Roadmap for Jive/SqueezePlay/SqueezeOS/Softsqueeze/SqueezeSlave

[Nikhil]

Now that SC 7 has gone gold, and the Duet has been released, I have a few questions about the future:

1) When will the controller be available for purchase on its own? I like the idea of the Duet Receiver, but I don't really need it just as yet. The controller on the other hand will be great for my trusty SB2.

2) When can we expect audio out capability from the Jive/SqueezePlay software?

3) I've asked this before in a different thread, but I will ask it again. I've built and used the Jive/SqueezePlay application on Mac and Win, and I really like it. From the wiki, it is clear that SqueezePlay is designed to power a wide range of display types. Has anyone built it on platforms other than Win, Mac and Linux? I'm specially interested in mobile or tablet platforms such as the Nokia Maemo platform, Symbian S60/UIQ, Windows Mobile, PalmOS, and of course the iPhone/iPod Touch Mac OS platform with its recently released SDK.

4) Non-phone devices like the Maemo N770 also raise another interesting possibility. Since SqueezeOS works as a base OS containing the SqueezePlay app on the Duet controller, can it also potentially be used in the same way on these other devices? i.e. have it available as a boot option, thereby turning the device into a dedicated controller for SD hardware/software emulators.

5) As I understand SD/Logitech's licensing of the Jive code, the source is freely available, but users cannot distribute compiled binaries. Is that correct? In that case will SD/Logitech offer binaries for a set of chosen platforms for a fee or otherwise. I am thinking along the lines of SlingMedia's SlingPlayer software for their SlingBox place shifting platform. The SlingPlayer Desktop software is free for Windows and Mac, but the SlingPlayer Mobile applications for Symbian S60, Windows Mobile, and PalmOS cost $29. I personally run SlingPlayer Mobile on my Nokia N95, and find it very useful. I think this approach would be fair one for SqueezePlay too.

6) Will SqueezePlay offer bit perfect playback, once audio is available?

7) Will SqueezePlay have a headless mode like SqueezeSlave?

8) Has SD/Logitech considered offering a headless version of SqueezePlay for use on devices like AppleTV, SlingMedia's SlingCatcher, and other devices of their ilk? While this approach might run the risk of cannibalizing into the Duet Receiver's sales, if its sold for a reasonable cost, it might offset that loss. I would personally be very interested in this approach. User's often complain that they don't like to use devices like AppleTV for music because it involves turning on some sort of display. Yet others keep asking for video support on their Squeezeboxes and Sonos players. Up to now, the only solution has been to have separate devices for audio and video. Now that the Duet controller is available, users could get the best of both worlds without needing two devices. I will probably stick with my SB2 or even get a Transporter for my main listening area, however in my TV room, I can easily see myself using an AppleTV like device for audio purposes running a headless bit-perfect audio capable SqueezePlay (which might be paid software) controlled either with a Duet controller or another instance of SqueezePlay (again could be paid software) running on my Nokia N95. When I want to switch to video/photos, I could switch off the audio on the controller, and use the native AppleTV controller through the display or I could even use the IR on the Duet controller.

9) What is the future of SoftSqueeze and SqueezeSlave?

Wow... that turned out to be a much longer post than I had planned. Looking forward to hearing what people have to say.

[funkstar]

1) When will the controller be available for purchase on its own? I like the idea of the Duet Receiver, but I don't really need it just as yet. The controller on the other hand will be great for my trusty SB2.

Eventually When the Controller and Reciever were first announced, it was said that the Duet package would be in general retain, but the seperate items may not be as widely available. This may have changed, we'll have to wait and see.

2) When can we expect audio out capability from the Jive/SqueezePlay software?

No timescale has been put on this, at least not one that is in the public domain.

3) 4) & 5)

This is all things that have crossed my mind too. I would love to see a WindowsMobile 6 client so I can stream over my unlimited 3G data connection and then stream the audio over BlueTooth to either my car stereo or wireless headphones. I would gladly pay for this client too.

Of course this is why the licensing for SqueezeOS doesn't permit you to distribute binaries, it is perfectly feasable that someone could release versions for smartphones and other devices, negating the need for a Controller.

6) Will SqueezePlay offer bit perfect playback, once audio is available?

By bit perfect, I take it you mean the ability to stream lossless audio? I don't see why not. Having said that, I would suspect that most uses for it would be accessing the music remotely, so streamed MP3 would be far more common.

7) Will SqueezePlay have a headless mode like SqueezeSlave?

Pass, don't know. Should be possible though

8)

Can't answer this one

9) What is the future of SoftSqueeze and SqueezeSlave?

