Back off

[Nazgul]

And how, pray tell, can one know that a posting is useless without
reading it?

Brilliant! You got me. I am completely invalidated.

Clearly you can't understand what you are reading. We are not trying to
censor or silence anyone. What we are doing is pointing out that the
posting of whining is pointless, since no one will do anything about it.

Useless to you maybe, but we're not here just for you are we? Are we? I've seen many helpful posts that start out as whining.

One definition of insanity is "repeating the same thing and expecting
different results"

Like telling people who are justified in their anger and frustration that they should keep quite over and over again? Again, Brilliant!

Posting complaints here is pointless, no one with power to do anything
reads them. There will be *no* action.

I don't think so, forums are for mutual support as well, you really need to accept that.

[0xdeadbeef]

Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the Radio here.
Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for each and every design flaw on the user.

[Nazgul]

Look, if you people want to setup a private forum to discuss this stuff then by all means do so and set all the rules you want. This, however, is the public forum for a consumer product and all discussion about the product, positive and negative, is valid whether you like it or not. The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not the complainers.

[Nazgul]

Well, there are senior members and senior members. Indeed it's only a small club of senior members who try to scare away people with a a non-euphemistic opinion on SB products. Then again, if this soothes you, even a senior member is not welcome to utter the truth about the Radio here.
Each and every thread that tries to discuss the blatant bugs of the Radio is destroyed by the very same people who try to put the blame for each and every design flaw on the user.

Exactly correct. I'm not making a blanket statement about Senior Users, I am one even though this account is new (which should make no difference whatsoever on a public support forum). The bad apples are the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't think I needed to name names.

[Phil Leigh]

You are all missing the point. There's every point in using this forum to get help, advice etc from the community and to raise/discuss issues. There's no point in coming here for any kind of official advice/support/warranty issues/venting your spleen about how disappointed you are with something, because no-one who can offer you any comfort is on here. You need to use the official channels for that. This is NOT an official support channel. I wish it still was - it used to be - but it hasn't been for a while now.

The "senior members" (there, I have finally used that phrase) who can offer help etc, if they can, will eventually stop doing so unless things calm down. This is not a veiled threat, it's just human nature. I don't have to do this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do have other things I could spend my free time on... I wanted to give something back to the "community" which helped me back in 2005. I couldn't do any useful coding (wrong skill set)...

Actually, I noticed a few months ago that several new members started to help others a lot and that really was great!. It's not about "senior" or not, it's about those who can help and want to help and those who need help.

The community provides a place where these folks can come together. Let's keep it that way.

[bluegaspode]

This, however, is the public forum for a consumer product and all discussion about the product, positive and negative, is valid whether you like it or not. The silencers in the crowd are the annoyances, not the complainers.

I think you have a very valid point here.

Though I differentiate between:
1) discussion - positive and negative.
2) rants.

Just an example for 1):
I'm very willing to discuss bad design decisions of logitech - if it leads to:
- finding / documenting workarounds for the design flaws, or
- getting the conclusion that what the user wants doesn't work
-- and he either needs to wait for it to work for an indefinite time
-- accept it
-- return the device.

If you look at the current alarm discussion we are far away from such a type of discussion.
We only again and again in a loop of 'Why the hell could they do such a design these bastards'. This is what I personally want to silence (and now do for myself for certain users with the help of the forums ignore function).

The bad apples are the ones we all know about, and therefore, I didn't think I needed to name names.

Tell me at least if you count me in. I wouldn't know who I'd call a bad apple overall.
Oh by the way - remember your first post :

At this point you are posting about the poster and YOU are in violation of the forum "rules".

[Nazgul]

Oh by the way - remember your first post :

Exactly why I haven't named names and am reluctant to be more specific than "senior users". And please, putting quotes around words does not always entail direct reference, it can also express generalities, like "reasonably intelligent".

[Nojelc]

Let me see,

Do I want to visit a forum that is primarily full of people who are

a) struggling to get their SBs working as they wish them to and are mostly bitching, moaning & complaining. or

b) very happy with their SBs and have a great deal of experience and technical knowledge and are willing to spend a bit of their time helping me to get the best out of mine?

Hmmmm, hard choice!

[0xdeadbeef]

Might be a surprise, but this forum's intention is not primarily to make you happy. It is a place for the community. And if the community gets upset since Logitech completely messed the software and is unwilling and/or unable to fix it in 8 months, then it is no surprise that this becomes a less happy place - as a reflection of the bitter reality.

If you look for a happy place, there might be better alternatives. It is however kinda upsetting to demand that the unhappy customers should keep quiet and stay away just to keep the small fraction of happy owners happy.

It is even more upsetting that some of the people who demand that we should keep quiet in the Radio forum don't even own a Radio.

[ModelCitizen]

The sensible thing for a user who wants to vent at the products is to do it in the official Logitech forums, where there is a chance Logitech will see it. I propose that any threads that start with a rant (or perhaps any posts that rant) receive *one* single post in reply containing a nice friendly request to make the same post in the Logitech forum. Something along the lines of:

Logitech do not read these forums. Please leave this post in their official forums where we hope they will take some notice of it:


Ooh... 3-1

MC