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  1. #11
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martyn View Post
    There is a cheap vinyl ripper - can't remember its name (I could look it up if you wish) - it's about $70. For the effort involved, I reckon it's worth spending more on a quality piece of equipment. Try "The Ripper" instead: http://www.hagtech.com/ripper.html. The kit version won't cost much more than your budget and will be top quality.
    Interesting product, but my Naim 72/hi-cap pre-amp already has a very high class phono stage so that part of the "ripper" isn't required. All I need is the ADC bit of it. There are plenty of similar USB and PCI devices out there that will do the job, so I am not short of options should the 2496 prove hopeless.

    In the meantime I will record a disk using the on-board sound card so I can use it for A/B comparison purposes later and definitively answer my own question.

    Am I sad or what? :-/
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

  2. #12
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    I'd say that with a front end of that quality, you owe it to yourself to get a decent soundcard.
    Wise words Clive. Can you have a chat with my wife?

    Following on from Pat's advice I have just noticed the M-audio Delta 44. If the ADC is in the break-out box rather than the PCI card, that would fit my specification for a hi-fi ADC to a tee (except for the use of jack plugs rather than RCA phonos).

    At only ú85 here I could probably swing it if I sold some of the contents of the loft on e-bay (irony alert).

    Hopefully it will do a better job of installing itself than the 2396 has.
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Interesting product, but my Naim 72/hi-cap pre-amp already has a very high class phono stage so that part of the "ripper" isn't required.
    Plus the fact that The Ripper's phono preamp is for MM cartridges (the input impedance of 47k is dead givaway), so would be of no use for your AT OC9.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Following on from Pat's advice I have just noticed the M-audio Delta 44. If the ADC is in the break-out box rather than the PCI card, that would fit my specification for a hi-fi ADC to a tee (except for the use of jack plugs rather than RCA phonos).
    If you can't get the 2496 working (and if it isn't because the card itself is faulty), then it's a driver incompatibility issue. In that case, my gut feeling would be that buying another M-Audio product might end you up in the same boat. (It's surely a possibility that all the Delta drivers could share some common core code). So I'd be looking at a different brand.

    By the way, I have nothing against M-Audio: I use a 2496 myself (driven from a Linn LP12/Ittok/Karma/Naim 42.5, as it happens), and it has never given me any trouble.

    As for the issue about having the analogue circuitry in an external box, consider this:
    1. Noise interference simply isn't a problem with modern PCI bus cards. I strongly suspect the reason for some of these devices having external boxes is more to do with the convenience factor when switching connections around.
    2. The cost of the external case is probably greater than the components inside it. Buying a single PCI card at the same price probably gets you better electronics.

    Edit: One last thing. Whatever soundcard you end up with, assuming it's a semi-pro or pro device then you'll almost certainly find that the tape feed from the NAC72 isn't hot enough, so you may need to use the main outputs instead (and use the 72's volume control to set the recording level).
    Last edited by cliveb; 2008-05-15 at 01:01.
    Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

  4. #14
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    ...I'd be looking at a different brand.
    That occurred to me too.

    By the way, I have nothing against M-Audio: I use a 2496 myself (driven from a Linn LP12/Ittok/Karma/Naim 42.5, as it happens), and it has never given me any trouble.
    Aha! a fellow old-time Brit audiophile :-)
    Judging by the price of s/h Naim amps, there are still a few of us about. I could sell my 42/140 for about ú350. That is ú100 more than I bought it for s/h in 1992!

    My old 42 has been brought back into service as the pre-amp for my 140 which is now amplifying the squeezebox in my main living room system after the Linn and 72/hi-cap were relocated to the lof... er audio editing suite ;-)

    To be honest (apart from a few crackles from the volume control) it sounds almost as good as the 72/hi-cap, particularly if it has been left on for a day or so.

    Edit: One last thing. Whatever soundcard you end up with, assuming it's a semi-pro or pro device then you'll almost certainly find that the tape feed from the NAC72 isn't hot enough, so you may need to use the main outputs instead (and use the 72's volume control to set the recording level).
    Ah right, I was struggling to find a way to adjust levels in the 2496 when it locked up the first time. You are right, the levels did seem a little low and there didn't seem to be any way to adjust them.

