Back off

**bluegaspode** · 2010-06-20, 12:51

Hi Nazgul,

I for my part only tell members that repeat their rants over and over again that I don't want to listen to it anymore, because this doesn't help to get their problems solved. Neither on the short nor the long run.

And even telling those users that their complaints were better somewhere else in my opinion is a way of helping them (thats the reason I'm here - to help them) - because as often pointed out - ranting here is the least effective way of getting anything changed.
As some might not know this, it is our task to point this out to new users.

This has nothing to do with 'posting about the poster'.

Also in a community to be staying alive its important to keep a good tone and a constructive environment. Otherwise the community would be dying (or we had a forum which only consists of grumbling members).
This doesn't help anyone. Not you, not me and not logitech (though we don't need to take care for logitech

)

'Back Off' definitely isn't the right tone, so I'm afraid I need to tell you my opinion, that I'd like you to get over to other topics, which are more constructive..
Describe your problems with your SB-devices, try to let yourself being helped by the community. This is the reason that this forums exists.

The target audience for rants should be logitech. They listen at other channels.

**Phil Leigh** · 2010-06-20, 13:08

Originally posted by Nazgul

If you don't like it then feel free to say so, but telling people they shouldn't write it is WRONG. This is a public user forum, if people are posting about the SBR then they are in the right place no matter what they say as long as it meets the forum rules. Everyone look in the mirror and repeat this, "This is not my forum, other people use it too."

I don't like it.

Physician, heal thyself.

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 14:02

Originally posted by Phil Leigh

Physician, heal thyself.

I think your context is a little skewed with this jab. Think about what I wrote and what you're insinuating. Valid?

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 14:08

Originally posted by bluegaspode

Hi Nazgul,

I for my part only tell members that repeat their rants over and over again that I don't want to listen to it anymore, because this doesn't help to get their problems solved. Neither on the short nor the long run.

And even telling those users that their complaints were better somewhere else in my opinion is a way of helping them (thats the reason I'm here - to help them) - because as often pointed out - ranting here is the least effective way of getting anything changed.
As some might not know this, it is our task to point this out to new users.

This has nothing to do with 'posting about the poster'.

Also in a community to be staying alive its important to keep a good tone and a constructive environment. Otherwise the community would be dying (or we had a forum which only consists of grumbling members).
This doesn't help anyone. Not you, not me and not logitech (though we don't need to take care for logitech

)

'Back Off' definitely isn't the right tone, so I'm afraid I need to tell you my opinion, that I'd like you to get over to other topics, which are more constructive..
Describe your problems with your SB-devices, try to let yourself being helped by the community. This is the reason that this forums exists.

The target audience for rants should be logitech. They listen at other channels.

You are correct on nearly every point. Helpful suggestions about where to post are certainly useful and valid. But they also aren't what my rant was about. I've been reading many posts where people simply say, (again paraphrasing) "Stop saying that, that isn't what this forum is for." and that is a problem in a public product user forum. If customers come here through thevery visible link on mysqueezebox.com and see that people with valid complaints are being told to "put a sock in it," then you'll have some very frustrated people indeed.

This forum is for users who use a product, not for users who use a product and happen to spend entirely too much time on the company forum.

**pfarrell** · 2010-06-20, 15:22

Back off

On 06/20/2010 07:19 AM, Nazgul wrote:
>
> I've been reading these forums for a bit now and I see a pattern of BS
> coming from some "senior members" that try to control how people
> discuss the SBW. Look, if you folks don't like reading negative
> comments about the radio then feel free to not read them or possibly
> comment about how you disagree.

And how, pray tell, can one know that a posting is useless without
reading it?

> However, trying to silence people or
> negate their comments by saying, "this isn't the complaint department
> take it elsewhere" (paraphrasing) is BS.

Clearly you can't understand what you are reading. We are not trying to
censor or silence anyone. What we are doing is pointing out that the
posting of whining is pointless, since no one will do anything about it.

One definition of insanity is "repeating the same thing and expecting
different results"

Posting complaints here is pointless, no one with power to do anything
reads them. There will be *no* action.

