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  1. #1
    MrSinatra
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    how are RATINGS coded?

    i am working with a winamp developer on including support for ratings.

    currently, winamp only supports storing rating info in the winamp DB. what we are trying to do, is get winamp to support ratings kept INSIDE the file.

    so, i think the first place to start is WMP with mp3s.

    does anyone know the TXXX code WMP uses for storing this rating info? (1 to 5 i think)

    same question for itunes / media monkey, and other apps.

    also, does anyone know how WMP stores it in WMA files?

    and if possible, how winamp should support it in FLAC files?

    the goal is that if you set a rating in winamp, it will create or edit that rating to work in ALL apps, with a single click.

    thx.

  2. #2
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    i might have part of the answer here:

    http://mp3tag.de/en/help/main_tags.html

    so not TXXX at all, but POPM for both WMP and MM?

    does only MM support the - sign half star rating?

  3. #3
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    also still trying to figure out how flac does it... with vorbis? how?

  4. #4
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    i might have part of the answer here:

    http://mp3tag.de/en/help/main_tags.html

    so not TXXX at all, but POPM for both WMP and MM?

    does only MM support the - sign half star rating?
    Unfortunately the POPM tag is used differently in each application. I know I looked at the WMP and MediaMonkey implementation when I implemented the "Rating Tag" scanning module in the Custom Scan plugin and one of them stored it as a number between 0-100 and the other as a number between 0-255.

    I'm not sure what iTunes and other applications does.

    Unless something has changed recently SqueezeCenter doesn't support the POPM tag unless you install the Custom Scan plugin and use its "Rating Tag" scanning module.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    also still trying to figure out how flac does it... with vorbis? how?
    I don't think there is a standard, but the most frequent usage I've seen on these forum is to simply have a RATING tag that contains a number between 0-5 or between 0-100. SqueezeCenter works better with 0-100 since I think it will scan this automatically into the SqueezeCenter database. The SqueezeCenter database uses a value between 0-100 so using 0-5 in a RATING tag will probably cause strange behaviors.
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
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  5. #5
    MrSinatra
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    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Unfortunately the POPM tag is used differently in each application. I know I looked at the WMP and MediaMonkey implementation when I implemented the "Rating Tag" scanning module in the Custom Scan plugin and one of them stored it as a number between 0-100 and the other as a number between 0-255.
    yes, i am confused as well, according to this specific link:

    http://mp3tag.de/en/help/main_tags.html#POPM

    there are three POPM implementations. i don't know what app the first one is for?

    however, unlike what you are saying, WMP and Media Monkey seem to do it the same, (according to that link) except that only MM is mentioned supporting the - sign for "half a star" (yet i think WMP also supports half stars)

    so, what uses the 0 to 255 or 0 to 100 method?

    winamp btw seems to support 0/none to 5 but only in its own DB. basically, i just want winamp to support 0/none to 5 in the tag file as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    I'm not sure what iTunes and other applications does.
    maybe nothing, i only mentioned itunes b/c if it does anything its gonna need t be included. i hate itunes nd never use it. but i would like winamp to set ALL possible "tag methods" for ratings with one click.

    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    Unless something has changed recently SqueezeCenter doesn't support the POPM tag unless you install the Custom Scan plugin and use its "Rating Tag" scanning module.
    thats cool, i just want to get the ability into winamp first, then once its in let SC know a broad market consensus seems to be out there, (so it can at east store the data in the SC DB.

    Quote Originally Posted by erland View Post
    I don't think there is a standard, but the most frequent usage I've seen on these forum is to simply have a RATING tag that contains a number between 0-5 or between 0-100. SqueezeCenter works better with 0-100 since I think it will scan this automatically into the SqueezeCenter database. The SqueezeCenter database uses a value between 0-100 so using 0-5 in a RATING tag will probably cause strange behaviors.
    perhaps winamp should support it as:

    000
    010
    020 = one star
    030
    040
    050
    060 = three stars
    070
    080
    090
    100 = five stars

    so half stars can be represented?
    Last edited by MrSinatra; 2009-02-10 at 22:42.

