M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound card problem

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  • TheLastMan
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 1025

    M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound card problem

    Probably not quite the right forum, but would be interested if anyone could shed any light on this.

    I have just bought an M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound card to record LP -> Wave files -> FLAC to be played through a SB Duet setup.

    Unfortunately the 2496 locks the computer up (frozen screen & cursor needing hard reset) after about 10-20 seconds of recording - reliably, without fail.

    I have tried all sorts of solutions but have now all but given up on it and am preparing to RMA it, unless M-audio tech support come up with any miracle cure.

    What I would be interested to know from you lot is how much difference would I notice between a recording done through the 2496 and one done through my motherboard's on-board sound chip?

    I have always found the mantra "rubbish in, rubbish out" and "source first" to be generally true. So bearing in mind the source is top-notch (Linn LP12, Lingo, Ecos, ATOC9, Naim 72/Hi-cap) would I really notice any difference? If so how would it manifest itself?

    Thanks for your views!
    Matt
    SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
    Server: One of the piCorePlayers
    Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
    Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers
  • Pale Blue Ego
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 1265

    #2
    The on-board sound chip is probably going to be excessively noisy.

    ....just an idea about troubleshooting your problem....do you have the on-board sound disabled in your system BIOS? If it is not disabled, it may be interfering with the M-Audio soundcard.

    Comment

    • Pat Farrell
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2005
      • 4294

      #3
      M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound cardproblem

      TheLastMan wrote:
      > I have always found the mantra "rubbish in, rubbish out" and "source
      > first" to be generally true. So bearing in mind the source is
      > top-notch (Linn LP12, Lingo, Ecos, ATOC9, Naim 72/Hi-cap) would I
      > really notice any difference? If so how would it manifest itself?


      Motherboard chips are cheap and designed to play games. Many of them
      record only at 48KB, not 44.1

      A computer is a terrible place to have quality audio. Much too much noise.

      I'd check the pro-audio forums, someone there will have specifics to help


      --
      Pat Farrell


      Pat
      http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimse...msoftware.html

      Comment

      • TheLastMan
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2008
        • 1025

        #4
        Originally posted by pfarrell
        TheLastMan wrote:[color=blue]
        I'd check the pro-audio forums, someone there will have specifics to help
        Can you point to a good forum Pat?

        Are you saying I should use some kind of external ADC? If so, any suggestions?

        It would have to be cheap. My budget has changed somewhat since I bought the Linn and Naim!
        (wife, kids, mortgage etc)

        It would probably have to be bought with the proceeds of the RMA of the 2496 card at around £50 ($100).
        Matt
        SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
        Server: One of the piCorePlayers
        Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
        Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

        Comment

        • TheLastMan
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2008
          • 1025

          #5
          Originally posted by Pale Blue Ego
          The on-board sound chip is probably going to be excessively noisy.

          ....just an idea about troubleshooting your problem....do you have the on-board sound disabled in your system BIOS? If it is not disabled, it may be interfering with the M-Audio soundcard.
          Thanks for the thought, but don't waste time trying to solve the hardware problem - I have tried almost everything!

          At one point I had disabled all the on-board devices not essential to the operation of the computer (including the sound chip), removed every PCI add in card except the 2496 and unplugged all USB devices. No joy, the symptoms were just the same. I strongly suspect the card is faulty.

          About the only thing I have not done is reinstall the HAL, which is a nightmare only just short of reinstalling windows in terms of time taken to get back to a fully functioning PC.
          Matt
          SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
          Server: One of the piCorePlayers
          Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
          Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

          Comment

          • cliveb
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2005
            • 2071

            #6
            Originally posted by TheLastMan
            Unfortunately the 2496 locks the computer up (frozen screen & cursor needing hard reset) after about 10-20 seconds of recording - reliably, without fail.
            Assuming that you've done all the usual stuff like making sure you have the latest soundcard and motherboard drivers, it could simply be that there's some sort of incompatibility between the AP2496 and your motherboard. In that case, rather than beating your head against a brick wall, perhaps it would be easier to return the AP2496 and try an alternative, such as Echo Mia, EMU 0404, or similar. All of these "semi-pro" cards are very good and will give similar results. If money is no object you could go overboard for something like a DAL Card Deluxe or Lynx Two.

            Originally posted by TheLastMan
            What I would be interested to know from you lot is how much difference would I notice between a recording done through the 2496 and one done through my motherboard's on-board sound chip?
            It depends on the onboard sound. Most is pretty ropey, but some motherboards have surprisingly good onboard sound. However, I doubt you'll ever get one that sounds as good as the 2496.

            Originally posted by TheLastMan
            So bearing in mind the source is top-notch (Linn LP12, Lingo, Ecos, ATOC9, Naim 72/Hi-cap) would I really notice any difference? If so how would it manifest itself?
            I'd say that with a front end of that quality, you owe it to yourself to get a decent soundcard.

