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Thread: SPDIF is evil

  1. #21
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    back in the day, i recall the original Proceed transport and DAC (the PDT and PDP)had Toslink, COAX, and Balanced connections, as well as a proprietary Proceed connection that used a special glass cable (the connector was not toslink). i spent an afternoon listening, and thought the sound of the proceed connection and XLR were very close, with the latter being perhaps slightly better (and susceptible to tweaking with different cables). COAX and Toslink were 3rd and 4th, respectively.

    i understand the XLR *output* of the transporter is much better than either SPDIF output. is the same true of the XLR *input*?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netchord View Post
    i understand the XLR *output* of the transporter is much better than either SPDIF output. is the same true of the XLR *input*?
    Sean who designed the TP stated otherwise quite recently. The AES/EBU output is not as good (or at least no better) than the coax s/pdif, with the toslink the worst. How much this matters depends on your DAC.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
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  3. #23
    Founder, Slim Devices seanadams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    Sean who designed the TP stated otherwise quite recently. The AES/EBU output is not as good (or at least no better) than the coax s/pdif, with the toslink the worst. How much this matters depends on your DAC.
    Just to clarify I was talking about AES/EBU _in general_. There's nothing wrong with how I did Transporter's AES/EBU output. The interface is defective by definition, and therefore not possible to execute reasonably by anyone.

    Linky: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262. Also note JohnSwenson's comments about the high voltage.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanadams View Post
    Just to clarify I was talking about AES/EBU _in general_. There's nothing wrong with how I did Transporter's AES/EBU output. The interface is defective by definition, and therefore not possible to execute reasonably by anyone.

    Linky: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262. Also note JohnSwenson's comments about the high voltage.
    Oh no I didn't mean to imply you had! - I'm sure you did the best you could.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Themis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanadams View Post
    Just to clarify I was talking about AES/EBU _in general_. There's nothing wrong with how I did Transporter's AES/EBU output. The interface is defective by definition, and therefore not possible to execute reasonably by anyone.

    Linky: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71262. Also note JohnSwenson's comments about the high voltage.
    I understood it the right way, too. No worries Sean.
    SBT - North Star dac 192 - Croft 25Pre and Series 7 power - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Leigh View Post
    Sean who designed the TP stated otherwise quite recently. The AES/EBU output is not as good (or at least no better) than the coax s/pdif, with the toslink the worst. How much this matters depends on your DAC.
    my question was about the TP XLR *input*,, vs its other digital inputs. in my experience, the toslink definitely does not sound as good s Coak, but i've only been able to listen to the BNC input via an adapter, and the XLR input, not at all.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netchord View Post
    my question was about the TP XLR *input*,, vs its other digital inputs. in my experience, the toslink definitely does not sound as good s Coak, but i've only been able to listen to the BNC input via an adapter, and the XLR input, not at all.
    Inputs/outputs = same problem. AES/EBU is a flawed design. Sean has done his best. Stick with coax or BNC (which in theory is the best since at least the impedance can be properly matched - but not with an adaptor!).
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

  8. #28
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    I've been following the Touch info while still using my SB3 and Duet and was wondering...

    Sean (or John S. or Phil L. if you've measured it), what is the output return loss from the Touch SPDIF? And, if the numbers are available, over what bandwidth?

  9. #29
    Senior Member kphinney's Avatar
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    Towards common specifications for digital audio interface jitter

    I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyptony View Post
    I've been following the Touch info while still using my SB3 and Duet and was wondering...

    Sean (or John S. or Phil L. if you've measured it), what is the output return loss from the Touch SPDIF? And, if the numbers are available, over what bandwidth?
    I don't have the expensive equipment to measure this... and it will be cable/DAC dependant.

    I'm sure Pat from A.R.T. would have a view...

    It's generally a good idea to use a long s/pdif cable (but not too long) to avoid reflections messing with the transition timings. What difference this makes depends on the DAC.
    You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...
    Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
    Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
    Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.

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