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  1. #11
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    Glad you solved it!
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  2. #12

    Question re: quality

    Hi All, and thanks for the info above in this thread. I have been playing with Extractor today with some really nice results.

    A question comes to mind.....

    I'm ripping 2-ch tracks from Live Music DVD's that I have. These are AC3 encoded on the DVD's. I presume that they are also 24bit ? I've always associated AC3/DD as a lossy compression format but wonder if the 2-ch 24/48k files will actually be better than the 16/44k CD versions I have of the same shows.

    I'm playing back via SB+ and think the 3 or 4 I have done so far sound great.

    Any thoughts ?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpl View Post
    I'm ripping 2-ch tracks from Live Music DVD's that I have. These are AC3 encoded on the DVD's. I presume that they are also 24bit ? I've always associated AC3/DD as a lossy compression format but wonder if the 2-ch 24/48k files will actually be better than the 16/44k CD versions I have of the same shows.
    Most of the DVD rips I've done make 24/48 files, although I seem to recall one making 16/48 files, can't find it though.

    You can verify this by loading the files in foobar and selecting Properties.

    They sound OK but there doesn't appear to be any noticeable difference from a CD. Yes, DD is lossy. Lossless are special "MLP" tracks and new formats, Dolby TrueHD and the new DTS HD format (DTD-HD MA? Not sure.)
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  4. #14
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpl View Post
    Hi All, and thanks for the info above in this thread. I have been playing with Extractor today with some really nice results.

    A question comes to mind.....

    I'm ripping 2-ch tracks from Live Music DVD's that I have. These are AC3 encoded on the DVD's. I presume that they are also 24bit ? I've always associated AC3/DD as a lossy compression format but wonder if the 2-ch 24/48k files will actually be better than the 16/44k CD versions I have of the same shows.

    I'm playing back via SB+ and think the 3 or 4 I have done so far sound great.

    Any thoughts ?
    Many Music DVDs have a multichannel surround sound audio track (usually Dolby Digital or sometimes even DTS) and a 2 channel PCM track. Sometimes the 2 channel PCM track is just CD quality (16 bit/44.1 kHz) but other times this track contains higher resolution audio, such as 24 bit/48 kHz or 24 bit/96 kHz. The only way to find out is to put the DVD in the computer DVD drive and open DVD Audio Extractor and see what shows up. If there is a PCM audio track available try to rip that rather than the Dobly Digital or DTS track since, as you correctly stated, both of these are lossy formats.
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  5. #15
    Thanks. I'd spotted that some were 16/48, others 24/48 and some 2ch PCM.

    I guess I wonder if the 16/48 DD would be same/worse/better than a 16/44 PCM equivilant. In other words is PCM better in all cases than anything DD/AC3 at similar rates?

    Either way, it's sounding good so far. I wonder also if they sound better as I'm not diverting any brain power to watching the screen at the same time...

  6. #16
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpl View Post
    Thanks. I'd spotted that some were 16/48, others 24/48 and some 2ch PCM.

    I guess I wonder if the 16/48 DD would be same/worse/better than a 16/44 PCM equivilant. In other words is PCM better in all cases than anything DD/AC3 at similar rates?

    Either way, it's sounding good so far. I wonder also if they sound better as I'm not diverting any brain power to watching the screen at the same time...
    All Dolby digital use lossy compression. What you're seeing with 16/48 DD is just a higher sample rate, 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz, but the signal is still compressed to a maximum bit rate of 448 kbit/sec.

    To answer your question, with PCM the maximum bit rate is determined by the bit depth (16 or 24) and the sample rate (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, etc.) and for a 24 bit / 48 kHz file the maximum bit rate would be 1152 kbit/sec, which is more than double the maximum bit rate for the equivalent Dolby digital 24/48 file. All of which means that with the PCM file you're getting a lot more information which should mean slightly better sound. And don't forget that you should be converting the PCM files into flac files which will make them about half the size and if your using a SqueezeBox they can be streamed on your network as flac file, which means that they will use much less bandwidth than a raw wav (PCM) file.

    So, yes, if the music DVD contains PCM files, than use the PCM files instead of the Dolby digital files and rip them to flac.

    Please note: there is one good reason to use the Dolby digital files: if you want to make a 5.1 channel encoded flac file from the 6 channel Dolby digital file. You can stream a 5.1 channel encoded (using either Dolby digital or DTS) flac file to a SqueezeBox and if you connect the digital output of the SqueezeBox to the digital input a home theater receiver then the receiver will decode the signal and playback in 5.1 channels. Hope that I haven't confused you too much.
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  7. #17

    OK....got it now

    ralphpnj

    Many thanks for that. Makes more sense now. I'm savvy with .flacs and have just broken the 20,000 barrier with the help of these DVD's added to the mix. Will definitely keep an eye on the LPCM tracks.

    You whet my appetite with the 5.1 encoded flac files however. I have this from a few DTS CD's that I have and they work well.

    Is the info required for that searchable on this forum ?

    Also, I've had a play with DVDAExplorer to see if I can make sense of the DVD-A that I have. Is there much in common between creating 5.1 .flac from DVD and DVD-A?

    Hopefully this is not too far of-topic for this thread.

    cheers

  8. #18
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpl View Post
    ralphpnj

    Many thanks for that. Makes more sense now. I'm savvy with .flacs and have just broken the 20,000 barrier with the help of these DVD's added to the mix. Will definitely keep an eye on the LPCM tracks.

    You whet my appetite with the 5.1 encoded flac files however. I have this from a few DTS CD's that I have and they work well.

    Is the info required for that searchable on this forum ?

    Also, I've had a play with DVDAExplorer to see if I can make sense of the DVD-A that I have. Is there much in common between creating 5.1 .flac from DVD and DVD-A?

    Hopefully this is not too far of-topic for this thread.

    cheers
    I really can't answer these questions because I have never tried to make either a Dolby digital or DTS encoded multichannel flac file from a music video. I'm pretty sure that the files need to be either Dolby digital or DTS encoded rather than straight 5.1 channel flac files and hopefully someone else can better answer your questions.

    You see I have no reason to extract multichannel files since the only place where I can playback a multichannel file is on my home theater setup and if I want to hear the multichannel audio from the music video I can just play the video. Basically I only extract the audio from music videos (into simple 2 channel stereo) so that I can listen to it in other locations besides my home theater.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    I really can't answer these questions because I have never tried to make either a Dolby digital or DTS encoded multichannel flac file from a music video. I'm pretty sure that the files need to be either Dolby digital or DTS encoded rather than straight 5.1 channel flac files and hopefully someone else can better answer your questions.

    You see I have no reason to extract multichannel files since the only place where I can playback a multichannel file is on my home theater setup and if I want to hear the multichannel audio from the music video I can just play the video. Basically I only extract the audio from music videos (into simple 2 channel stereo) so that I can listen to it in other locations besides my home theater.
    I only rip DVDs with PCM tracks. 448kpbs for 6 channels compared to 1000+kpbs for just 2 channel PCM tells you how lossy AC3/DD is. It gets even worst if you try to matrix it back into 2 channel audio. 2 channel AC3 never being over 192kbps is no better then mp3 at the same rate so again avoid it.

    .02

  10. #20
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Flowerday View Post
    I only rip DVDs with PCM tracks. 448kpbs for 6 channels compared to 1000+kpbs for just 2 channel PCM tells you how lossy AC3/DD is. It gets even worst if you try to matrix it back into 2 channel audio. 2 channel AC3 never being over 192kbps is no better then mp3 at the same rate so again avoid it.

    .02
    Good point but you're just repeating what I wrote in post #16 above.
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