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  1. #1
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    soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0

    Hi folks.

    I forked this thread over here, since the title of that other thread was kind of misleading.
    We were actually discussing my newest Toolbox 2.0 since quite some time over there.

    Since last weekend my Touch Toolbox 2.0 is available.


    If you have any comments/questions let me know. Since last weekend
    I'm continuously finetuning the blog based on the feedback I got.

    Just follow my signature to try the modifications.
    (Reading the blog will for sure be more time consuming than implementing the actual modifications.)

    Enjoy.

    Cheers
    Last edited by soundcheck; 2011-01-14 at 05:31.
    ::: Touch Toolbox and more ::: by soundcheck

  2. #2
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    I do have a specific question for you.

    How is the bitstream to the DAC actually improved? I fully understand the less is more concept, but does this affect/change the bitstream to cause the perceived improvements? Why do I perceive better treble extension and better imaging? Is only jitter, or is there more to it?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flextreme View Post
    I do have a specific question for you.

    How is the bitstream to the DAC actually improved? I fully understand the less is more concept, but does this affect/change the bitstream to cause the perceived improvements? Why do I perceive better treble extension and better imaging? Is only jitter, or is there more to it?
    It's trivial to prove that the bitstream is unchanged...
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flextreme View Post
    I do have a specific question for you.

    How is the bitstream to the DAC actually improved? I fully understand the less is more concept, but does this affect/change the bitstream to cause the perceived improvements? Why do I perceive better treble extension and better imaging? Is only jitter, or is there more to it?
    Since the actual data won't be affected, it has to be timing - jitter effects. This would also mean that your DAC has poor jitter rejection performance. Data integrity on all Squeezeboxes has been proved by DTS cinema stream data, any changes and it doesn't decode.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWr View Post
    Since the actual data won't be affected, it has to be timing - jitter effects. This would also mean that your DAC has poor jitter rejection performance. Data integrity on all Squeezeboxes has been proved by DTS cinema stream data, any changes and it doesn't decode.
    Which in practice would have to be noise carried on the s/pdif that makes it harder for the DAC to recover the clock accurately (hence jitter).
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  6. #6
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    Exactly

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
    Hi folks.

    I forked this thread over here, since the title of that other thread was kind of misleading.
    We were actually discussing my newest Toolbox 2.0 since quite some time over there.

    Since last weekend my Touch Toolbox 2.0 is available.


    If you have any comments/questions let me know. Since last weekend
    I'm continuously finetuning the blog based on the feedback I got.

    Just follow my signature to try the modifications.
    (Reading the blog for sure will be more time consuming that implementing the modifications.)

    Enjoy.

    Cheers
    Dear Klaus,

    Just wanted to add my heartfelt compliments and a huge THANKS to you for doing this for the community. Not only are the mods you've so kindly prepared for us super easy to apply (even for a non-technical person such as myself), but much more importantly, the end result is absolutely staggering. I simply couldn't believe my ears last night after the Touch did its last reboot, and I played a few of my favorite tunes. There's now just so much more of EVERYTHING! More sound, more music, more air, more soundstage, more presence, and overall, more relaxed, less nervous sound.

    Keep in mind that, due to the severe constraints in my current layout (I live in a very old house and hence cannot easily rearrange the wiring), I wasn't able to implement the disabling of the WLAN mod. I am planning to do that as soon as possible. Even so, the changes that all the other mods have cumulatively done to the transport are breathtaking, to say the least.

    I can only hope that, once I disable the wireless and go with the ethernet, as you strongly recommend, I will stand to reap even more benefits.

    Once again, thanks a million for giving us the ability to achieve such staggering improvements in the sound quality.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Klaus

    Cool, I just compared my old SB 3 (synced) to the modded SQ Touch on my SuperNait. Because there is almost no delay switching back and forward (the supernait DAC takes about a second switching digital inputs), it was quite easy to compare.

    When I originally compared the touch to the SB3 after purchasing, it was extremely difficult to tell the difference. (mayby this is caused by the reclocking feature in the Supernait DAC)

    I compared the Touch with both the mod enabled and disabled to the SB 3.

    Guys... this is the real deal.

    Doing A/B comparisons between the unmodded Touch and SB3 ... they were very similar, like expected.

    Comparing the modded Touch to the SB3 is a revelation. The difference is large enough to make a blind A/B test obsolete and a waste of my time.

    Clearly more detail in all frequencies (not only the treble as I originally thought). The result is: More AIR / Ambiance / Better positioning-separation of instruments / 3D rendering of the soundstage / realism.

    Highs do have more “impact/dynamics”, which is very welcome with the 'darker' sound of both my Supernait and Harbeth Super HL5. Textures are much better, especially with classical instruments.

    The considerable level of added resolution has the additional advantage that you get more musical impact at lower volume.

    What is so cool about this, before the mod I always felt I was missing out on something. I truly considered changing my set-up. Mayby go back to Nait 5i (that is where my NAIM love started), downgrade to Nait XS, mayby nDac would fix things. Or even change speakers (was considering PMC Fact.8).

    I thought I hit the limits of my system after the high-cap upgrade (which is undoubtely a fantastic upgrade), and especially that the resolution of the Harbeth's could not be bettered. Interestingly, I was also sceptical about the impact of jitter. I was so wrong in so many ways.

    I am sure I will get upgradetites some day, but for now, I can rediscover my SuperNait+Harbeth combo.

    I never tested it, but I can easily imagine that the improvement on the analog outputs is real. However, that the difference would be so obvious on the Supernait truly surprised me, especially because its DAC supposed to re-clock the bit stream.

    Klaus wrote the mod, and deserves a lot of credit. It is simple to implement if you follow his instructions carefully. I will donate a modest fee for his cause, he surely deserves it
    Last edited by Flextreme; 2011-01-13 at 18:39.

  9. #9
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Flextreme View Post
    ...

    Doing A/B comparisons between the unmodded Touch and SB3 ... they were very similar, like expected.
    hmm - are you saying you couldn't hear any difference between an sb3 and an unmodded Touch?
    That would hardly be "expected", given the large difference in their respective circuits...

    Most people have reported a significant improvement on both analogue and digital outputs.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    11
    The only explanation I can give is that my Supernait reclocks, putting both devices in the same playing field. (guessing here, I am not educated on this subject).

    Seems like the mod does something which really makes a difference. The supernait only reclocks up to a certain threshold (thats whats being said on the NAIM forum), possibly the mod pulls jitter below this threshold and alas.

    I was super sceptical it would make a difference on my system, thats why I asked about the impact on the digital stream.

    check out the reponses on the NAIM forum on this topic. http://forums.naimaudio.com/eve/foru...7/m/2742938737

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