--
Pat Farrell

Pat Farrell's Website of wonder and information

http://www.pfarrell.com/

**Skinny** · 2010-06-20, 15:33

The fact is that SBR (and related talk) schould be taken elsewhere. The proper place would be the Duet forum..

-Skinny

**bluegaspode** · 2010-06-20, 15:34

Originally posted by Nazgul

This forum is for users who use a product, not for users who use a product and happen to spend entirely too much time on the company forum.

So you still have a problem:
if the people "who use a product and happen to spend entirely too much time on the company forum" vanish, then noone would answer the "users who use a product".
And they will vanish if people are just here to let go of their frustrations.

Logitech support is only watching the other 'company forum'

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Wireless-Music-Systems/bd-p/WMS_General

here you need the goodwill of the community (i.e. users who shouldn't spend so much time here). So be nice to us

**Phil Leigh** · 2010-06-20, 16:13

Originally posted by Nazgul

I think your context is a little skewed with this jab. Think about what I wrote and what you're insinuating. Valid?

I am insinuating nothing. I am asking you to look in that mirror too. People who live in glass houses...

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 16:50

I'm not saying the senior people should vanish, I'm saying that the folks who tell other people that their comments have no place here need to stop. This is a FORUM. It is for discussion by definition, positive and negative. Trying to shut people up on a forum is wrong.

And let me be specific lest I be accused of hypocrisy: it is wrong unless it is in support of the basic function of this FORUM--to communicate. Promoting forum communication is in itself of worth and not the doctor proving himself in need of medication.

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 16:57

Originally posted by pfarrell

And how, pray tell, can one know that a posting is useless without
reading it?

Brilliant! You got me. I am completely invalidated.

Originally posted by pfarrell

Clearly you can't understand what you are reading. We are not trying to
censor or silence anyone. What we are doing is pointing out that the
posting of whining is pointless, since no one will do anything about it.

Useless to you maybe, but we're not here just for you are we? Are we? I've seen many helpful posts that start out as whining.

Originally posted by pfarrell

One definition of insanity is "repeating the same thing and expecting
different results"

Like telling people who are justified in their anger and frustration that they should keep quite over and over again? Again, Brilliant!

Originally posted by pfarrell

Posting complaints here is pointless, no one with power to do anything
reads them. There will be *no* action.

I don't think so, forums are for mutual support as well, you really need to accept that.

**0xdeadbeef** · 2010-06-20, 16:59

Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the Radio here.
Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for each and every design flaw on the user.

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 17:08

tldr;

Look, if you people want to setup a private forum to discuss this stuff then by all means do so and set all the rules you want. This, however, is the public forum for a consumer product and all discussion about the product, positive and negative, is valid whether you like it or not. The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not the complainers.

**Nazgul** · 2010-06-20, 17:11

Originally posted by 0xdeadbeef

Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the Radio here.
Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for each and every design flaw on the user.

Exactly correct. I'm not making a blanket statement about Senior Users, I am one even though this account is new (which should make no difference whatsoever on a public support forum). The bad apples are the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't think I needed to name names.

**Phil Leigh** · 2010-06-20, 17:19

You are all missing the point. There's every point in using this forum to get help, advice etc from the community and to raise/discuss issues. There's no point in coming here for any kind of official advice/support/warranty issues/venting your spleen about how disappointed you are with something, because no-one who can offer you any comfort is on here. You need to use the official channels for that. This is NOT an official support channel. I wish it still was - it used to be - but it hasn't been for a while now.

The "senior members" (there, I have finally used that phrase) who can offer help etc, if they can, will eventually stop doing so unless things calm down. This is not a veiled threat, it's just human nature. I don't have to do this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do have other things I could spend my free time on... I wanted to give something back to the "community" which helped me back in 2005. I couldn't do any useful coding (wrong skill set)...

Actually, I noticed a few months ago that several new members started to help others a lot and that really was great!. It's not about "senior" or not, it's about those who can help and want to help and those who need help.

The community provides a place where these folks can come together. Let's keep it that way.

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