Building Playlists

[larrettp]

A suggestion on the subject of Playlists. Will there EVER be a method of creating Playlists 'offline' - in other words, without affecting the list you are currently listening to? This would be an obvious function as you don't necessarily want to listen to the list you are creating (for a future party, for instance).

Building Playlists is also VERY time-consuming. I like to have large Playlists shuffled by song (currently about 7500 songs). This takes AGES. Since a Playlist is, to all intents and purposes just a list of filenames, types and locations, why isn't this information stored and indexed when the library is scanned (which takes ages in itself). What is the point of the library scan if the locations are validated again when the songs/albums are added to the Playlist.

Saving a Playlist also takes ages.

In fact these delays are the single biggest complaint of the entire system. When it is working, it is very impressive but it takes far too long to set up.

Any answers?

[aubuti]

A suggestion on the subject of Playlists. Will there EVER be a method of creating Playlists 'offline' - in other words, without affecting the list you are currently listening to? This would be an obvious function as you don't necessarily want to listen to the list you are creating (for a future party, for instance).

Here's a workaround for you, although it is far from elegant. Open up a SoftSqueeze player, and build the playlist on that while the music you're listening to is playing on your real SB. You could build the playlist using the web ui or using the simulated remote interface for SoftSqueeze.

Building Playlists is also VERY time-consuming. I like to have large Playlists shuffled by song (currently about 7500 songs). This takes AGES. Since a Playlist is, to all intents and purposes just a list of filenames, types and locations, why isn't this information stored and indexed when the library is scanned (which takes ages in itself). What is the point of the library scan if the locations are validated again when the songs/albums are added to the Playlist.

Saving a Playlist also takes ages.

In fact these delays are the single biggest complaint of the entire system. When it is working, it is very impressive but it takes far too long to set up.

Any answers?

Not sure I have answers for you here, except that Random Mix (or Erland's plugins for SQL Playlist and Random Playlist) are *much* more efficient than shuffle play for randomizing your tracks.

I don't get your point about scanning. Playlists are done as part of the scan, and they have to be redone when doing a _complete_ clear and rescan because sometimes people move or rename files, so the scan has to check that info.

I've never found saving playlists to take long, but I've never had playlists of more than ~200 tracks. Are you doing 1000s of tracks? If not, maybe something else isn't quite right with your system.

Finally, consider setting up your playlists in something other than SqueezeCenter, because SC really doesn't have the greatest interface for it. There is a lot of other software that can create SC-readable playlists, like MusicIP, Winamp, etc.

[larrettp]

Nice idea about using softSqueezze instead but I am creating Playlists of about 7500 tracks. Performance REALLY drops off here.

My point about scanning is that the music library is scanned at the time for names, locations etc. and any new or changed Playlists. Why, then is this information not instantly available (via indexes, possibly) when you come to use them later.

SqueezeCenter is no improvement at all here, in fact it seems worse on the ReadyNas platform - I know it's a beta release at the moment but it isn't offering any solutions to the performance problems.

[aubuti]

Do you have shuffle mode on? In other words, are you reshuffling those 7500 track playlists every time you load them? If so, then that (i.e., the reshuffling) is what is taking so long -- not re-indexing the tracks. Shuffle is pretty inefficient, and the inefficiency is amplified tremendously when you shuffle huge lists, especially on an underpowered server like the ReadyNAS.

If you haven't checked out Erland's relevant plugins (SQL Playlist and Dynamic Playlist) then you really should. You can get very specific about what tracks/artists/genres/etc to include or exclude.

And if you want to stick with shuffle, you do realize that you can save the shuffled list? Loading the playlist without reshuffling should be very quick, even on a ReadyNAS.

[larrettp]

Yes, I do have shuffle on and, to my mind, the system should be able to cope with this. I want all my favourite songs available at any time in a random order.

I run my SB3's wired as well but it doesn't make a lot of difference. The fact is that the web interface takes SOOO long to load and that is running on the ReadyNas. This seems to be a universal problem and NOBODY is addressing it. Obviously, the database structure is inefficient (I am a DB2 Database Administrator professionally so I can recognise where the problems lies). If that is coupled with inefficient SQL, the results are bound to be slow. The size of the database should be irrelevant if proper indexing is used.

Why hasn't somebody resolved these problem sooner - they existed in v6. Just making the interface prettier doesn't disguise bad programming.

Thanks for the tip about the plug-ins. Where do I find them and how do I install them. Also, why aren't they supplied as standard?

[radish]

Yes, I do have shuffle on and, to my mind, the system should be able to cope with this. I want all my favourite songs available at any time in a random order.

You're running on a very underpowered piece of hardware, there are limits.

This seems to be a universal problem and NOBODY is addressing it.

How do you know nobody is addressing it? AFAIK quite a bit of work has been done on the DB and general data layer in the last couple of versions.

Obviously, the database structure is inefficient (I am a DB2 Database Administrator professionally so I can recognise where the problems lies). If that is coupled with inefficient SQL, the results are bound to be slow. The size of the database should be irrelevant if proper indexing is used.

I'm sure everyone would benefit from your expertise if you fancied doing some optimization!

Thanks for the tip about the plug-ins. Where do I find them and how do I install them. Also, why aren't they supplied as standard?

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SlimServerPlugins

They're not supplied as standard because they're not part of the default supported package. That's what plugin means.

[aubuti]

I want all my favourite songs available at any time in a random order.

Even using the Random Mix option that comes standard with SC7 (and came standard with SS6.x) would be a better way of achieving what you are trying to do than using shuffle. Just create a "Favorites" genre, include that in the Genre tag of your favorite tracks, and let Random Mix do its thing on that genre. I understand your frustration that it's not working the way you have in mind, but have you tried the alternative?

The plugins do essentially the same thing, but allow more fine tuning of what tracks are considered for selection.

[larrettp]

Thanks for that. I am running the ReadyNas with 1Gb of RAM. Why is it still underpowered and do you have any suggestions for how I can get more out of it, please?

The plugins only describe installation instructions for Windows, Mac or Linux. Can they be installed on ReadyNas and, if so, do you know how?

[aubuti]

I honestly don't know whether shuffling is more CPU intensive or memory intensive, but 1GB of RAM should be plenty. What processor does your ReadyNAS have?

Re plugins, do you have telnet or ssh access to the ReadyNAS? If so, you just need to copy the plugins to the correct directory (preserving the directory structure) and re-start SC. Then you control the plugin settings via the web ui. I don't know where the "correct place" is on a ReadyNAS. For my LinkStation it's /usr/local/slimserver/Plugins/ and for my x86 debian box it's something different (maybe /usr/share/squeezecenter/Plugins/ ?).

If you don't have telnet or ssh access, you should check with whatever vendor provides the SC installation module to see if they support plugins.

In the meantime, try the stock Random Mix, which you already have available.

[radish]

There's a lot more info about running SC on the ReadyNas in the third party hardware forum.