    I would need to use the output from the hi-cap then. Ordinary DIN->Phono i/o cables wouldn't work, so I would need a modified 4 pin "Snaic" cable with the main outputs terminated in a pair of phonos rather than another DIN. I might get my local Naim dealer to knock one up. They might even be standard issue as there must be plenty of others out there using Naim pre-amps with other brand power amps. Thanks for the tips!
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

  5. #15
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    It's working!

    Alls well that ends well. After some further PCI card juggling I finally got the 2496 to work.

    In case it is any use to anyone else, the trick was to reboot at least once after every change. I used Device Manager to "uninstall" all the PCI cards one at a time. Reboot. Reboot again. Go onto next card and repeat process. Once all the cards were out, shut down and add the 2496 back in first. Reboot. Check it is working. Shut down. Put back next card. Reboot. Check 2496 is working. Repeat with each card.

    In the end I worked out that it always seemed to stop working when I put in my USB 2.0 add-in card. So I left that card out. It is now sharing IRQ 18 with my PCI modem, but it does not seem to mind that. I now have no spare USB ports, but I have a hub if an extra one is needed.

    That will teach me to put in a sound card on the 13th!

    Ripped my first LP to WAV files using Spin-it-again this evening. Converted the files to FLAC using MediaMonkey. Edited the Tags using Tag-and-Rename.

    Excluding the recording time it took 40 minutes to process. I am sure I can get that down to around 20 with practice.

    The input levels seemed a bit low (max about 75%), but the end result FLAC files sound tremendous.

    Phew!
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

  6. #16
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    One last thing. Whatever soundcard you end up with, assuming it's a semi-pro or pro device then you'll almost certainly find that the tape feed from the NAC72 isn't hot enough, so you may need to use the main outputs instead (and use the 72's volume control to set the recording level).
    Thanks for the tip. You were right, the output from the tape socket on the Naim was too low. I bought a very nice 4pin bayonet lockable DIN -> 2 RCA phono cable from Flashback cables here in UK. I now have the output from the Hi-cap feeding into the M-audio 2496 with great success. Thanks!
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

  7. #17
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    Hi

    I have a Linn / Ittok / Karma front end & have just started recording some of my albums also using an audiphile 2496 (usb offboard model) via my laptop.

    I had the same issue with recording levels. I had already done a bit of DIY on my kit and installed my Naim cards inside my turnatable (powered remotely via HiCap) in the same way as Naim do with their prefix. Having done this much DIY I also decided to try & raise the output level a bit (it had always been a bit of a source of annoyance that switching from CD (SB3?) to phono resulted in such a large volume change.
    It is in fact a single resistor change on the phono boards. There are a few websites out there with these sort of mods detailed (google naim mods / neil mcbride). This way the volume is a bit more friendly when playing via my 82 and I can't detect any difference in quality.

    As a side benefit, I can plug my turtable directly into the M-audio i.e. minimum signal path & all that (...well thats the theory anyway, although I am using BNC to phono adapters...!!).

    Out of interest, what bit rate / depth are you recording at?
    Last edited by ntom; 2008-06-01 at 04:05.
    SB Touch, Perpetual Technologies P1-A / P3-A, Naim82 pre + 4xNaim135 powers, Martin Logan SL3's....(+ 2 more SB3's & 2 SB2's around the hus)

  8. #18
    Senior Member mswlogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Probably not quite the right forum, but would be interested if anyone could shed any light on this.

    I have just bought an M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound card to record LP -> Wave files -> FLAC to be played through a SB Duet setup.

    Unfortunately the 2496 locks the computer up (frozen screen & cursor needing hard reset) after about 10-20 seconds of recording - reliably, without fail.

    I have tried all sorts of solutions but have now all but given up on it and am preparing to RMA it, unless M-audio tech support come up with any miracle cure.

    What I would be interested to know from you lot is how much difference would I notice between a recording done through the 2496 and one done through my motherboard's on-board sound chip?