  6. #6
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    also, i guess this begs the question of what values does WMP and MM actually use? 0-100? 0-255? 0-5? actual asterix and minus signs?

    do you know?

    how does your plugin work? with what tags and values?

    the winamp thread, scroll down a good ways:

    http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....0&pagenumber=2
    Last edited by MrSinatra; 2009-02-10 at 22:50.

  7. #7
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    however, unlike what you are saying, WMP and Media Monkey seem to do it the same, (according to that link) except that only MM is mentioned supporting the - sign for "half a star" (yet i think WMP also supports half stars)

    so, what uses the 0 to 255 or 0 to 100 method?
    I know they worked differently but I might remember it wrong, it might not have been 0-255 vs 0-100, it might have been that they used the 0-255 range differently.

    I've the following section in the "Rating Tag" scanning module code to make both compatible with the rating range used by the TrackStat plugin ($c is the POPM numeric value):
    Code:
    if($emailText =~ /Windows Media Player/) {
    	$ratingNumber = floor($c*100/255);
    	$ratingNumber = floor(20+$ratingNumber*80/100);
    }else {
    	$ratingNumber = floor($c*100/255);
    }
    As you can see, there are different conversions for WMP and other applications.

    TrackStat uses the following rating range when displaying 5 star ratings based on the 0-100 value in SqueezeCenter database:
    0-9 -> 0
    10-29 -> 1
    30-49 -> 2
    50-69 -> 3
    70-89 -> 4
    90-100 -> 5

    Standard SqueezeCenter always displays the ratings as x/100, it never displays them as 0-5 or 0-10 stars.

    Of course, whenever they decide to implement enhancement #142 they are also going to have to display them as stars because letting the user set ratings in a range of 0-100 will not work IMHO, stars is a must if you allow users to manually set ratings
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

  8. #8
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    how does your plugin work? with what tags and values?
    The "Rating Tag" scanning module in the "Custom Scan" plugin scans extra rating tags not supported by SqueezeCenter and writes them to the TrackStat plugin and to the standard SqueezeCenter database tables as a value between 0-100.

    For MP3 files it reads:
    - The POPM tag (converted to 0-100 value as described in my previous post)
    - A custom TXXXX tag if specified in the "Rating Tag" module settings, for example "RATING". This is converted to 0-100 by using a max rating value also configurable in the "Rating Tag" module settings.

    For other files it reads:
    - A custom tag if specified in the "Rating Tag" module settings, for example "RATING". This is converted to 0-100 by using a max rating value also configurable in the "Rating Tag" module settings.

    The custom tag name and max rating value paramters can only be configured once, so as an example you can't use different custom tags for MP3 and FLAC files. The typical case is probably that MP3 files read ratings from the POPM tag while FLAC files read it from a RATING tag(with a 0-100 numeric value).
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

  9. #9
    MrSinatra
    Guest
    found this link at your wiki:

    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph...rt_for_ratings

    i guess i'm confused by it all. why anyone [when this was conceived] would have used a scale beyond none/0-10 is beyond me, this should be easier to figure out.

    what i'd like to know is what it looks like inside say a mp3 made and rated by WMP? does WMP say:

    POPM=29 for one star or what? could it use an actual asterix?

  10. #10
    Senior Member erland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
    what i'd like to know is what it looks like inside say a mp3 made and rated by WMP? does WMP say:

    POPM=29 for one star or what? could it use an actual asterix?
    The ratings are stored as a number in the POPM tag together with some other information, you can't store the ratings as several * characters in the POPM tag.

    The specification can be found here:
    http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0#head-24...e129ff67970852
    Erland Isaksson (My homepage)
    (Developer of many plugins/applets (both free and commercial).
    If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third party plugin/applet development, consider purchasing some plugins)

    Interested in the future of music streaming ? ickStream - A world of music at your fingertips.

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