVER be considered a "good thing"? I think not.

Cute phrase, but totally at odds with almost everything else you've said.

R.

[JezA]

.. surely a really good stereo should entertain the neighbours and have them knocking on your door asking you to turn it up ..!

[cliveb]

.. surely a really good stereo should entertain the neighbours and have them knocking on your door asking you to turn it up ..!

Quite so.

Many years ago it was a lovely summer Sunday afternoon. I had the windows open and happened to play Beethoven's 6th Symphony, at a fairly decent volume. When it finished, applause came from next door's back garden.

[atrocity]

Am I the only one more interested in the ability to play multichannel FLAC than in high bitrates? Granted, the two more or less go hand in hand.

It would rock my world if the next generation player had HDMI output through which I could play FLACs copied from DVD-A. And, while I'm dreaming, would respect the channel mapping tag so 4.0 and 4.1 material would output properly.

[Mnyb]

Am I the only one more interested in the ability to play multichannel FLAC than in high bitrates? Granted, the two more or less go hand in hand.

It would rock my world if the next generation player had HDMI output through which I could play FLACs copied from DVD-A. And, while I'm dreaming, would respect the channel mapping tag so 4.0 and 4.1 material would output properly.

I would like this to 6 ch sound is by far the most underestimed feature of DVDA everybody raves about 24/192 stereo ? A properly done 5.1 24/96 from for example AIX would blow this away or heck a 5 ch 16/44.1 too you can do so much moore with soundstage and spatial cues with more channels, and hey it's not a gimmick when done well it's very imersive.

The luddites prefered mono over stereo in the beginging too. Keen at shooting the messenger, stereo where gimmicky in the early days so they had a piont just like multi channel gimmics can be overused today. But there is nothing wrong with the aproach one could argue that acoustically 2 sound sources is the worst in creating acoustical interference etc use 1 or many instead.

[Robin Bowes]

On 06/14/2011 01:50 AM, Mnyb wrote:
> ... one could argue that acoustically 2 sound sources is the worst in
> creating acoustical interference etc use 1 or many instead.

You could, but you'd be wrong.

R.
--
"Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
http://www.theshackshakers.com/

[JohnSwenson]

Native multichannel is not going to happen. Two channelness is so massively ingrained into both the server and squeezeplay that it would take a complete start from scratch rewrite to do native multichannel.

The only way to do it with the existing system is to embed the multichannel into two channels and have a decoder outside the box split it up. You can already do this with DTS or DolbyDigital, but of course those are lossy formats. There is no reason why you can't do a lossless multichannel into two channel format, but you would need an external decoder. It certainly could be done and would have a much higher probability of happening than Logitech redesigning the Touch to do it directly.

One possibility would be to take your multichannel input, flac encode it, then parcel it out into 2 channel 24/96. You might be able to get 4 channels of 24/96 into two with flac encoding but there is no way to get 5.1 24/96. You could do it if you went with 24/192 as the "carrier" format, but the Touch's output can't do that unless you use USB. You COULD implement a simple USB driver that took the data from the Touch decoder and shoved it out over USB, bypassing ALSA etc. The outside world device would get the data and convert it to whatever you want.

The way the Touch has been architected this would not be too hard, it would take a replacement for the jive_alsa process which can easily be added to the Touch. You would have to modify the player capabilities file on the server so it will allow 24/192 files to be sent as is.

Of course there are no standards for any of this so one would have to be devised and then software and hardware written to support it.

It COULD work but would take a lot of effort and would probably need some very enthusiastic group of people to push it through and probably provide the funds to implement things.

Any of you that want this so much willing to take it on?

John S.

[earwaxer9]

There are people out there who say that the improvement from 96 to 192
exceeds that from 44 to 96: It's the final step where veils are lifted, music takes on an analogue-like ease and flow etc.
I am not really sure that there is any need to go over 44 kHz (take a look over on hydrogen audio if you dare). I'm not even sure that there exists any program material which has information recorded in the frequency range 96-192. There seem to be frequent exposees of the shortage of over 44kHz program material
Why stop at 192kHz- why not 384 (which some DACs can handle).

I havent really heard this big outcry for the higher resolutions. I'm still getting more out of 16/44.1. The last chapter has not bet written for redbook. I'm not saying that PCM should be played "as is" off the disk. Much to the contrary. With that said, the solution is not going to higher and higher resolutions. I'm with the reasonable camp that looks more at the numbers and keeps things within sane expectations.

[Mnyb]

Native multichannel is not going to happen. Two channelness is so massively ingrained into both the server and squeezeplay that it would take a complete start from scratch rewrite to do native multichannel.

The only way to do it with the existing system is to embed the multichannel into two channels and have a decoder outside the box split it up. You can already do this with DTS or DolbyDigital, but of course those are lossy formats. There is no reason why you can't do a lossless multichannel into two channel format, but you would need an external decoder. It certainly could be done and would have a much higher probability of happening than Logitech redesigning the Touch to do it directly.

One possibility would be to take your multichannel input, flac encode it, then parcel it out into 2 channel 24/96. You might be able to get 4 channels of 24/96 into two with flac encoding but there is no way to get 5.1 24/96. You could do it if you went with 24/192 as the "carrier" format, but the Touch's output can't do that unless you use USB. You COULD implement a simple USB driver that took the data from the Touch decoder and shoved it out over USB, bypassing ALSA etc. The outside world device would get the data
and convert it to whatever you want.

The way the Touch has been architected this would not be too hard, it would take a replacement for the jive_alsa process which can easily be added to the Touch. You would have to modify the player capabilities file on the server so it will allow 24/192 files to be sent as is.

Of course there are no standards for any of this so one would have to be devised and then software and hardware written to support it.

It COULD work but would take a lot of effort and would probably need some very enthusiastic group of
people to push it through and probably provide the funds to implement things.

Any of you that want this so much willing to take it on?

John S.

I see the problems, wonder if logitech ever is going to develop a squeezebox with hdmi then you have a standard interface that takes multichannel pcm ,8ch as the standard is now.
Your idea needs some purpose built converter recieving multichannel pcm over usb ?

if you have a htpc with hdmi you can probably play these files. It seems easier to build one of thoose.

but the bigger problem is the lack off content, most vendors like linn and HD- tracks does not have such files, you get them by ripping your own DVD-A and the odd old quad master leaked to the internet.
Itrax sells 5.1 pcm hirez but itrax AIX does not release much these days ?

So it's a great missed opurtunity not even audiophiles wants it , they are happy to buy 40 year old analog masters as 24/192khz 2ch

[JezA]

Quite so.

Many years ago it was a lovely summer Sunday afternoon. I had the windows open and happened to play Beethoven's 6th Symphony, at a fairly decent volume. When it finished, applause came from next door's back garden.

Must be the 100As - my upstairs neighbour says he relaxes listening to mine also - although maybe it's Beethoven - I love the 6th and play it a lot.