    I have always found the mantra "rubbish in, rubbish out" and "source first" to be generally true. So bearing in mind the source is top-notch (Linn LP12, Lingo, Ecos, ATOC9, Naim 72/Hi-cap) would I really notice any difference? If so how would it manifest itself?

    Thanks for your views!
    Try devices from EMU like 0404 USB which is very stable compared to anything M-Audio sells. The M-Audio hardware is fine but their drivers are just horrible. They make this in PC Card or USB version.

    The TASCAM US-144 is also excellent.

    For the USB versions, they require USB 2.0 for 24/96

    Most motherboard chips are junk.
    Last edited by mswlogo; 2008-06-08 at 07:19.
    Transporter/DuetController > SPDIF > Meridian G68 > DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000

    "It's the speakers and room stupid".

    My Transporter Setup
    Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMan View Post
    Thanks for the tip. You were right, the output from the tape socket on the Naim was too low. I bought a very nice 4pin bayonet lockable DIN -> 2 RCA phono cable from Flashback cables here in UK. I now have the output from the Hi-cap feeding into the M-audio 2496 with great success. Thanks!
    I also have a Naim NAC72/NAP 140 + Hi-Cap and I just bought the M-Audio 2496 last month. I have a NAS and Transporter and converted to FLAC my entire CD collection in 2007 but I'm just starting to take a look at my LP and 12inch collection and try to convert some rare LPs and 12inch to FLAC.
    As I was searching the forum I found your post and would like to know exactly what DIN/RCA cable I should buy from Flashbacksales. Just went to their website and don't know which one I should buy to connect the Hi-Cap to the M-Audio 2496. I also have another question, you have 4 outputs on the Hi-Cap (the first one is connected to the NAC72), which one do you use to connect to the M-Audio ?
    As your otiginal post is a bit old, I hope you're still around to respond
    Thanks in advance.

  10. #20
    Senior Member TheLastMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky View Post
    I also have a Naim NAC72/NAP 140 + Hi-Cap and I just bought the M-Audio 2496 last month. I have a NAS and Transporter and converted to FLAC my entire CD collection in 2007 but I'm just starting to take a look at my LP and 12inch collection and try to convert some rare LPs and 12inch to FLAC.
    As I was searching the forum I found your post and would like to know exactly what DIN/RCA cable I should buy from Flashbacksales. Just went to their website and don't know which one I should buy to connect the Hi-Cap to the M-Audio 2496. I also have another question, you have 4 outputs on the Hi-Cap (the first one is connected to the NAC72), which one do you use to connect to the M-Audio ?
    As your otiginal post is a bit old, I hope you're still around to respond
    Thanks in advance.
    Yes still here!

    Not at home at the moment so cannot answer you questions precisely but this is what I recall doing:

    The NAC72/Hi-cap is located in a study in the loft next to my PC. I don't have a power amp up there, just a Naim "Headline" headphone amp connected to the "tape" socket on the NAC72.

    The cable from the Hi-cap to the PC (M-Audio 2496) is a 4 pin DIN to 2 x RCA. At flashback sales it is this one:
    http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/acat...rca-cable.html
    Take care to choose the right length!

    In my case this goes into the Hi-cap "Socket 3" that would normally feed the power amp. The level of this is controlled by the volume control on the pre-amp. I needed to do this because the tape-out from the NAC72 is fixed at too low a level to drive the 2496 input properly.

    From the Hi-cap instructions it would appear that "Socket 2" is identical to "Socket 3" in that it carries both channels and is assumed to drive a power amp so you could connect the PC to that. However, if you are recording with the power amp switched on (not recommended) you will be adjusting the sound level while you adjust the recording level!

    "Socket 1" on the Hi-cap is labelled as "aux output" so I assume it is a line level fixed output designed to go to a headphone amp or similar. This should also work but being a fixed output you need to be careful that the output is high enough to drive the 2496.

    See below for the socket labels:
    Matt
    http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
    SqueezeBoxes: Two SB Duets (Living room and kitchen) and a piCorePlayer
    Server: Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official Synology package)
    Network: Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH access point
    Livingroom: Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Kitchen: Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
    Study: Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline

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