Well they are both open source, so anyone can really take up the batton and continue development, but i don't think they will be developed directly by the Development Team. SC won't break compatability though, so SoftSqueeze and SqueezeSlave will still continue to work in future versions.

[Landhoff]

I support especially the third question or requirement if you like from Nikhil - I am really eager to see Symbian S60 appl. that substitutes the Squeezebox Controller.

Now that would be a really usefull appl. as a contrast to the numerous useless appl. out there...!
And as far as I can see the hw will support it - why bother with another "table-stick" if you can do the job with what you already have?!

[Skunk]

Now that would be a really usefull appl. as a contrast to the numerous useless appl. out there...!

I'm not sure if you mean there are a lot of useless apps available for your phone or for SqueezeCenter , but SqueezePlay on the Symbian S60 would be more useless to me than just about every other plugin I can think of (because I don't have one). There are three or four devices mentioned in this short thread, which would turn into a lot of porting and square-peg-round-hole fitting to make it even work with varied input methods and screen sizes. E.g. you wouldn't *want* SqueezePlay on an iPhone, you'd want something designed for it like iPeng etc. If there is no native app available for your particular phone, then perhaps it's just not popular enough. There are two for iPhone :-\

At the risk of PETA showing up for beating a dead horse, I don't particularly want to use my phone as a remote anyway.

[Landhoff]

Just for record - I was refering to the broad variety of more or less useless apps for Symbian devices. The appl./plugins for SD products I have very limited experience with.

Regarding the availability of an appl. already or rather the lack of the same, you're right...and wrong. Right because there obviously still isn't one and wrong because it isn't because of lack of requirement/need.
Not sure what the market shares look like but i guess 10/1 in the favour of Symbian devices over Iphones isn't that much off.

The thing is that the Iphone is the most hyped piece of consumer electronic the past 10 years...no make that ever!!!
And I admit it is neat, but not that neat - I mean compared to the attention it gets. Remember it is still just a phone - it doesn't add any functionality only stile and GUI enhancements.
Everybody is standing on eachothers toes to get an appl. out there and get a piece of the "glorious Iphone attention".

It's just out of balance if you ask me. So I am waiting for an appl. for my Symbian device...just like many others. And if it could give me SBC look-a-like functionality and spare me the investment in another "stick for the table" I would be a happy man.

[sander]

In the event any roadmap is in the process. I'd like to put in a vote for my most pressing feature in SqueezePlay and that's syncing.

Syncing is much better in 7.3. Flawless for me with everything but Podcasts, which still restart when a new player is added, but the software/remote playback still doesn't sync correctly.

[andyg]

On Jan 19, 2009, at 3:02 PM, sander wrote:

>
> In the event any roadmap is in the process. I'd like to put in a vote
> for my most pressing feature in SqueezePlay and that's syncing.
>
> Syncing is much better in 7.3. Flawless for me with everything but
> Podcasts, which still restart when a new player is added, but the
> software/remote playback still doesn't sync correctly.

It is impossible to support perfect syncing in a software player. The
sound card, audio driver, and OS are variables out of our control. It
may work for you, it may not. What someone probably should do is
create a wiki page with OS/sound card combinations that people have
had success with. It could also maybe have some tips about using ASIO
for example.

[sander]

On Jan 19, 2009, at 3:02 PM, sander wrote:
It is impossible to support perfect syncing in a software player. The
sound card, audio driver, and OS are variables out of our control. It
may work for you, it may not. What someone probably should do is
create a wiki page with OS/sound card combinations that people have
had success with. It could also maybe have some tips about using ASIO
for example.

OK, given that, two questions:

The known quantity of the controller should make syncing flawless, or at least equivalent to a hardware player, shouldn't it?

Is playing on the actual server less of an issue? You would still have the driver variables, but I would think given the lack of network traffic it would be a more controlled environment.

TIA

[awy]

Yes, perfect sync on the Controller should be possible; the network issues are not really relevant. But there are some other, difficult audio problems on the Controller which need to be worked out first.

On the server there are more variables. An old O/S and old, cheap sound card seem to be the best options. The newer anything is the more variable buffering that gets introduced and the less accurate is the position reporting on which sync relies.

[Skunk]

What someone probably should do is
create a wiki page with OS/sound card combinations that people have
had success with. It could also maybe have some tips about using ASIO
for example.

I've temporarily added it to the SqueezePlay wiki, but should probably move it to its own page one the table grows or more info is added. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlay

Is ASIO usable with SqueezePlay and/or is this something that's being considered as a future enhancement?
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10483 [ASIO support enhancement request]