            Originally posted by TheLastMan
            Are you saying I should use some kind of external ADC?
            It certainly used to be the case that you should keep analogue circuitry outside the PC case, but many modern soundcards are amazingly resilient against the RFI. Don't let the fact that a card is internal put you off.
            Until recently: Transporter -> ATC SCM100A, now sold :-(
            House move forced change to: piCorePlayer(RPi2/HiFiBerry DIGI2 Pro) -> Meridian 218 -> Meridian M6

            Comment

            • eiret
              Member
              • May 2007
              • 93

              #7
              Try to only install drivers from M-Audio website, not all the contents on the cd. Only the drivers from the website.See if the computer will run then.

              Many years ago.
              I think i remember that there was something, a program or drivers from one of the cd`s that shoulod not be installed. It whould not work.

              Comment

              • Pat Farrell
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2005
                • 4294

                #8
                M-audio Audiophile 2496 sound cardproblem

                As others have said, start out making sure you have the 'best' drivers.
                For my Delta 1010s, there was about a year when the latest were not the
                best.

                TheLastMan wrote:
                > Can you point to a good forum Pat?




                Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.


                Audio Asylum - Pro Audio Asylum - Pro studio recording equipment and music production/industry.




                > Are you saying I should use some kind of external ADC? If so, any
                > suggestions?


                Well, I do, I have a couple of M-Audio Delta 1010, they put all the
                sensitive audio out in outboard racks, so only digital stuff is in the
                computer.

                But for converting LPs, one has to think of the budget


                --
                Pat Farrell


                Pat
                http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimse...msoftware.html

                Comment

                • TheLastMan
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 1025

                  #9
                  Originally posted by pfarrell

                  Well, I do, I have a couple of M-Audio Delta 1010, they put all the
                  sensitive audio out in outboard racks, so only digital stuff is in the
                  computer.

                  But for converting LPs, one has to think of the budget
                  At £350 - £400 in the UK, the 1010 does not look outrageously expensive given the amount of cash some people will part with for some nice cables or a MC cartridge. They look very "pro" too!

                  Shame I only have £50 then ;-)

                  I think there is a market for an "audiophile" ADC/DAC in a break out box like the 1010 but with RCA phono jacks for connection to normal amps / receivers and probably only two stereo pairs in each direction.

                  Looking at some recent reviews it seems that the problems with RFI on sound cards has been adressed pretty well and it is less of a problem than it used to be. Most of the external devices in my budget are USB and tend to have poor reviews relative to the PCI internal cards.

                  An M-audio tech support guy has just given me one more thing to try before I send back the 2496. He said 99% of these problems with the 2496 are IRQ related and if you can sort out the card with an IRQ of its own below 15 then it usually does the job. The trouble is that there is no way to directly control the IRQ of devices in Windows XP so it is all trial and error. I have been shuffling PCI cards about but with no change in the IRQ numbers allocated to each device, which was very frustrating.

                  Apparently I should have been rebooting the PC twice each time I moved a card, once with the card removed and then once again once it was plugged back in.

                  If that doesn't work he says I should send it back.

                  Wish me luck!
                  Matt
                  SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
                  Server: One of the piCorePlayers
                  Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
                  Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

                  Comment

                  • Martyn
                    Junior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 24

                    #10
                    There is a cheap vinyl ripper - can't remember its name (I could look it up if you wish) - it's about $70. For the effort involved, I reckon it's worth spending more on a quality piece of equipment. Try "The Ripper" instead: http://www.hagtech.com/ripper.html. The kit version won't cost much more than your budget and will be top quality.

                    Comment

                    • TheLastMan
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 1025

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Martyn
                      There is a cheap vinyl ripper - can't remember its name (I could look it up if you wish) - it's about $70. For the effort involved, I reckon it's worth spending more on a quality piece of equipment. Try "The Ripper" instead: http://www.hagtech.com/ripper.html. The kit version won't cost much more than your budget and will be top quality.
                      Interesting product, but my Naim 72/hi-cap pre-amp already has a very high class phono stage so that part of the "ripper" isn't required. All I need is the ADC bit of it. There are plenty of similar USB and PCI devices out there that will do the job, so I am not short of options should the 2496 prove hopeless.

                      In the meantime I will record a disk using the on-board sound card so I can use it for A/B comparison purposes later and definitively answer my own question.

                      Am I sad or what? :-/
                      Matt
                      SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
                      Server: One of the piCorePlayers
                      Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
                      Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

                      Comment

                      • TheLastMan
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 1025

                        #12
                        Originally posted by cliveb
                        I'd say that with a front end of that quality, you owe it to yourself to get a decent soundcard.
                        Wise words Clive. Can you have a chat with my wife?

                        Following on from Pat's advice I have just noticed the M-audio Delta 44. If the ADC is in the break-out box rather than the PCI card, that would fit my specification for a hi-fi ADC to a tee (except for the use of jack plugs rather than RCA phonos).

                        At only £85 here I could probably swing it if I sold some of the contents of the loft on e-bay (irony alert).

                        Hopefully it will do a better job of installing itself than the 2396 has.
                        Matt
                        SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
                        Server: One of the piCorePlayers
                        Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
                        Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

                        Comment

                        • cliveb
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 2071

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TheLastMan
                          Interesting product, but my Naim 72/hi-cap pre-amp already has a very high class phono stage so that part of the "ripper" isn't required.
                          Plus the fact that The Ripper's phono preamp is for MM cartridges (the input impedance of 47k is dead givaway), so would be of no use for your AT OC9.

