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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenC View Post
    I haven't tried a huge number of programmes, but those I have (from Radio 4 A-Z) have been ok.

    Maybe we have a small stay of execution...

    Stephen.
    Same here.
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  2. #152
    So it's working again, which is very good news!

    (As an aside, I use this almost every day, so I'm very pleased and the thanks due to bpa from me for his tireless work building and supporting it are immense.)

    When I spoke about the JSON feeds a few posts back, it looked like everything had been switched off, those included. Now it looks like the May 2017 date might actually be accurate, hopefully the JSON continuation will also pan out for the feeds that Extra relies on. Am I right in thinking that an "ExtraJSONParser.pm" and a change to the URL extensions in "default.opml" is what is needed to take advantage of this possibility (and presumably a tweak somewhere to call the JSON parser rather than the XML one)? I'm assuming(!) that a clone of "ExtraXMLParser.pm" but with the XML parser replaced with a suitably wired JSON one from CPAN will be relatively straightforward.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSammers View Post
    So it's working again, which is very good news!
    It is just a short reprieve.

    When I spoke about the JSON feeds a few posts back, it looked like everything had been switched off, those included. Now it looks like the May 2017 date might actually be accurate, hopefully the JSON continuation will also pan out for the feeds that Extra relies on. Am I right in thinking that an "ExtraJSONParser.pm" and a change to the URL extensions in "default.opml" is what is needed to take advantage of this possibility (and presumably a tweak somewhere to call the JSON parser rather than the XML one)? I'm assuming(!) that a clone of "ExtraXMLParser.pm" but with the XML parser replaced with a suitably wired JSON one from CPAN will be relatively straightforward.
    If only.

    If you look at the default.opml file - you'll see that each feed has its own parser - each of the 5 parsers would need to be updated. JSON also has some quirks compared to XML so it is never just a quick change of library call from "XMLin" to "from_json" as there are different ways of handling data structures (arrays vs list), missing items and defaults values.

    If JSON feeds are only going to work for a short time - is it worth the effort ? It would be better to spend time on a more durable solution.

  4. #154
    Ok - that's more complicated than I was hoping.

    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    If JSON feeds are only going to work for a short time - is it worth the effort ? It would be better to spend time on a more durable solution.
    If "durable" = "screen scraping", that's an interesting use of the word. What I'm wondering is if JSON will last until Nitro is the alternative, assuming it ever is allowed out to the public. You said earlier that Nitro didn't currently seem viable. Was that because of problems with privately assigned keys in an open source application (or some other specific issue your investigation turned up) or because you don't think public access is on the horizon?

    You probably have a better idea of a) how long the JSON extension is likely to last and b) whether the promises of public access to Nitro will ever come to fruition, assuming that would help. If not, the question is whether a few months (maybe longer?) of avoiding the probable instability of playing catchup to iPlayer web page changes (if that is the durable solution) would be worth it - but you've already indicated you don't think that is the case.
    Last edited by BobSammers; 2017-03-16 at 07:39.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSammers View Post
    .....If "durable" = "screen scraping", that's an interesting use of the word.
    See #145 - bpa definitely doesn't think that
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    See #145 - bpa definitely doesn't think that
    Agree - screen scraping is not durable but it is the last resort. With "screen scraping" I create a stick to beat myself.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSammers View Post
    What I'm wondering is if JSON will last until Nitro is the alternative, assuming it ever is allowed out to the public. You said earlier that Nitro didn't currently seem viable. Was that because of problems with privately assigned keys in an open source application (or some other specific issue your investigation turned up) or because you don't think public access is on the horizon?

    You probably have a better idea of a) how long the JSON extension is likely to last and b) whether the promises of public access to Nitro will ever come to fruition, assuming that would help. If not, the question is whether a few months (maybe longer?) of avoiding the probable instability of playing catchup to iPlayer web page changes (if that is the durable solution) would be worth it - but you've already indicated you don't think that is the case.
    At this stage, 2 years after announcement, I don't think Nitro is going public. Even BBC talked about a modded Nitro for non BBC users. T&Cs will only work for single user or compiled into an app otherwise every user has to get their own key !
    A quick looking at the way BBC apps work - there might be use of websockets which may be another more secure API.

    Eventually it comes down to whether vendors wants to offer specialised products (e.g. internet radios) which makes uses program data for on demand. If not then there is no "demand" for a public API beyond the current vendor XML feed.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    Agree - screen scraping is not durable but it is the last resort. With "screen scraping" I create a stick to beat myself.
    Please don't. You do far too much for us all as it is
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    If JSON feeds are only going to work for a short time - is it worth the effort ? It would be better to spend time on a more durable solution.
    There is now a date: May 1st 2018. An extra year with JSON and the "promise" (however vague) that:

    Work is underway in some areas of the BBC with a view to providing a durable successor to the decommissioned data views, and when the shape of this work is known, suitable communications will be put in place to direct the wider technology community towards that successor.

    Until that time, it is possible to offer JSON views of many metadata aggregations
    So the suggestion is there that the JSON timescale is intended to lead up to provision of a new access method. But then:

    these [JSON] views cannot, unfortunately, include those of TV channel and radio station schedules, or A-Z or genre and format listings for a channel or station
    That sounds like a description of the Extra data... but then it sounds like a description of almost all the ways that programme data could be provided, so I'm wondering what it DOES offer?

    If it was going to be useful, I had it in mind to look at the feasibility of building a tool that would translate the JSON responses into a data structure that was compatible with that produced by the current XML parser, so it could provide a drop-in replacement. I didn't get very far, unfortunately; I didn't even manage to work out how to get the Perl environment that LMS runs in, with all its CPAN modules, etc.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSammers View Post
    If it was going to be useful, I had it in mind to look at the feasibility of building a tool that would translate the JSON responses into a data structure that was compatible with that produced by the current XML parser, so it could provide a drop-in replacement. I didn't get very far, unfortunately; I didn't even manage to work out how to get the Perl environment that LMS runs in, with all its CPAN modules, etc.
    There are already libraries for JSON to Perl and I use them for other data such as the realtime metadata - so no need for any extra work.

    The base A-Z and schedules and genre feeds have all been junked - it doesn't matter whether you aslk for XML or JSON.

    For example both of these fail
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/programmes/a-z/by/a/player.xml
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/programmes/a-z/by/a/player.json
    but this works
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/programmes/a-z/by/a/player

    and these fail as well
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/genres/factual/artscultureandthemedia/player/episodes.xml
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/genres/factual/artscultureandthemedia/player/episodes.json
    but this works
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/genres/factual/artscultureandthemedia/player/episodes

    edit:

    Just for completeness the "new" form,at the BBC seem to be a cutdown html (i.e. excluide all library stuff) but with less info and the urls are
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/genres/factual/artscultureandthemedia/player/episodes.inc
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/programmes/a-z/by/a/player.inc
    Last edited by bpa; 2017-04-26 at 13:32.

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