Interesting post.

[RonM]

Actually, I don't think anyone has ever said (in this thread) that violins are sonically indistinguishable. Of course they sound different from one another. To my mind, there are three key questions:

1. How different are Stradivari from one another, as distinct from different than violins from other makers? In other words, how does the within-group variance compare to the between group variance? There seems to be some consensus that the Stradivari have certain common characteristics and strengths, although there is also significant variance within the group.

2. Can Stradivari routinely be identified as Stradivari in pure listening tests (closely related to question 1). This is less clear, and from what I've read there is evidence to the contrary, despite the consensus that there is a "Stadivarious sound". Perhaps expert listeners in very good listening circumstances can do it routinely, but it's not apparently easy.

3. Are Stradivari clearly superior instruments to other quality fiddles? Of course there are a few who will claim this, but many masters prefer their Guarneri instruments, or others from modern makers. This is the key point made earlier in the thread, which is that there is not a lot to choose from among this group of superior instruments.

One of the great debating techniques is to set up a straw horse, easily dismantled, and then claim victory. But it's a cheap victory.

R.

[ncarver]

One of the great debating techniques is to set up a straw horse, easily dismantled, and then claim victory. But it's a cheap victory

And another favored debating technique is to claim you never said something that you did. Ho, hum. Just the kind of response I expected. You clearly stated that Dan's Strad comments were "quite right," of course disagreeing with me after I said that he "does not exactly have his facts correct." Now I have rebutted a number of his claims with detailed evidence and all Ron can do is whine that I am not arguing fairly. I will let the evidence I posted speak for itself: there have not been multiple tests with concert violinists, the tests that have been done lack scientific validity, the results even from these poor tests have not been at the level of chance, and it is extremely unlikely that a trained listener would not be able to "tell the difference between" (Dan's words) two different violins. Hard to see what is left that is "quite right" in Dan's Strad statement, but people are obviously free to believe whatever nutty thing they want to believe.

No more for me here--promise I will not look at this thread again. So say any rubbish you want Ron. Others can PM me if they want more info from my search. Please take a look at the violin maker's site!

[Nonreality]

And another favored debating technique is to claim you never said something that you did. Ho, hum. Just the kind of response I expected. You clearly stated that Dan's Strad comments were "quite right," of course disagreeing with me after I said that he "does not exactly have his facts correct." Now I have rebutted a number of his claims with detailed evidence and all Ron can do is whine that I am not arguing fairly. I will let the evidence I posted speak for itself: there have not been multiple tests with concert violinists, the tests that have been done lack scientific validity, the results even from these poor tests have not been at the level of chance, and it is extremely unlikely that a trained listener would not be able to "tell the difference between" (Dan's words) two different violins. Hard to see what is left that is "quite right" in Dan's Strad statement, but people are obviously free to believe whatever nutty thing they want to believe.

No more for me here--promise I will not look at this thread again. So say any rubbish you want Ron. Others can PM me if they want more info from my search. Please take a look at the violin maker's site!

I bet your PM is just filling up. If you need a server to help out, I'd use strawmanservers.com Nice system but it only saves one out of 40 requests at a time but should serve your needs nicely.