Newbie with Questions for the Experts

[tmauceri]

I've been wondering about this "soundcheck's Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0" Less is better so they say, that's why we have direct in. But I'm a confirmed Audessey and ProLogic II Guy. Steps 1,2 and 3 are easy enough and I'm already configured that way. I don't plan or want to mess with installing scripts and files. But I'm curious about having the server decode vs. the SB touch. Whats the consensus. Once again thanks to everyone for all the help. I've got about 500 CDs ripped and having a grand old time with my new toys.

[garym]

I've been wondering about this "soundcheck's Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 2.0" Less is better so they say, that's why we have direct in. But I'm a confirmed Audessey and ProLogic II Guy. Steps 1,2 and 3 are easy enough and I'm already configured that way. I don't plan or want to mess with installing scripts and files. But I'm curious about having the server decode vs. the SB touch. Whats the consensus. Once again thanks to everyone for all the help. I've got about 500 CDs ripped and having a grand old time with my new toys.

I can't speak to the consensus, but plenty of smart people on this forum that know a lot more than me don't think that decoding on the server side vs Touch matters to the ultimate sound quality. Try it both ways and see what you think. It's just a couple of settings in SbS > Settings > File Types. But beware of the placebo effect....if you can, get someone else to make the changes and listen a bit both ways so you are doing a blind test. For me, there is absolutely no difference in either my TOUCH or my TRANSPORTER.

[guidof]

But I'm curious about having the server decode vs. the SB touch. Whats the consensus. Once again thanks to everyone for all the help. I've got about 500 CDs ripped and having a grand old time with my new toys.

I'm not sure about consensus either. However, my subjective impression is that decoding on the server yields marginally clearer sound. As has been pointed out, it's easy to try. No SW mod necessary!

But don't just listen repeatedly to the same brief sound clip. Try it either way for a couple of days at the time. (I know, it's not quite A/B, but if you listen repeatedly to the same brief clip, you will very likely find no difference).

However, the full benefit of soundcheck's mods is only likely to be had when most of the SW mods are implemented. I followed pretty much his suggestions, except that I'm still on wireless and, again subjectively, am very satisfied with the result.

Guido F.

[garym]

(I know, it's not quite A/B, but if you listen repeatedly to the same brief clip, you will very likely find no difference).

I'm not saying you believe this, but just for others' info, a blind A/B comparison does NOT have to be listening to short snips of music over a short time. One can listen for "A" for days and then "B" for days (or weeks!). The key of course is that the listener doesn't know which is A and which is B. Just take some notes about your listening experiences. Then AFTER THE FACT, compare those notes/times/days with the information about the setup on those days/times.

[guidof]

I'm not saying you believe this, but just for others' info, a blind A/B comparison does NOT have to be listening to short snips of music over a short time.

Quite true!

I just think that, to the extent that there are differences to be perceived, they are more likely to become apparent when listening to a variety of recordings over extended periods.

Sometimes judgments are formed based solely on repeated listening to brief musical segments, whether blind or not. Yet, this is not how we ordinarily listen to music. While this is not necessarily invalid when the differences are gross, it seems to me questionable when the differences are of the kind of musical refinement that soundcheck's mods attempt to accomplish.

Guido F.

[firedog]

I can't speak to the consensus, but plenty of smart people on this forum that know a lot more than me don't think that decoding on the server side vs Touch matters to the ultimate sound quality. Try it both ways and see what you think. It's just a couple of settings in SbS > Settings > File Types. But beware of the placebo effect....if you can, get someone else to make the changes and listen a bit both ways so you are doing a blind test. For me, there is absolutely no difference in either my TOUCH or my TRANSPORTER.

In general I'm in the camp that the soundcheck mods make a small but noticeable improvement - a little less hardness, a little more roundness to the sound. I'm guessing this is because of less RF interference.

As far as the specific server side question: I don't notice a difference in SQ, but I do notice a difference in performance. Less delays, clicks, rebufferings, etc. Especially with 24/96 material. Not that there are a lot of problems when using the onboard decoding, just that they are more or less eliminated when switching to server side. That alone is a good enough reason for me to make the switch. There is one small downside to server side though. If you have an older SB player that doesn't native play hi-res, and play it synched to a Touch, the hi-res won't play over the system (either player) when the syched player is engaged, as the server will try to output the file in hi-res, and your "lesser" player won't be able to handle it. You get an "unsupported sample rate" error. This doesn't happen when you decode onboard at each player, as each player decodes at a sample rate it can handle.

[Mnyb]

Using ethernet can make 24/96 more snappy wether you decode on server or not.
it was almost impossible to use wifi and 24/96 the first weeks of Touch life but this has improved greatly .

Seems like WPA2 decryption uses a lot of cpu making it somewhat sluggish ? to handle.
Run ethernet wires if possible.
The whole experience is much faster an snappier when using the screen cuing up lists etc (then you can safely kill the wifi drivers etc in Touch saving even more cpu cycles) .

Just try it wired I don't think you want to go back if you tried it.

This wifi fad has gone a bit to far , remember when wifi was an option on the SB3 (you could buy one without wifi board) .

Wifi is not a real network, it does a very good job faking a network but it's not the same as a real network

So if networkable things like a server a router and a Touch is sitting at the same place all the time why not wire the stuff ?
Wifi is for the mobile stuff like laptops, Radio ? etc that you lug around the house.

Think of wifi as a finite resource you can "save" wifi by wire up as much stuff as possible, not just squeezeboxes and then you have a lot of wifi when you need it.

[Phil Leigh]

Quite true!

I just think that, to the extent that there are differences to be perceived, they are more likely to become apparent when listening to a variety of recordings over extended periods.

Sometimes judgments are formed based solely on repeated listening to brief musical segments, whether blind or not. Yet, this is not how we ordinarily listen to music. While this is not necessarily invalid when the differences are gross, it seems to me questionable when the differences are of the kind of musical refinement that soundcheck's mods attempt to accomplish.

Guido F.

I don't want to get into a big heated debate about this, but to do a meaningful assessment over time, one needs to switch back to the original settings occasionally, otherwise there is no comparative baseline - it's exactly like the "burn-in" situation. If you only ever listen to the new settings, your brain WILL forget completely what the old settings sounded like and WILL gradually re-programme itself to accept the new settings as the norm.

[guidof]

I don't want to get into a big heated debate about this, but to do a meaningful assessment over time, one needs to switch back to the original settings occasionally, otherwise there is no comparative baseline - it's exactly like the "burn-in" situation. If you only ever listen to the new settings, your brain WILL forget completely what the old settings sounded like and WILL gradually re-programme itself to accept the new settings as the norm.

You won't get an argument about this from me! By all means, one should switch back to the original setting for comparison purposes.

In the case of soundcheck's mods, this is easily accomplished either by doing a factory reset or by using his "tt" tool (his paragraph 1.7). Of course, one should also reset the FLAC/PCM decoding on the server, if used.

Guido F.

[tmauceri]

I noticed that there is new software for the server v7.5.3. When I click to download it wants to know what operating system I have. The VBA is running Fedora release 14. This doesn't match the selections on my squeezebox.com. As I think about this I am wondering how do I get the new software on to the VBA. Is this done on the VBA web UI. Does Vortexbox handle this, in other words do they provide access to the upgrade via the web UI. I am confused?