                          Originally posted by TheLastMan
                          Following on from Pat's advice I have just noticed the M-audio Delta 44. If the ADC is in the break-out box rather than the PCI card, that would fit my specification for a hi-fi ADC to a tee (except for the use of jack plugs rather than RCA phonos).
                          If you can't get the 2496 working (and if it isn't because the card itself is faulty), then it's a driver incompatibility issue. In that case, my gut feeling would be that buying another M-Audio product might end you up in the same boat. (It's surely a possibility that all the Delta drivers could share some common core code). So I'd be looking at a different brand.

                          By the way, I have nothing against M-Audio: I use a 2496 myself (driven from a Linn LP12/Ittok/Karma/Naim 42.5, as it happens), and it has never given me any trouble.

                          As for the issue about having the analogue circuitry in an external box, consider this:
                          1. Noise interference simply isn't a problem with modern PCI bus cards. I strongly suspect the reason for some of these devices having external boxes is more to do with the convenience factor when switching connections around.
                          2. The cost of the external case is probably greater than the components inside it. Buying a single PCI card at the same price probably gets you better electronics.

                          Edit: One last thing. Whatever soundcard you end up with, assuming it's a semi-pro or pro device then you'll almost certainly find that the tape feed from the NAC72 isn't hot enough, so you may need to use the main outputs instead (and use the 72's volume control to set the recording level).
                          Last edited by cliveb; 2008-05-15, 09:01.
                          Until recently: Transporter -> ATC SCM100A, now sold :-(
                          House move forced change to: piCorePlayer(RPi2/HiFiBerry DIGI2 Pro) -> Meridian 218 -> Meridian M6

                          Comment

                          • TheLastMan
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 1025

                            #14
                            Originally posted by cliveb
                            ...I'd be looking at a different brand.
                            That occurred to me too.

                            By the way, I have nothing against M-Audio: I use a 2496 myself (driven from a Linn LP12/Ittok/Karma/Naim 42.5, as it happens), and it has never given me any trouble.
                            Aha! a fellow old-time Brit audiophile :-)
                            Judging by the price of s/h Naim amps, there are still a few of us about. I could sell my 42/140 for about £350. That is £100 more than I bought it for s/h in 1992!

                            My old 42 has been brought back into service as the pre-amp for my 140 which is now amplifying the squeezebox in my main living room system after the Linn and 72/hi-cap were relocated to the lof... er audio editing suite ;-)

                            To be honest (apart from a few crackles from the volume control) it sounds almost as good as the 72/hi-cap, particularly if it has been left on for a day or so.

                            Edit: One last thing. Whatever soundcard you end up with, assuming it's a semi-pro or pro device then you'll almost certainly find that the tape feed from the NAC72 isn't hot enough, so you may need to use the main outputs instead (and use the 72's volume control to set the recording level).
                            Ah right, I was struggling to find a way to adjust levels in the 2496 when it locked up the first time. You are right, the levels did seem a little low and there didn't seem to be any way to adjust them.

                            I would need to use the output from the hi-cap then. Ordinary DIN->Phono i/o cables wouldn't work, so I would need a modified 4 pin "Snaic" cable with the main outputs terminated in a pair of phonos rather than another DIN. I might get my local Naim dealer to knock one up. They might even be standard issue as there must be plenty of others out there using Naim pre-amps with other brand power amps. Thanks for the tips!
                            Matt
                            SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
                            Server: One of the piCorePlayers
                            Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
                            Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

                            Comment

                            • TheLastMan
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 1025

                              #15
                              It's working!

                              Alls well that ends well. After some further PCI card juggling I finally got the 2496 to work.

                              In case it is any use to anyone else, the trick was to reboot at least once after every change. I used Device Manager to "uninstall" all the PCI cards one at a time. Reboot. Reboot again. Go onto next card and repeat process. Once all the cards were out, shut down and add the 2496 back in first. Reboot. Check it is working. Shut down. Put back next card. Reboot. Check 2496 is working. Repeat with each card.

                              In the end I worked out that it always seemed to stop working when I put in my USB 2.0 add-in card. So I left that card out. It is now sharing IRQ 18 with my PCI modem, but it does not seem to mind that. I now have no spare USB ports, but I have a hub if an extra one is needed.

                              That will teach me to put in a sound card on the 13th!

                              Ripped my first LP to WAV files using Spin-it-again this evening. Converted the files to FLAC using MediaMonkey. Edited the Tags using Tag-and-Rename.

                              Excluding the recording time it took 40 minutes to process. I am sure I can get that down to around 20 with practice.

                              The input levels seemed a bit low (max about 75%), but the end result FLAC files sound tremendous.

                              Phew!
                              Matt
                              SqueezeBoxes: 2 x piCorePlayers
                              Server: One of the piCorePlayers
                              Livingroom: pCP, Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/110/Headline amp, B&W CM2 speakers
                              Dining: piCorePlayer, Steljes NS3 active speakers

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